Hi all, and greetings to the majority of you, who I guess are in the US... I'm on the south coast of the UK, and have been motorboating seriously for several years, with about 10000 sea miles behind me, including some long passages. Last year, I got into sailing a bit, and spent time on Yamaha and Dehler yachts, before buying a (tiny) van de Stadt Splinter of my own. She's a deep fin keel boat, with impeccable handling and manners, very competent in rough weather, and a bit of a 'classic'. Looking around for a yacht to buy, (and partly because we'll soon be paying enormously more for diesel here in the UK, which means that I sold my motor boat this summer), I found a nice Legend 40.5, which seems to offer massive accommodation, but leaves me wondering a bit about how she'll be in the rough stuff (shoal draft keel, abeit with a big-ish bulb and fin), and how well she'll point to windward. Any thoughts and advice gratefully received!
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She Will Do Fine
I can point as well as some deep keel production boats. This, however, since I put a new suit of sails on her and a folding prop. (You do have to spend all those pounds you'll save on diesel, right?) She is not at all tender. While a shoal will not be as good as a deep fin, the bulb winged keel is a close second. I have had mine going on six years and have trophied twice in a 100 nm race. She also powers well. See the owner reviews. Look under "The Boats" tab on the home page. Rick D.
I can point as well as some deep keel production boats. This, however, since I put a new suit of sails on her and a folding prop. (You do have to spend all those pounds you'll save on diesel, right?) She is not at all tender. While a shoal will not be as good as a deep fin, the bulb winged keel is a close second. I have had mine going on six years and have trophied twice in a 100 nm race. She also powers well. See the owner reviews. Look under "The Boats" tab on the home page. Rick D.
Intended Use?
Northern Sky, Where do you plan to take your next boat? English Channel? Bay of Biscay? Mostly day sailing and short cruises or some longer stuff? Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust h37.5
Northern Sky, Where do you plan to take your next boat? English Channel? Bay of Biscay? Mostly day sailing and short cruises or some longer stuff? Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust h37.5
The 40.5 charges to windward......
I have a 1997 model with the original sails and I find that I can point to about 33 degrees off the apparent wind. I have been in 35-38 kt winds with 4' seas and while I find those conditions a handful, the boat performed very well. Without knowing exactly what your sailing goals are, I can't make a blanket recommendation. However, our 40.5 does everything we need. She is very comfortable and roomy. We do coastal sailing for 3-4 days at a time, and do a 1-2 week cruise of 200-300 miles each year. We have also done three 4-5 week cruises to Maine and two 4-5 week cruises to the Chesapeake bay.
I have a 1997 model with the original sails and I find that I can point to about 33 degrees off the apparent wind. I have been in 35-38 kt winds with 4' seas and while I find those conditions a handful, the boat performed very well. Without knowing exactly what your sailing goals are, I can't make a blanket recommendation. However, our 40.5 does everything we need. She is very comfortable and roomy. We do coastal sailing for 3-4 days at a time, and do a 1-2 week cruise of 200-300 miles each year. We have also done three 4-5 week cruises to Maine and two 4-5 week cruises to the Chesapeake bay.
Thanks!
Thanks for the help so far... I'm planning to cruise the south and east coasts of the UK, and French, Beligian, German, and Dutch waters. Longer trips will add up to about eight weeks a year, and I plan also to do quite a lot of weekend trips, typically to the Channel Islands or near France... Usually I'll be cruising with one other person on board, sometimes with more. Therefore, I need to be certain I'm buying a boat that will take rough weather well, and go to windward... Reading the owners' reviews here has been helpful, but not all accounts agree, and I'm also aware that people are unlikely to shout out loud about their boat's shortcomings! Please keep the information coming - I'm very impressed by the site here, so far.
Thanks for the help so far... I'm planning to cruise the south and east coasts of the UK, and French, Beligian, German, and Dutch waters. Longer trips will add up to about eight weeks a year, and I plan also to do quite a lot of weekend trips, typically to the Channel Islands or near France... Usually I'll be cruising with one other person on board, sometimes with more. Therefore, I need to be certain I'm buying a boat that will take rough weather well, and go to windward... Reading the owners' reviews here has been helpful, but not all accounts agree, and I'm also aware that people are unlikely to shout out loud about their boat's shortcomings! Please keep the information coming - I'm very impressed by the site here, so far.
