jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 23,161
Wow, Smokey I had you figured as a younger man. Did not know Hunter had perfected the design that long ago.
Hunter 386- how many miles per day?
- Thread starter BroncoJohn
- Start date
Sometimes I feel younger, sometimes older. Guess this is one of the "older" times.
Have you made the trip yet?
My 16 yr old son and I did they same trip two years ago in June. Left Portsmouth RI down LI Sound the East River, ate lunch in front of the Statue of Liberty, down the coast of NJ up Delaware Bay across the canal and down the Chesapeake Bay. We are docked at YRYH in Gloucester now. The hardest part of the trip by far was the night motor-sail down NJ to Cape May in 25-30kt headwinds. Stay out of the shipping lanes out of NY City. We stayed 3-5 miles off shore.
It took us 10 days total including two days prepping the boat for the trip. Rented an inflatable lifeboat just in case. Time your passage with the tide and the currents in LI Sound and especially Hell Gate. We timed our trip with a nighttime full moon which helped a ton.
The only thing that I regret is perhaps we should have planned a two day+ shakedown to really push the boat and find any little or big things that needed to be done. We were hampered with slipping line clutches and a chart plotter that kept crashing although we had an iPad and cell phone backup and we had several hatches that leaked badly. Nothing too bad.
Overall is was a fantastic trip.
My 16 yr old son and I did they same trip two years ago in June. Left Portsmouth RI down LI Sound the East River, ate lunch in front of the Statue of Liberty, down the coast of NJ up Delaware Bay across the canal and down the Chesapeake Bay. We are docked at YRYH in Gloucester now. The hardest part of the trip by far was the night motor-sail down NJ to Cape May in 25-30kt headwinds. Stay out of the shipping lanes out of NY City. We stayed 3-5 miles off shore.
It took us 10 days total including two days prepping the boat for the trip. Rented an inflatable lifeboat just in case. Time your passage with the tide and the currents in LI Sound and especially Hell Gate. We timed our trip with a nighttime full moon which helped a ton.
The only thing that I regret is perhaps we should have planned a two day+ shakedown to really push the boat and find any little or big things that needed to be done. We were hampered with slipping line clutches and a chart plotter that kept crashing although we had an iPad and cell phone backup and we had several hatches that leaked badly. Nothing too bad.
Overall is was a fantastic trip.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 23,161
Tim, thanks for your shared story. It provides a couple of ideas that I consider relevant in getting ready for a cruise.
- Prep the boat then take it out on a shake down cruise to see if it is ready for the planned cruise.
- Have a plan, know the dangers, have a contingent to get out of trouble.
- You do not need the boat "perfect" to untie the lines. You need to understand the boat and be able to deal with what the conditions give you. i.e Leaky windows
- Have redundency in your systems and know how to use them. i.e. the iPads and phone to back up a chart plotter.
Thanks Tim.
We have a slip at York River Yacht Haven also. The slip is a few spots in front of the store there.
Unfortunately we are still waiting to take ownership. The day before closing we discovered the title was off by one letter. There was an O where a C should have been. The broker submitted the correction request 7 weeks ago and we are still waiting for the NY DMV to send the corrected title.
In the meantime we have been preparing even more and have a dignhy. Our plan is two spend 2 or 3 days getting the boat ready and testing before leaving. I want to pay a delivery captain to get us to the statue of Liberty then my wife and I will take it the rest of the way.
We have a slip at York River Yacht Haven also. The slip is a few spots in front of the store there.
Unfortunately we are still waiting to take ownership. The day before closing we discovered the title was off by one letter. There was an O where a C should have been. The broker submitted the correction request 7 weeks ago and we are still waiting for the NY DMV to send the corrected title.
In the meantime we have been preparing even more and have a dignhy. Our plan is two spend 2 or 3 days getting the boat ready and testing before leaving. I want to pay a delivery captain to get us to the statue of Liberty then my wife and I will take it the rest of the way.
John:
I went back and found an old post summarizing our trip.
