Hunter 34 racing

Barnacle Bill · Jul 23, 2012

I have heard that this design is tender and perhaps over canvassed. So, shortening sail is something to consider. You also need to learn how to feather the boat into the wind on heavy wind days. Once you have that down, you can better control the boat going to weather. In these conditions you have the inside genoa tell tales flying straight up and the outside ones straight back as you stick the boat into the wind. By moving the genoa lead car aft, you can also help depower the rig by letting wind spill off the top. Moving the car aft enables the top of the sail to break before the bottom. In heavier air you also want to let the traveler down to the lee side of the boat (while in light air you bring the traveler up to weather). You want lots of vang on and lots of backstay on. When you get hit with a gust, the traveler might be too far to leeward to dump, so you can dump or release the vang and when the gust goes by you can pull it in hard again. Just a few helpful pointers, I hope.

onecoolair · Jul 23, 2012

ranchu56 said:
Hunter 34 owners,

Seeking comments and or advice regarding racing. Have read Don's book and have purchased adjustable genoa cars from Garhauer. Still managing to take last place consistently )-: My boat is a 1984 Hunter 34, split backstay, 5' 6" fin keel, 155 genoa (1 year old), main sail that is 3 years old and no spinnaker. I sail here in Rhode Island and have an assigned PHRF-NB rating of 172....which also happens to be the lowest rating in the fleet of 10 boats which means 'I owe everybody time'. My biggest issue is with weather helm. Wind blowing 17 knots tonight, main had 2 reefs, and genoa roller furled to approximately a 130. Had a quarter turn on the wheel fighting weather helm and it got worse at times and ended up being overpowered. Had the sails as flat as we could get them and handled overpower episodes by dropping the traveler first. 'None' of the other boats out tonight had a reef or a furled headsail. We're not AC crew quality but have been sailing/crewing long enough to know what we should be doing. Does anybody else have this consistent excessive weather helm issue? Any ideas or suggestions..???

Randy Church
Mental Floss
Narragansett Bay, Rhode Island

Back when I first started racing J-24s at the local yacht club one design olympic line. We called finishing dead last. D.F.L. I will let you feel in the blanks.

Allan12210 · Jul 23, 2012

We have the same issues with weather helm and do have to reef early in a stiff breeze. We also have the same keel as you but our jib is only a 110%. Our PHRF rating is 153 however. Sounds like you could take advantage of that low rating. How are you doing against your competition?

Barnacle Bill has great suggestions. You just have to experiment with them. Also make use of your outhaul. In a breeze you want that mainsail really flat. Don't use too much leech line either on the two sails or they will cup and create weather helm when you don't want it.

As for us, we don't race......Except...we got talked into the annual Boreas Race from San Francisco to Moss Landing (about 80 miles) on June 30 and July 1. We were in the cruising division so there was a motor allowance. First we were reefed going under the Golden Gate Bridge where we couldn't point as high as our competition. Once outside there was very light wind where our light boat started to do much better than the other guys (cruisers and PHRF racers). Finally on the second day with the wind dead astern between 15-25 knots we were surfing the 6' waves at 11.5 knots by then under main alone as we kept rounding up or accidentally jibing. What a ride. We had to dodge whales all the way across Monterey Bay. Buy a boom brake if you don't already have one. I know it sounds far fetched but we have the video and GPS track to prove it. My wife Debbie and I not only won our division, we were the overall winners as well. Pretty amazing for a couple of cruisers. I guess we do pay attention to the fine points of sailing after all. And it looks like our vintage H34 can win sometimes.

kloudie1 · Jul 24, 2012

Randy, is your compression post and deck beam under the mast OK? As mine began to slowly collapse, I could not maintain headstay tension and my pointing ability disappeared. I could tension pretty well at the slip but the mast base being "spongy" really messed up the headsail, especially in heavier air.

Dan Johnson · Jul 24, 2012

Randy...