Also consider the 410
Being that you are considering the 40.5, a strong suggestion would be to also look at a 410. My experience with this model has been nothing but positive. It is a sturdy and stable platform in many conditions. She'll sail strongly once the apparent winds exceed 10 to 11 knots. I've found that sailing into the wind is quite pleasureable considering her displacement. I added a new sail suit and a feathering prop which quickly added to the boat's capabilities. You will not be sorry should you end up buying. As I recall a 410 participated in last year's Sydney to Hobart race. Take a look at my web site for more. Best wishes, John Richard s/v Jack's Place
Being that you are considering the 40.5, a strong suggestion would be to also look at a 410. My experience with this model has been nothing but positive. It is a sturdy and stable platform in many conditions. She'll sail strongly once the apparent winds exceed 10 to 11 knots. I've found that sailing into the wind is quite pleasureable considering her displacement. I added a new sail suit and a feathering prop which quickly added to the boat's capabilities. You will not be sorry should you end up buying. As I recall a 410 participated in last year's Sydney to Hobart race. Take a look at my web site for more. Best wishes, John Richard s/v Jack's Place
Hunter 410
Northern Sky, I generally second John Richard's comments about the Hunter 410. I bought a new 410 in 1998. It has handled with no problems offshore conditions in the Gulf of Mexico of 25-30 knts, seas 6-8 ft. and bay conditions of 35-50 knots with steep chop and waves washing over the boat. If I was going offshore in the North Sea I would make some modifications to the 410 ( the same would apply to the 40.5 I believe). Three important modifications come to mind. First, the cabin is large-add 3-4 handholds in strategic places. Second, the open cabin has a lot of stuff unsecured, especially in the galley area. Figure out a way to secure everything-dishes, cups, look at the way the cabinets are secured-are they strong enough, tie down the batteries better, secure all of the plywood hatches on the sole, etc. Third, the 410 and I believe the 40.5 have two large stern lockers that open directly into the boat. They are not strongly secured. If one is ripped off by a wave the boat will be very vulnerable. Find a way to strongly secure these locker lids, including reinforcing the lids themselves with additional fiberglass. I am sure that there are other modifications that could be made. These are the ones I can think of now. Overall, I have been impressed with the strenght of the 410 (I assume the strength is about the same for the 40.5.) I have owned 4 boats: three heavy displacement full keel or keel with cutway forefoots, including a Southern Cross 31. All had good and bad points. The 410 is the best all-around boat I have owned. I believe it is as strong as my other boats and about as seaworthy - but all boats require some modifications to make them safer. That is equally true for the 410. Best wishes, John
Northern Sky, I generally second John Richard's comments about the Hunter 410. I bought a new 410 in 1998. It has handled with no problems offshore conditions in the Gulf of Mexico of 25-30 knts, seas 6-8 ft. and bay conditions of 35-50 knots with steep chop and waves washing over the boat. If I was going offshore in the North Sea I would make some modifications to the 410 ( the same would apply to the 40.5 I believe). Three important modifications come to mind. First, the cabin is large-add 3-4 handholds in strategic places. Second, the open cabin has a lot of stuff unsecured, especially in the galley area. Figure out a way to secure everything-dishes, cups, look at the way the cabinets are secured-are they strong enough, tie down the batteries better, secure all of the plywood hatches on the sole, etc. Third, the 410 and I believe the 40.5 have two large stern lockers that open directly into the boat. They are not strongly secured. If one is ripped off by a wave the boat will be very vulnerable. Find a way to strongly secure these locker lids, including reinforcing the lids themselves with additional fiberglass. I am sure that there are other modifications that could be made. These are the ones I can think of now. Overall, I have been impressed with the strenght of the 410 (I assume the strength is about the same for the 40.5.) I have owned 4 boats: three heavy displacement full keel or keel with cutway forefoots, including a Southern Cross 31. All had good and bad points. The 410 is the best all-around boat I have owned. I believe it is as strong as my other boats and about as seaworthy - but all boats require some modifications to make them safer. That is equally true for the 410. Best wishes, John
After the sea trial...
Well, we had the sea trial on Sunday in blustery conditions, about twenty knots of wind, and the usual Portsmouth entrance mix of swell and chop. Two reefs in the main, and what looked and felt like the right amount of headsail. Things that struck me: - The boat wasn't fast, achieving about 5 and a half knots maximum on the log (inspecting the hull afterwards showed a good amount of fouling but not enough to explain the low speeds achieved) - The helm was exceedingly heavy, much heavier than any yacht I've helmed previously. Static friction wasn't the problem, rather the rudder feels badly balanced and too small. - The rudder seemed to stall very easily - When heeled, the angle of the cockpit sole makes standing very difficult. The cant is convex rather than concave, viewed from above. - Moving across the coachroof looked hazardous, as there are no hand-holds - Both main and headsail were more worn that I expected (big money to spend right away) - A few things didn't work, or had been removed and not replaced (the lines for the Dutchman reefing, for example). Why do owners try to sell their boats when there are bits missing or not working? Very disappointing for a buyer with cash waiting! So, I'm not proceeding, at the moment. I'll download and analyse the GPS log from my hand-held, to see what tacking angles and speeds we achieved in the cold light of day, but I have a feeling this isn't the boat for me...