Here it is:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
This was a big deal for my son and I. It was a new boat to us, in unfamiliar waters, in unfamiliar conditions where I have not done night sailing. The route required night sailing along the coast of New Jersey because I didn't want to stop along the coast and take any risks at those inlets.
Before we left I changed the alternator belt, fuel filter, oil filter and raw water impeller and ran the engine hard for a day just to give myself some comfort that we wouldn't have engine trouble. We left two days after we arrived at the boat in Portsmouth RI to get it ready to go south.
I bought a three month subscription to PredictWind and an updated Navionics CF card for the C-80 chart plotter. Also, the Navionics iPad app is cheap and fantastic. We had quite a few problems with the C-80 chart plotter crashing and the iPad saved us more than once. We also had backup charts both on cell phones and paper charts as well. For the night sail we both stayed in the cockpit and took three hour shifts.
We had a bit of a regimen where every three hours we checked and wrote down:
whether
GPS coordinates
condition of the bilge
checked the rigging
check the state of the batteries
Each day we checked:
engine oil
engine coolant
transmission oil
raw water strainers
For safety we:
purchased an EPIRB
rented a six person life raft in a satchel from Vane Bros.
installed jack lines
required each of us be clipped in our harness AT ALL TIMES outside of the cabin until we got into the Chesapeake Bay.
emailed or texted our float plan and progress each day to someone at home.
We watched the wind conditions using PredictWind and monitored the tidal current forecasts using the Navionics iPad app which showed precisely when the currents were favorable in and out of New York and in and out of Delaware Bay. We timed our trip to go through some of the tough areas such as "The Race" entering Long Island sound and "Hell Gate" entering New York City at slack tide with a following push and it worked perfectly every time.. We also used the app to predict the incoming tide up Delaware Bay and were able to ride it in and do 8 knots all the way up the bay in 15+ knots of wind and it was perfect.
The toughest part of the trip was getting down to Cape May New Jersey. We had run all day from Port Jefferson Long Island through the City down to Sandy Hook New Jersey and was going to spend the night there;......... however the wind forecast called for steady 30 kn winds the following afternoon and for the next three days. So rather than getting pinned down in Sandy Hook for three days we decided to continue on and leave immediately for Cape May at 8 PM in 20 kn southerly winds trying to get south before the high winds kicked up the following day. That turned out to be a long 36 hour run from Port Jefferson Long Island to Cape May nonstop except for a quick stop at Sandy Hook. We didn't quite get to Cape May before the winds picked up and spent the last three hours in 30 kn winds on the nose in fairly steep waves but we got there just fine.
We had left Sandy Hook with two reefs in the main and no jib and kept the the engine running all night just to be prepared for anything. We generally stayed 3 to 5 miles off the shoreline and tacked down the coast all night in southerly winds and could see the lights along the shore the entire way. Fortunately a nearly full moon rose at midnight which help light the way. I wouldn't want to do this in a storm or fog or complete darkness.
The boat does not have AIS which my other boat did. This is a first priority upgrade because it lets you see so much more than just radar does. IMHO.
We left Cape May the following morning in the same 25+ knots of wind and rough seas but it was only an hour and half to get around the Cape and into Delaware Bay where conditions turned out to be perfect.
The second day down the Chesapeake we were able to run with the spinnaker all day. That was great.
When we couldn't sail we motored or motor sailed. We planned on about 60+ nautical miles a day but some days did 90+ and some days did less.
This time of year it starts to get light at 4:30 AM so we left at 5 AM and no later than 6 AM most days.
Active Captain (get an account if you don't have one) syncs with the Navionics app (both owned by Garmen) so you can find all kinds of anchorages with comments from other sailors and cruisers as well as information such as phone numbers and details about anything along the route including dangerous locations. The Active Captain Internet site is also really good.
You want to anchor as close to shore as you can but not too close. The closer to shore you get the more likely you are to be attacked by gnats, or worse, mosquitoes.
The Navionics IPad app will also do automatic route calculations and keep track of your speed and give you an estimated time of arrival for each leg of your trip as long as you have an Internet connection. This helped us determine at what point along the trip to stop, usually 30 minutes before sunset. My iPad has built-in cell service so we had cell service along the entire trip.