Don't race my H34, but have been out in winds over 20 knots on occassionally. Have the shoal keel, standard 2-blade prop, and fly only a 110 up front.

In any sailing in winds over 20 on beam or broad reaches, I drop the main and use headsail only, sometimes rolled up to as much as only 70% exposed.

On the wind, rolled up headsail, flattened reefed main, traveller all the way down, and vang on. Doesn't point well but at least I'm comfortable.

Memorial Day weekend I was out by myself. In 18 knots apparent I had the jib track cars back, the main up full and flat, traveller centered. I was doing 7.2 SOG with a 20* heel and sliding off to leeward a good bit, but not fighting weather helm much. A quarter turn on the wheel isn't uncommon in heavier air; usually one spoke over is enough.

I have a 162 PHRF cert. from the previous owner. Two other h34's in our club fleet have had similar ratings and have performed well. A full complement of heavy rail meat is well advised.

VINN · Jul 24, 2012

i race my h34 all the time and do very well aganist a large assortment of boats my size and larger. dont expect to compete with a j35 but any production cruiser from the same era your boat will do very well if you tune it for the conditions. the 150 is only workable in winds 10 knots or less if you have a small crew, maybe 12k if you have 4 guys dedicated to the rail. i use a 126 for most of my racing in similar conditions with a small crew. reefing a big 150 upwind is not competitive with the big guns. with all things being equal your weather helm is usually caused by too much rake. when i first got mine 10 years ago it was uncontrolable in medium winds which made me ponder on why the wheel was slightly bent. it took me several years to figure it out. after checking my rake of 9" i had to lower it to 3" to get a acceptable rudder angle in 13knots app @ 18 degress of heel.. i do not use heavy rig tension either to prevent compression post problems. mine has stayed the same all these years with just a slight dimple near the post and it has never leaked water which probably saved it all these years. all shrouds are just firm for all conditions. i also have a 106 for 15k days. it points great with much lower rig loads. i had tennis elbow several times in the begining with that 150. make it easier for yourself and keep it under control with less canvas and heel. i agree with dan using just the jib for playing around. the 150 alone is pretty safe in 15 knots. my 106 is probably good for 20k. you will get it right soon or later like i did so just keep tweeking.

Dan Johnson · Jul 24, 2012

Hey Vinn...

Your info on the 150 is most interesting.

A 150 was on the furler when I bought the boat. First time out with it and an experienced crew in ten to twelve knots of wind, when I rolled it out it put the boat on its ear almost as soon as I began sheeting it in. Rolled up half way and it was almost useless from its bulky shape and poor trimming characteristics.

Its been sitting in a bedroom closet ever since!

VINN · Jul 24, 2012

i remember those days too dan. like the boat was injected with steroids. its very evident that the h34 is tender but its not slow. you just need more rail meat than the avg crusier. btw all my sailing comments are in apparent wind from the indicator. take off 3 knots on avg for true wind readings. the 150 and main are very useful up to 11k app. my 126 is 13k app, both with only 2 other persons aboard. the 106 is brand new and i havent tested it out in all conditions but it feels better than the 126 in 13k with only 15 degrees of heel versus 20... that the boats limit with a straight up mast setting. after that you need to reef the main. i wish i had more data from a company pro or from the designer. it would have saved me 10 years of trail and error. i included 2 photos with the 150 and 126 in light to medium winds, and im still working on it...

heart of gold · Aug 13, 2012

Mast rake

VINN said:
i race my h34 all the time and do very well aganist a l it took me several years to figure it out. after checking my rake of 9" i had to lower it to 3" to get a acceptable rudder angle in 13knots app @ 18 degress of heel..

