Hunter 340 'soggy' ruddder question please

[markymac1961]

Hi Folks,
I'm new to the forum, (Hi everyone) and recently purchased a 1999 Hunter 340 'down under' here in Brisbane - Australia. The marine survey showed signs of considerable water ingress in the rudder blade. Hoping someone could please advise the most likely 'factory composition' of the rudder on this particular model/year? (I'm guessing it would be glass over foam?) Are there a series of SS tangs off the trailing edge of the rudder post? Also, (unrelated) there are two thru hull skin fittings with seacocks in the starboard transom locker. These are not connected to anything. Could these possibly be for a non-existant AirCon unit which I believe was a factory fitted option in these boats. They're badly seized, so will probably be removed and the holes professionally 'plugged'. Thank you in advance for any info... and happy 'Huntering' (I already love this boat!) Mark Mac - Brisbane, Australia.

 

[sailcapt340]

Welcome Mark,
The 340 is a comfortable boat both to sail and be on. We have a 2000 which is not far off from the 1999. One change Hunter made was going from the fiberglass arch to the stainless steel arch. We’ve had ours since new in 2000 and love the boat.
If you would, post some pictures of the thru hulls you mentioned in the starboard locker. Mine has one and thats for the macerator. My AC unit is located under the starboard settee and its thru hull is located in the bilge. About 3 feet away from the unit.
If there was going to be a place close to the starboard locker for an AC unit to be mounted and use the thru hull you are talking about, it would be behind the aft cabin wall in the center. Between the Fuel Tank and the Holding Tank.
That wall comes down by removing about 8 or so screws and opens up completely the area I am speaking of. Take a look in there. You’ll also be able to check your cables, wiring and hoses as well.
The seacocks may be seized but might be able be freed up. Using some heat and spray lube in them. So they may not be a lost cause. Don’t apply to much heat or pressure, just a little to see.
You have a good solid boat enjoy it.
I have a friend who owned a 1999 340. He sold it about 5 years ago. He never mentioned any issues with the rudder as you describe. I will reach out to him and ask for you.

 

[markymac1961]

Welcome Mark,
The 340 is a comfortable boat both to sail and be on. We have a 2000 which is not far off from the 1999. One change Hunter made was going from the fiberglass arch to the stainless steel arch. We’ve had ours since new in 2000 and love the boat.
If you would, post some pictures of the thru hulls you mentioned in the starboard locker. Mine has one and thats for the macerator. My AC unit is located under the starboard settee and its thru hull is located in the bilge. About 3 feet away from the unit.
If there was going to be a place close to the starboard locker for an AC unit to be mounted and use the thru hull you are talking about, it would be behind the aft cabin wall in the center. Between the Fuel Tank and the Holding Tank.
That wall comes down by removing about 8 or so screws and opens up completely the area I am speaking of. Take a look in there. You’ll also be able to check your cables, wiring and hoses as well.
The seacocks may be seized but might be able be freed up. Using some heat and spray lube in them. So they may not be a lost cause. Don’t apply to much heat or pressure, just a little to see.
You have a good solid boat enjoy it.
I have a friend who owned a 1999 340. He sold it about 5 years ago. He never mentioned any issues with the rudder as you describe. I will reach out to him and ask for you.

Hi 'sailcapt340'
Thank you for your most detailed repsonse. I shall try to get some pics and post soon. The seacocks appear never having been connected to anything! This is why I was thinking they may be installed during build from factory should an optional AC be fitted. I'll probably get them removed and properly plugged anyway... doesn't really get hot enough here 'down under' for boat ACs anyway (haha!)
Of more concern is the 'soggy' rudder blade as shown up in the recent marine survey report. If one day I can't steer the boat under sail because the rudder blade has 'dislodged' itself... the ensuing 'sweating a fair bit' due to no AC will be the least of my concerns.
Thanks again for your comment mate... much appreesh - Mark Mac

 

[Jan_H]

Hi Mark - I had a similar issue with the rudder on the Hunter 380 I bought last year, and the insurance company required this to be addressed. I removed the rudder last November, and tackled this as a winter project. It was quite a bit of work.... I have attached an excerpt from the document I provided the insurance that summarises the rebuild. The steering was also quite stiff, which I attributed to the waterlogged rudder, but turned out to require some judicious sanding of the sleeve bearings to get it to turn nicely. Happy to discuss further if you like. Jan

 

[markymac1961]

Hi Mark - I had a similar issue with the rudder on the Hunter 380 I bought last year, and the insurance company required this to be addressed. I removed the rudder last November, and tackled this as a winter project. It was quite a bit of work.... I have attached an excerpt from the document I provided the insurance that summarises the rebuild. The steering was also quite stiff, which I attributed to the waterlogged rudder, but turned out to require some judicious sanding of the sleeve bearings to get it to turn nicely. Happy to discuss further if you like. Jan

Hi Jan,
That's a very helpful summary (with great pics) of what I may well be in for. Thanks very much for that. At this stage we are yet to do an 'invasive' inspection (drilling some holes and more moisture tests) however hoping it's able to be fixed without too much time and $$$. Fingers crossed. Best regards - Mark

 

[markymac1961]