Well, we had the sea trial on Sunday in blustery conditions, about twenty knots of wind, and the usual Portsmouth entrance mix of swell and chop. Two reefs in the main, and what looked and felt like the right amount of headsail. Things that struck me: - The boat wasn't fast, achieving about 5 and a half knots maximum on the log (inspecting the hull afterwards showed a good amount of fouling but not enough to explain the low speeds achieved) - The helm was exceedingly heavy, much heavier than any yacht I've helmed previously. Static friction wasn't the problem, rather the rudder feels badly balanced and too small. - The rudder seemed to stall very easily - When heeled, the angle of the cockpit sole makes standing very difficult. The cant is convex rather than concave, viewed from above. - Moving across the coachroof looked hazardous, as there are no hand-holds - Both main and headsail were more worn that I expected (big money to spend right away) - A few things didn't work, or had been removed and not replaced (the lines for the Dutchman reefing, for example). Why do owners try to sell their boats when there are bits missing or not working? Very disappointing for a buyer with cash waiting! So, I'm not proceeding, at the moment. I'll download and analyse the GPS log from my hand-held, to see what tacking angles and speeds we achieved in the cold light of day, but I have a feeling this isn't the boat for me...
Now that you have eliminated the 40.5
Northern Sky, I think the issues you discovered with this particular boat might not be representative of the overall success of the design. That being said, you really should look at the 410. The 410 is nimble, can come about within two of her boat lengths and is exciting once the apparent winds are cooperating. Very seaworthy. There are several on the market to give you a good representation of what is available. John Richard s/v Jack's Place John Richard s/v Jack's Place
Northern Sky, I think the issues you discovered with this particular boat might not be representative of the overall success of the design. That being said, you really should look at the 410. The 410 is nimble, can come about within two of her boat lengths and is exciting once the apparent winds are cooperating. Very seaworthy. There are several on the market to give you a good representation of what is available. John Richard s/v Jack's Place John Richard s/v Jack's Place
I would look at a 410, but...
Thanks John, You may have missed (in my original post) that I'm in the UK, and given that we human beings, in our spirit of mutual co-operation, have produced a regulatory structure which makes it impractical to buy a boat in the US and bring her to the UK for use, I'm restricted to what's available in the UK and near Europe...
Thanks John, You may have missed (in my original post) that I'm in the UK, and given that we human beings, in our spirit of mutual co-operation, have produced a regulatory structure which makes it impractical to buy a boat in the US and bring her to the UK for use, I'm restricted to what's available in the UK and near Europe...
Boat purchase
I would suppose that a purchase in the US would be cost prohibitive. I was suggesting to find a 410 in your locale. Best wishes, John Richard
I would suppose that a purchase in the US would be cost prohibitive. I was suggesting to find a 410 in your locale. Best wishes, John Richard
To windward...
For the benefit of any other potential buyers who may search here for infrmation, I'll post the following: I took a handheld GPS with me on the sea trial. Downloading and analysing the track afterwards showed the boat was tacking through more than 130 degrees, allowing for a small amount of tide (the trial was done just after high water). I'll let others decide whether this is impressive or not!
For the benefit of any other potential buyers who may search here for infrmation, I'll post the following: I took a handheld GPS with me on the sea trial. Downloading and analysing the track afterwards showed the boat was tacking through more than 130 degrees, allowing for a small amount of tide (the trial was done just after high water). I'll let others decide whether this is impressive or not!
Tacking results
Northern Sky, 130 degrees seems too much. The only things that may be pushing you down so much might have been a strong ebbing or flooding current. Or also the shoal draft keel. Perhaps the combination of the two produced this anomaly. I have never sailed in other than a deep draft keel, so I might be misguided. Otherwise, I would expect something in the range of 90 to 100 degrees...max. John Richard s/v Jack's Place
Northern Sky, 130 degrees seems too much. The only things that may be pushing you down so much might have been a strong ebbing or flooding current. Or also the shoal draft keel. Perhaps the combination of the two produced this anomaly. I have never sailed in other than a deep draft keel, so I might be misguided. Otherwise, I would expect something in the range of 90 to 100 degrees...max. John Richard s/v Jack's Place
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