Hunter 29.5 , offshore capacity ?

[Seasong]

Hello, I am french, and I have a possibility to buy a Hunter 29.5, which seems to be in good condition. Even if the goal is to sail quietly near the coasts for the moment, I would like to know if this kind of boat, well prepared and equipped, has the capacity to sail offshore, even to undertake more serious crossings or voyages? It doesn't have the look of old traditional sailboats, and the absence of a backstay seems a bit dubious to me, but I have had reviews from owners who speak of it as a very solid sailboat, safe, with correct navigation performances, in addition to the rather shallow draft which allows it to go in many places, and spacious in its sizes.
I would also like to know if it is possible occasionally to take aground / "beaching" with legs / crutches with this boat ? , since the keel seems to be quite wide at its base, and I read that there was a reinforcement in the hull for its fixation.
Thanks in advance if there are any answer of owners or knowers !
Fair winds

 

[Jackdaw]

Hello, I am french, and I have a possibility to buy a Hunter 29.5, which seems to be in good condition. Even if the goal is to sail quietly near the coasts for the moment, I would like to know if this kind of boat, well prepared and equipped, has the capacity to sail offshore, even to undertake more serious crossings or voyages? It doesn't have the look of old traditional sailboats, and the absence of a backstay seems a bit dubious to me, but I have had reviews from owners who speak of it as a very solid sailboat, safe, with correct navigation performances, in addition to the rather shallow draft which allows it to go in many places, and spacious in its sizes.
I would also like to know if it is possible occasionally to take aground / "beaching" with legs / crutches with this boat ? , since the keel seems to be quite wide at its base, and I read that there was a reinforcement in the hull for its fixation.
Thanks in advance if there are any answer of owners or knowers !
Fair winds

What coast?

While of OK build quality, you'll find the 29.5 a bit out of it league in the breezes off Brittany. As you note, the lack of sail controls (backstay, traveler bar, etc) will not help.

I image that the beaching legs from another boat could be added to the hull with some work. I know fir instance that they are available for my First 260 as a spare part.

 

[Siegener]

Hi Seasong,
have the boat a CE certificate? if yes, look inside there is the category A or B . A = ozean B= Offshore Zhe missing backstay is typical for Hunter and no problem. what kind of keel the boat have? twin keel is no problem to falling dry ( wadden sea )

 

[Seasong]

Hi,
Thanks for the replies,
The boat is in japan, i currently live there, my wife is from the country,
So i make some researches here, for a 27 /30 feet sailboat, enough for 1/2 persons at least, for coastal sailing /training, but i would like to keep the possibility to go offshore, maybe travelling later, crossing oceans, who knows!
Here in japan, there are some boats for sale, but not so much choice compared to europe /western countries of course. Mainly japanese boats, such as Yamaha 30, but this is more racers / cruisers, deep fin keep, but sturdy anyway.
And sometimes very few french boats (beneteau,..) , or american boats, such as Hunter, Catalina. This hunter is for sale at a quite reasonable price in yens/dollars. It is a keel boat (draft 1,22m) . For the moment i have not more infos, i will certainly visit it in october. But i have some precautions of course, if it can be appropriate to my research. As i said, if well prepared, equiped. I had different opinions, some owners saying that it's a very capable, solid and good cruiser. Few ones (not owners generally!) saying it is more for coastal, daily sailing, or even for "party"...lol. I don't think we can say that, but of course many productions modern boats are not "made for travelling, crossing oceans". Anyway, many do the job, depending on the capacities of the sailor also, of course!
The link of the boat

Hunter 29.5 ハンター29.5 ｜中古ヨット・中古セーリングヨット｜中古艇市場

中古Hunter 29.5 ハンター29.5 の販売情報

chukotei.jp

 

[Siegener]

ok, the price is without Tax ! seems in good condition. make a visit and listen to your feeling

 

[Seasong]

Yes, i know the total price with tax. I will see, no boat is perfect, but this one is on my list. And of course more easy to know the boat, with an english manual or owners talking also other langage than japanese..lol.