We had no delays to speak of. The wind, sunrise and tidal currents controlled our schedule.
We did begin to make a list of issues with the boat as we worked our way south. These include:
1. The C-80 chart plotter is a bit sketchy. I have already decided to upgrade it.
2. The main halyard line clutch slips and wouldn't hold the main halyard tension tight enough so under certain conditions we had to rig the main sheet to another winch. This was a pain but we were able to work around it. I have since rebuilt the line clutch with new Spinlok parts.
3. The stereo stopped working on day one. turned out to be an inline fuse.
4. A number of the Bomar deck hatches leaked badly in rough weather.
5. The single-line reefing system is poorly designed. I should've known this because my other boat had the same system and there's so much friction in it that it makes reefing almost impossible at times. I'm adding a number of blocks and replacing the running rigging to eliminate a lot of the friction in the system to fix this.
God bless.
I went back and found an old post summarizing our trip.
Here it is:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
This was a big deal for my son and I. It was a new boat to us, in unfamiliar waters, in unfamiliar conditions where I have not done night sailing. The route required night sailing along the coast of New Jersey because I didn't want to stop along the coast and take any risks at those inlets.
Before we left I changed the alternator belt, fuel filter, oil filter and raw water impeller and ran the engine hard for a day just to give myself some comfort that we wouldn't have engine trouble. We left two days after we arrived at the boat in Portsmouth RI to get it ready to go south.
I bought a three month subscription to PredictWind and an updated Navionics CF card for the C-80 chart plotter. Also, the Navionics iPad app is cheap and fantastic. We had quite a few problems with the C-80 chart plotter crashing and the iPad saved us more than once. We also had backup charts both on cell phones and paper charts as well. For the night sail we both stayed in the cockpit and took three hour shifts.
We had a bit of a regimen where every three hours we checked and wrote down:
whether
GPS coordinates
condition of the bilge
checked the rigging
check the state of the batteries
Each day we checked:
engine oil
engine coolant
transmission oil
raw water strainers
For safety we:
purchased an EPIRB
rented a six person life raft in a satchel from Vane Bros.
installed jack lines
required each of us be clipped in our harness AT ALL TIMES outside of the cabin until we got into the Chesapeake Bay.
emailed or texted our float plan and progress each day to someone at home.
We watched the wind conditions using PredictWind and monitored the tidal current forecasts using the Navionics iPad app which showed precisely when the currents were favorable in and out of New York and in and out of Delaware Bay. We timed our trip to go through some of the tough areas such as "The Race" entering Long Island sound and "Hell Gate" entering New York City at slack tide with a following push and it worked perfectly every time.. We also used the app to predict the incoming tide up Delaware Bay and were able to ride it in and do 8 knots all the way up the bay in 15+ knots of wind and it was perfect.
The toughest part of the trip was getting down to Cape May New Jersey. We had run all day from Port Jefferson Long Island through the City down to Sandy Hook New Jersey and was going to spend the night there;......... however the wind forecast called for steady 30 kn winds the following afternoon and for the next three days. So rather than getting pinned down in Sandy Hook for three days we decided to continue on and leave immediately for Cape May at 8 PM in 20 kn southerly winds trying to get south before the high winds kicked up the following day. That turned out to be a long 36 hour run from Port Jefferson Long Island to Cape May nonstop except for a quick stop at Sandy Hook. We didn't quite get to Cape May before the winds picked up and spent the last three hours in 30 kn winds on the nose in fairly steep waves but we got there just fine.
We had left Sandy Hook with two reefs in the main and no jib and kept the the engine running all night just to be prepared for anything. We generally stayed 3 to 5 miles off the shoreline and tacked down the coast all night in southerly winds and could see the lights along the shore the entire way. Fortunately a nearly full moon rose at midnight which help light the way. I wouldn't want to do this in a storm or fog or complete darkness.
The boat does not have AIS which my other boat did. This is a first priority upgrade because it lets you see so much more than just radar does. IMHO.