Vinn, Just to clarify, you actually straightened the mast to 3 in pre bend or did you adjust the forestay forward 6 in. I'm wondering if I may not have this issue. I was sure that the pre bend in the mast is supposed to be 6in. Thanks in advance, Ian

Alan · Aug 14, 2012

Pre-bend is decided by the luff curve of the main. There is no 'one size fits all' pre-bend number. After matching the luff curve to pre-bend you will have the perfect combination. Reducing mast rake (not pre-bend) will reduce weather helm. Adding a backstay adjuster will aid in flattening the main and tightening the headstay at the same time. Both will increase pointing and decrease weather helm.
Playing the puffs at the helm along with playing the traveler will help to keep the boat on her feet while maintaining boat speed. A huge factor in racing is how well you tack the boat. Your goal is to keep boat speed loss after tacking to below one knot compared to before the tack is started. Coming out of a tack the boat needs time to accelerate again and the helm and sail trimmers need to make these adjutments during this critical time.

Dan Johnson · Aug 14, 2012

Re: Hunter 34 racing...

Allan's point on tacking is well taken. I drive a C&C 32 in club racing. Tacking the boat too fast scrubs off too much speed and looses time as the sails don't have time to fill and stay powered and the boat slows down too much.

Upwind, a smooth tack, letting the headsail be brought across by the wind angle change,briefly falling off more than the close-hauled angle, then bringing the boat's head back to the best angle of attack for the direction taken works best with this boat. It keeps boat speed up and allows the trimmers to get the sails into the best trim set (especially with a big headsail). Then we sail the telltales for best performance.

VINN · Aug 16, 2012

id like to clarify one of my recent posts on mast rake for anyone that needs some important info on the h34. i adjust it with the nut below my harken furler. just a few turns in millimeters can change the mast rake by several inches. i used some anchor chain hanging on the main haylard to inform me what kind of overhang i had over the boom, with the boat level, and with the wind still. my prebend is around 3" so my mast is almost straight up with the same 3" for mast rake. conventional wisdom in most rigging manuals state 1% of your p dimension is avg for a masthead rig which is around 4.92" for the h34. another way to put it would be in degrees the mast is laying back usually 1/2 to 1 degrees at the most. i like the feel of my boat near 0 because of helm position fully powered up. using a piece of tape on the center of the wheel you should have no more than 90 degrees or 3 and 9 oclock on the wheel with all sails trimmed up. at 15 degrees of heel thats easy for thr h34, but at 20 degrees it dramatically increases to over 180 degrees causing allot of rudder drag and weather helm. there are 3 ways to alleviate this condition. first put weight on the rail, and second use less canvas. with all other things being equal, if your still having problems measure your rake it could be too much for the area you sail in. for light winds rake is good but in medium winds it should be small for better balance.

Don Guillette · Aug 17, 2012

Alan: My good and old friend. Glad to see your post. Where have you been?

Ranchu56: The first thing that came to my mind when I read weather helm was "mast rake" and then I remembered I was on the HUNTER sight and I'm not that familiar with these boats. If it were the Catalina site, I'd have told you too mast rake is your problem. What happens when you rake the mast is the boat thinks you lifted up the mast and moved it aft and weather helm is the result of too much mast rake.

This is just a suggestion but next time your out sailing, leave the backstay alone and see what happens.

Where do you sail out of on Narragansett Bay, which is my old sailing ground?

Le Chasseur · Aug 20, 2012

I have a 1987 Hunter 34, Hull #1073 5' 6" fin keel. I have been racing sailboats for over 40 years. I bought my Hunter two years ago and immediately entered a Regatta. Winds were 20+ knots and with a double reefed main and a reefed 150 genoa I was still way overpowered. We did receive a 2nd place overall. I purchased a 130 and it is better sized for this boat. I still have two much weather helm in 15 knot winds. My local rigger, tighten up the forestay turnbuckle but I think I need to shorten the forestay wire to get better balance in stronger winds.

The Hunter 34 does well to windward. Cleaning a dirty bottom is the biggest single item to get better boat speed however a folding prop is a big performance enhancer. I have had good luck with Martec folding props over the years.