 

[Sailm8]

I own a 29.5 and use it for coastal cruising on Florida's West coast. It is a perfect boat for 2 persons. We can easily stay out 10 days with 40gal water tank (daily showers and washing dishes). I would have no problem sailing to say Cuba or the Bahamas but farther than that no way. We have been in some tremendous seas and winds and it handled it without problems. These are Florida storms meaning of short duration but high intensity. I have never been in a severe storm that lasted days except at anchor. We have a custom rig. Furling mast and traveler on the cabin top. .

 

[Seasong]

Sailm8, thank you for your feedback. For cruising offshore /long distance, this is no way for you, because it is not your "motivation" or because of the boat ? The size ( 30 feet is considered to be small by many, or enough for others, it depends on every sailor!) , or the type of boat ?
For beaching occasionnaly (cleaning the hull on a beach or inspection in tidal waters,..), the wing keel looks strong, but it seems to be a lead wing keel mixed with fiberglass moulded to the hull, so i don't know if it is strong enough for that.

 

[Sailm8]

When the yard pulls my boat it rests on blocks under the keel. It will not balance there and they use jack stands to balance it. The wing keel is plenty strong enough to support the weight. If you are asking about careening the boat on its side, I don;t believe it can be done without damage.
As far as offshore long distance sailing it is your boat and your choice. I don't believe the boat is built for the unexpected you might face offshore. Fair winds

 

[Seasong]

Yes i think that most of the "commercial production boats, such as Hunter, beneteau, catalina etc,produce sailboats for "day cruising, week end, holidays. Not really ships to go offshore in general. Maybe owners could say the same about the First 28 ou 30 in france, catalina 27 or smaller boats. But some sailors go travelling with these boats (well prepared, ..) sometimes for years, with not so much troubles. Even on "catas caravans", not really said to by offshore cruisers. Maybe we could considerate the same for Hunters ? I know that the hunter 326 is "said "blue water sailboat, and it seems to have quite the same characteristics as the Hunter 29.5 for example, in a smaller size. So maybe not a too bad plan to considerate the possibility. In my case, whatever the type of boat, i have sailed essentially sailboats from 26 to 30 feet. And this is the size that i prefer, even for travelling or ocean passages, by preference (one or two people on board only ) , and also for budget reasons of course. I know that some sailors (called crazy by some others), go far travelling on smaller boats

 

[jssailem]

Consideration for an off shore boat has many aspects. You mention "Well prepared". Yes you can do things internally like make sure you have enough water and food storage. What is inherent in the boat is the design.

The design of the Hunter 29.5 was not as an off shore boat. Sail boat data provides some numbers that help to examine the boat design.

Comfort Ratio:​

This is a ratio created by Ted Brewer as a measure of motion comfort. It provides a reasonable comparison between yachts of similar size and type. It is based on the fact that the faster the motion the more upsetting it is to the average person. Consider, though, that the typical summertime coastal cruiser will rarely encounter the wind and seas that an ocean going yacht will meet.​

Numbers below 20 indicate a lightweight racing boat;​

20 to 30 indicates a coastal cruiser;​

30 to 40 indicates a moderate bluewater cruising boat;​

40 to 50 indicates a heavy bluewater boat;​

over 50 indicates an extremely heavy bluewater boat.​

​

Capsize Screening Formula (CSF):​

Designed to determine if a boat has blue water capability. The CSF compares beam with displacement since excess beam contributes to capsize and heavy displacement reduces capsize vulnerability. The boat is better suited for ocean passages (vs coastal cruising) if the result of the calculation is 2.0 or less. The lower the better.​

The Hunter 29.5 has the following numbers.
Comfort Ratio: 18.23
Capsize Screening Formula: 2.15

On a blue water boat you will find a design that accommodates the open ocean conditions by design. A place to start is to understand the boats that are typically founded in open ocean cruising. Bluewaterboats.org - Sailboat reviews for offshore sailing

You, the sailor, are the determining factor. If you can handle the quick motion of the Hunter and are willing to take on the adventure, you may be able to sail her across an open passage. But you will need to be up day and night to manage the helm and modify the rig to handle the conditions presented in open ocean. At least more than is required on a blue water designed boat.