We left Cape May the following morning in the same 25+ knots of wind and rough seas but it was only an hour and half to get around the Cape and into Delaware Bay where conditions turned out to be perfect.
The second day down the Chesapeake we were able to run with the spinnaker all day. That was great.
When we couldn't sail we motored or motor sailed. We planned on about 60+ nautical miles a day but some days did 90+ and some days did less.
This time of year it starts to get light at 4:30 AM so we left at 5 AM and no later than 6 AM most days.
Active Captain (get an account if you don't have one) syncs with the Navionics app (both owned by Garmen) so you can find all kinds of anchorages with comments from other sailors and cruisers as well as information such as phone numbers and details about anything along the route including dangerous locations. The Active Captain Internet site is also really good.
You want to anchor as close to shore as you can but not too close. The closer to shore you get the more likely you are to be attacked by gnats, or worse, mosquitoes.
The Navionics IPad app will also do automatic route calculations and keep track of your speed and give you an estimated time of arrival for each leg of your trip as long as you have an Internet connection. This helped us determine at what point along the trip to stop, usually 30 minutes before sunset. My iPad has built-in cell service so we had cell service along the entire trip.
We had no delays to speak of. The wind, sunrise and tidal currents controlled our schedule.
We did begin to make a list of issues with the boat as we worked our way south. These include:
1. The C-80 chart plotter is a bit sketchy. I have already decided to upgrade it.
2. The main halyard line clutch slips and wouldn't hold the main halyard tension tight enough so under certain conditions we had to rig the main sheet to another winch. This was a pain but we were able to work around it. I have since rebuilt the line clutch with new Spinlok parts.
3. The stereo stopped working on day one. turned out to be an inline fuse.
4. A number of the Bomar deck hatches leaked badly in rough weather.
5. The single-line reefing system is poorly designed. I should've known this because my other boat had the same system and there's so much friction in it that it makes reefing almost impossible at times. I'm adding a number of blocks and replacing the running rigging to eliminate a lot of the friction in the system to fix this.
God bless.
Wow great information Tim. I hope to buy you a beer soon at YROC for your helpful advice.
I have the apps you mentioned and the previous owner upgraded all the electronics to Garmin and radar recently. They also added a high definition sonar. I am also planning on replacing most of the running rigging when we get the boat to Yorktown.
Our slip is the empty one mid way down F dock.
I have the apps you mentioned and the previous owner upgraded all the electronics to Garmin and radar recently. They also added a high definition sonar. I am also planning on replacing most of the running rigging when we get the boat to Yorktown.
Our slip is the empty one mid way down F dock.
I noticed you rented a life raft from Vane Brothers. I'm scratching my head over that because I did a DelMarVa circumnavigation this year and tried to rent one from Vane in Baltimore (I had them recondition my MOM-8). They said they stopped renting life rafts years ago. I'm guessing you rented from another location then? How/where did you return it? And how much was it?
I rented it June 2020. We rented a one way rental car for our trip to RI to pick up the boat. On the way up we picked up the life raft at their Baltimore location (HQ) and after we got back were able to drop it off at their Portsmouth office. It was very convenient for me. The impression I got from them was that they did a lot of rentals for various rallies and events.
Here is the e-mail:
________________________________________________________________
Hi Tim,
As we spoke, yes, we will have rental raft for you, 6p in valise.
Confirming price at $575.00 plus MD tax.
You can stop by Friday, June 5th any time after 8:30AM
Address is below,
Best regards
Neno Uljarevic
Production Manager
Vane Brothers Marine Safety
2100 Frankfurst Ave.
Baltimore, MD 21226
410 631 5167 phone
410 735 8117 direct line
410 631 5118 fax
sales@vanebrothers.com
www.vanebrothers.com
Thanks very much for that response and e-mail - interesting to see how much they charge. That's exactly the office I drove to in April of this year to get my MOM-8 repacked, and they said they've stopped renting them. I called around and while you can rent them from some vendors the shipping will KILL you. In fact, I had one in CA basically say "You don't want to rent from us. Here's the number of an east coast vendor that will be able to ship a lot cheaper". I quickly realized if I couldn't skip the shipping charge it wasn't worth it for 24 hours offshore in good weather we could pick, in a rally of 9 boats who could help if things really went to crap (plus we carried a dinghy and EPIRB).