Hi 'sailcapt340'
Thank you for your most detailed repsonse. I shall try to get some pics and post soon. The seacocks appear never having been connected to anything! This is why I was thinking they may be installed during build from factory should an optional AC be fitted. I'll probably get them removed and properly plugged anyway... doesn't really get hot enough here 'down under' for boat ACs anyway (haha!)
Of more concern is the 'soggy' rudder blade as shown up in the recent marine survey report. If one day I can't steer the boat under sail because the rudder blade has 'dislodged' itself... the ensuing 'sweating a fair bit' due to no AC will be the least of my concerns.
Thanks again for your comment mate... much appreesh - Mark Mac

Here are the pics of the 'unattached' seized seacocks in the starboard transom locker. (Photos from Marine Surveyors full report)

 

[sailcapt340]

Yes, you need to replace or remove those. Just for the peace of mind.
I was at my boat this morning finishing up my winterizing and took a couple of photos for you to see.
I thought the macerator pump got in the photo but my bosun chair got in the way. I’m guessing you don’t have a macerator installed on your boat or it was disabled and removed.
I put the handle on the seacock for detail but normally it is removed to cover the code here. The other is the engine exhaust hose.
I did speak with a friend and he said he never had an issue with the rudder itself. He did have the ball joint connection snap once and replaced that. A word of caution, check those on the steering linkage and lightly grease them.
Keep us updated on your rudder situation.

 

[markymac1961]

Yes, you need to replace or remove those. Just for the peace of mind.
I was at my boat this morning finishing up my winterizing and took a couple of photos for you to see.
I thought the macerator pump got in the photo but my bosun chair got in the way. I’m guessing you don’t have a macerator installed on your boat or it was disabled and removed.
I put the handle on the seacock for detail but normally it is removed to cover the code here. The other is the engine exhaust hose.
I did speak with a friend and he said he never had an issue with the rudder itself. He did have the ball joint connection snap once and replaced that. A word of caution, check those on the steering linkage and lightly grease them.
Keep us updated on your rudder situation.

Great info mate and thanks for the pics. I'll see how it all plays out and report back in cheers. - Mark Mac

 

[smokey73]

Mark, Your rudder was most likely manufactured by Foss Foam in Florida (www.newrudders.com). I realize you are in Brisbane so purchasing from them with shipping is way to expensive but I'd get in touch with them anyway. The repair method posted earlier should work fine if you are skilled at fiberglass work or have someone who is close to you.

HOWEVER, for a period in the 1990's they used stainless steel shafts but carbon steel "fins" inside of the rudder. If you haven't bought the boat yet I'd consider the cost of the repair in your offer. If you have already bought the boat I'd get that taken care of pronto, especially if it one of the rudders made with carbon steel fins. You can contact Foss Foam (they are great people) and they should be able to tell you.

 

[markymac1961]

Mark, Your rudder was most likely manufactured by Foss Foam in Florida (www.newrudders.com). I realize you are in Brisbane so purchasing from them with shipping is way to expensive but I'd get in touch with them anyway. The repair method posted earlier should work fine if you are skilled at fiberglass work or have someone who is close to you.

HOWEVER, for a period in the 1990's they used stainless steel shafts but carbon steel "fins" inside of the rudder. If you haven't bought the boat yet I'd consider the cost of the repair in your offer. If you have already bought the boat I'd get that taken care of pronto, especially if it one of the rudders made with carbon steel fins. You can contact Foss Foam (they are great people) and they should be able to tell you.

Hi 'Smokey73'
Wow that's great info thank you. I shall follow up and get some more info. It will be a job for the Pros on this one for sure. My glassing skills are a bit light on and limited to 'cosmetic' repairs only. Thanks again cheers - Mark

 

[Jan_H]

Hi Mark - Based on my correspondence with David Walker (of Foss Foam) last year, Hunter took over making their rudders from 1995 to 2002, before and after which Foss Foam made Hunter rudders. This was also the period in which the fibreglass rudder stock was used. According to David, the rudder stock was glassed onto one side of the rudder blade (the blade was fabricated in two halves), which I can confirm. On my rudder, the rudder stock was fairly well adhered to the port side of the blade, but hardly at all to the stdb side. There were no other structural ribs or fins or such, which was one reason I expoxied in the new ribs. The foam that was poured in through two holes in the top of the rudder after the halves had been glassed together was lightweight 2lb (possibly 4lb) bouyancy foam. I drilled an 8mm hole in the lower edge of the blade when the boat was hauled for the winter, and while some water drained out over a two week period, I was amazed at how much water was still retained in the foam after a month with the rudder laid flat in a heated room with the 4 panels cut out - it would never have dried out....

 

[Jan_H]

Oops - rudder stock was glassed to the stbd side, with little attachment to the port side... but there was a roll of saturated glass mat on the port side of the rudder stock that I expect was meant to have provided a bond to the port half, but wasn't quite thick enough, and so didn't.

 

[markymac1961]

Oops - rudder stock was glassed to the stbd side, with little attachment to the port side... but there was a roll of saturated glass mat on the port side of the rudder stock that I expect was meant to have provided a bond to the port half, but wasn't quite thick enough, and so didn't.

Yep thanks Jan. Best thing is she's coming out of the water for other work, so will thoroughly investigate 'soggy' rudder and properly repair as required. I shall report back in due course cheers - Mark Mac