Fast Ed · Apr 22, 2013

Wow, NC PHRF gives my shoal draft a 150

Hi Randy,
I am guessing, based on your high PHRF rating, that you are getting some credit for a fixed blade prop. Changing to a folder will probably make a big difference. I agree with the other comments about eliminating any mast rake, and I also think that your 150 Genoa is a light air sail. You might consider getting a 135, or a blade for higher wind conditions.

My rating is 150, and I am able to do well with my shoal draft boat. I also sail in lighter air than you, and I get the bottom cleaned by a diver every month. Lastly, the comment about feathering up in the gusts is right on.
Fast Ed

ranchu56 said:
Hunter 34 owners,

Seeking comments and or advice regarding racing. Have read Don's book and have purchased adjustable genoa cars from Garhauer. Still managing to take last place consistently )-: My boat is a 1984 Hunter 34, split backstay, 5' 6" fin keel, 155 genoa (1 year old), main sail that is 3 years old and no spinnaker. I sail here in Rhode Island and have an assigned PHRF-NB rating of 172....which also happens to be the lowest rating in the fleet of 10 boats which means 'I owe everybody time'. My biggest issue is with weather helm. Wind blowing 17 knots tonight, main had 2 reefs, and genoa roller furled to approximately a 130. Had a quarter turn on the wheel fighting weather helm and it got worse at times and ended up being overpowered. Had the sails as flat as we could get them and handled overpower episodes by dropping the traveler first. 'None' of the other boats out tonight had a reef or a furled headsail. We're not AC crew quality but have been sailing/crewing long enough to know what we should be doing. Does anybody else have this consistent excessive weather helm issue? Any ideas or suggestions..???

Randy Church
Mental Floss
Narragansett Bay, Rhode Island

Guillaume C. · Apr 23, 2013

Weather helm is caused by the mis-alignment of propulsive(sail) and resistive(all else) forces. When the boat heel this mess up all alignement and architects gives the mast a "lead" over the keel to compensate. Unfortunatly it seems the guys at Hunter did not gives enought, so we are stuck with the weatherhelm problem

All that we can try is to minimise the mis-alignment by moving the propulsive forces(sail) forward and down ...or of course reducing heeling. Any way to accomplish this will reduce weather helm.

-mast rake: move the propulsives forces forward
-reefing: move the propulsives forces down
-rail meat: reduce heeling, hence reduce mis-alignment
-worn sail: the center of effort will usually move aft when the sail is worn(bad)
-buying new sails: different aerodynamic profile have different center of effort, move it forward! see your sail maker about this
-dodger/bimini: they too create resistives forces, addind to the problem

I did not compare both keel in real life, but from drawing it appears the shoal draft keel has it's leading edge at the same place as the deep draft, but it's trailing edge farther aft. This should also help a bit against weatherhelm

A somewhat more radical solution would be the addition of asymetrics fins on each sides of the transom. Close hauled the lee fin is immersed and the weather fin is out of the water. This basicly reduce the forces needed from the rudder, but has the advantage of doing so while creating less drag when the proper asymetric profile is choosen.

Anyway, back to the boat for more out-of-the-water fun.... wish I had a weather helm problem currently

Jared1048 · Apr 23, 2013

I have a 150 Genoa and 100% jibb. If the weather forecast is anything over 14 knots we swap out to the jibb on to the roller furling. We keep a full main as we have more ways of changing its shape.

Dan Johnson · Apr 25, 2013

Randy...

You can make the backstay modestly adjustable with a pair of blocks on the two splits linked by a hoop on which one block of a vang or cunningham rig is attached, with the block on the other end attached to a deck plate. Taking up on the line draws the two blocks down on the stays, adding more tension to the backstay than the static load.

The PO of the H356 next to me on the hard made up this rig. I can get a pix of it the next time I check on my boat (soon!) if that would help visualize this set-up.

Hunter 34 racing

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