One would THINK that the self-described Sailing Capital of the World (Annapolis, MD) would have at least one place that would rent them. But nope. They barely have one place that can repair inflatable dinghys. But I digress...
My wife, 7 year old daughter and I made it to Yorktown, VA July 31 from NYC at 6PM. It took 9 days in total because we had to sit on a mooring buoy at Atlantic Highlands NJ for 2 days waiting for wind to calm down in the Atlantic. The trip down the East River was interesting. We left City Island about 45 min before high tide in Hell Gate. We were doing 11 to 12 knots with the tide through Hell Gate and it was uneventful. The boat was moving around a bit going past Roosevelt Island and half way past the island we went through a few 5 foot swells.
Day 1 left City Island NYC 45 min before high tide at Hell Gate to Atlantic Highlands NJ
Day 2 and 3 left the boat on a mooring ball and hit a Hotel because the AC was not working during a heat wave in Sandy Hook waiting for weather
Day 4 went from Atlantic Highlands in Sandy Hook NJ to Atlantic City
Day 5 Atlantic City to Cape May
Day 6 Cape May to Summit North Marina on the C&D
Day 7 C&D to Annapolis on a mooring ball
Day 8 Annapolis to Point Lookout Marina on the Potomac in Ridge MD
Day 9 Ridge MD to Yorktown VA
We stayed at a marina on the C&D canal that was very shallow but we avoided getting stuck. We had reservations at the Point Lookout Marina in Ridge, MD. My wife was on the VHF with the marina on our final approach. The employee left us and we grabbed a slip to find out all the power outlets were being takin up by a few power boats with dual plug needs. I would have taken one of the outlets but the people were on their boats for the weekend. Because of the heat we hit another hotel with an Uber before making our way home the next day.
Our AC was not working until I figured out the seacock/ball valve was broken from the leaver and not allowing water to cool the unit. I was able to force the ball open and get the AC working 5 days into the trip. We stayed in a hotel in NJ because of the intense heat wave and I had my 7 year old and wife with me. I was able to get the sails out a few times but just to help speed up the trip. I used the motor 99% of the time to stay on our schedule. I was averaging close to 7 knots the whole trip at around 2700 RPM. I got around 7.8 NM per gallon.
Our Fisher Panda generator came in handy serval times.
I had to replace the engine start battery in Atlantic City and had a ball valve/sea cock delivered for the AC. The previous owner had a installed a deep cycle for the engine start battery that was bad. I was able to have a marine service mechanic deliver a new one and give me lots of advise for the AC and a few other systems. The mechanic said the engine start battery should not have been a deep cycle.
One of the 3 main house batteries was leaking from the top and making a hissing sound so I could not run the charger while on shore power. I am fairly sure it caused the CO2 alarms to go off one night. I shut the charger off and vented the boat and the problem went away for the rest of the trip.
When I was fixing the AC seawater connection I noticed we had a leaking fresh water line spraying fresh water under the floor. I used the rubber tape and some hose clamps and was able to fix it for the rest of the trip.
I replaced the rest of the house batteries as soon as we arrived to Yorktown.
I wish I had an electric scooter with us. I made serval trips for bottled water, food and other supplies by walking very long distances. We used the sales a few times but it was mostly on the engine to make time and get the boat home.
Day 1 left City Island NYC 45 min before high tide at Hell Gate to Atlantic Highlands NJ
Day 2 and 3 left the boat on a mooring ball and hit a Hotel because the AC was not working during a heat wave in Sandy Hook waiting for weather
Day 4 went from Atlantic Highlands in Sandy Hook NJ to Atlantic City
Day 5 Atlantic City to Cape May
Day 6 Cape May to Summit North Marina on the C&D
Day 7 C&D to Annapolis on a mooring ball
Day 8 Annapolis to Point Lookout Marina on the Potomac in Ridge MD
Day 9 Ridge MD to Yorktown VA
We stayed at a marina on the C&D canal that was very shallow but we avoided getting stuck. We had reservations at the Point Lookout Marina in Ridge, MD. My wife was on the VHF with the marina on our final approach. The employee left us and we grabbed a slip to find out all the power outlets were being takin up by a few power boats with dual plug needs. I would have taken one of the outlets but the people were on their boats for the weekend. Because of the heat we hit another hotel with an Uber before making our way home the next day.
Our AC was not working until I figured out the seacock/ball valve was broken from the leaver and not allowing water to cool the unit. I was able to force the ball open and get the AC working 5 days into the trip. We stayed in a hotel in NJ because of the intense heat wave and I had my 7 year old and wife with me. I was able to get the sails out a few times but just to help speed up the trip. I used the motor 99% of the time to stay on our schedule. I was averaging close to 7 knots the whole trip at around 2700 RPM. I got around 7.8 NM per gallon.
Our Fisher Panda generator came in handy serval times.
I had to replace the engine start battery in Atlantic City and had a ball valve/sea cock delivered for the AC. The previous owner had a installed a deep cycle for the engine start battery that was bad. I was able to have a marine service mechanic deliver a new one and give me lots of advise for the AC and a few other systems. The mechanic said the engine start battery should not have been a deep cycle.
One of the 3 main house batteries was leaking from the top and making a hissing sound so I could not run the charger while on shore power. I am fairly sure it caused the CO2 alarms to go off one night. I shut the charger off and vented the boat and the problem went away for the rest of the trip.
When I was fixing the AC seawater connection I noticed we had a leaking fresh water line spraying fresh water under the floor. I used the rubber tape and some hose clamps and was able to fix it for the rest of the trip.
I replaced the rest of the house batteries as soon as we arrived to Yorktown.
I wish I had an electric scooter with us. I made serval trips for bottled water, food and other supplies by walking very long distances. We used the sales a few times but it was mostly on the engine to make time and get the boat home.
Sounds like a great trip. Thanks for posting the update!
The mechanic might be right about not using deep cycles on big powerboat engines, but on our small sailboat diesels it’s just fine. Many sail boat owners use deep cycle batteries for the engine just for consistency with the house bank. You’re probably right that the hissing from the battery was causing the CO alarm to go off - that’s a known cross-sensitivity for the sensors. You might also want to double check that your charger isn’t overcharging the batteries, which could also cause trouble. When actively charging the voltage should be in the low-mid 14’s and when floating it should be in the low-mid 13’s.
The mechanic might be right about not using deep cycles on big powerboat engines, but on our small sailboat diesels it’s just fine. Many sail boat owners use deep cycle batteries for the engine just for consistency with the house bank. You’re probably right that the hissing from the battery was causing the CO alarm to go off - that’s a known cross-sensitivity for the sensors. You might also want to double check that your charger isn’t overcharging the batteries, which could also cause trouble. When actively charging the voltage should be in the low-mid 14’s and when floating it should be in the low-mid 13’s.
Tim,
I could use some pointers getting through the channel out of Yacht Haven.
I came in at low tide and stayed tight to the last green pilon before the marina and ran aground. Fortunately I was able to back off in reverse and came in more to the right/Beach side.
I could use some pointers getting through the channel out of Yacht Haven.
I came in at low tide and stayed tight to the last green pilon before the marina and ran aground. Fortunately I was able to back off in reverse and came in more to the right/Beach side.
The channel is well marked
The problem is at the entrance to the marina. I have run aground there also.
As you leave the marina keep left as you approach the first green day mark. Day mark "9".
There is a shallow sand bar between dock A, B and C and the channel. It used to be marked with a white PVC pole. I used to be on Dock B. Just keep left when leaving the marina and stay in the channel as you approach day mark 9.
The problem is at the entrance to the marina. I have run aground there also.
As you leave the marina keep left as you approach the first green day mark. Day mark "9".
There is a shallow sand bar between dock A, B and C and the channel. It used to be marked with a white PVC pole. I used to be on Dock B. Just keep left when leaving the marina and stay in the channel as you approach day mark 9.