Opinions are provided at the cost of admission. And should be valued at what you paid for the admission.

 

[Seasong]

Hello,
thank you for your interesting answer, I already know a little about these calculations which seem quite objective, and the sailboatdata site. Of course, a heavier displacement boat will in principle be more stable and with less risk of capsizing compared to a lighter displacement. In reality, even in France or other countries, I know many sailors who have gone far, even traveling with ocean crossings on boats from 26 to 31 feet which do not reach the minimum required to have the minimum stability and capsize ratio to be considered coastal cruisers at least, apart from a few. For example I know some French people or other nationalities who travelled, crossing oceans on First 28 or 25, Armagnac plywood 26 feet, several Beneteau, Jeanneau, kelt marine, around 8 or 9 meters to name a few, and which also remains below the minimum stability, as well as above the minimum capsize ratio advised on the site. And yet from what I know they were not very experienced sailors, sometimes even beginners who did not complain that much about their boat and the sailing , even if indeed it must have shaken more sometimes compared to heavier travel, and they had to be more careful to the weather forecast certainly. Are they unconscious or crazy, I don't know, but according to my research there are not so many boats considered offshore "blue water" according to this kind of criteria, apart from a few rare or more expensive, like the Vancouver 28, island packets or few others. Even the Albin Vega or the Com pac 27, considered to be quality cruisers, with offshore sailing, do not have sufficient figures to be above the coastal cruisers. It's up to everyone to see, surely

 

[jssailem]

Not sure what your trying to say. Have individuals sailed small boats across oceans. Yes. Is there a level of risk? Yes in a small boat as well as a large boat. More often than not the survival in a boat is more about the sailor than the boat. Still there is sailing enjoyment and there is just getting by possibly.

Each sailor makes his/her own decision. Sets up their boat for success or failure. When you untie the lines it is up to you. I favor setting up the trip (boat and all the provisions) the best I can for success. Choosing a boat with a full keel will aid in the boat working hard so I won’t have to. Choosing a protected rudder on a skeg is one lesser worry. Having adequate water supply and a sound thick hull. All decisions.
Good luck with your decisions.

 

[Sailfanatic]

I would simply say this boat is extremely unsuitable for offshore sailing, just not a boat an knowledgeable sailor would consider buying for that purpose. As a relatively inexpensive means to go coastal cruising, perhaps...

How inadequate can a name brand boat be for various uses, for even local daysailing yet alone offshore?? You might read this survey to get some inkling of the types of issues, which can distinguish a boat as suitable for certain uses or not, in the particular case, for even inshore daysailing, ending with "...if all you're going to do is sail around the pond on balmy days, its probably fine for that. A serious deep water sailor she's not. "

Hunter 28 - Boat Review by David Pascoe, Marine Surveyor

Hunter had finally got the grid liner right in this 1991 model. While this is unquestionably a low price boat, overall it seemed to be fairly well built and there were no problems with the framing system at all.

www.yachtsurvey.com

 

[Seasong]

Of course I have already read this kind of point of view on certain commercial boats, this is precisely the reason why I post a question, having myself doubts about the qualities of the boat in question to go offshore , and I know that basically it is coastal cruiser. Afterwards I had rather positive opinions from owners of the hunter 29.5, considering that it is a very solid boat among others, and as I said there are boats which are not specially made for offshore, even more small and light, but still travel far, once properly prepared and maneuvered. There is also a difference between some boats produced and others, I have also read a lot of information that says that hunters of more recent years, after 1990 like the Hunter 29.5 have quite a few qualities and less of problems than older productions like the hunter 28 of the article certainly. After , of course, it's up to everyone to decide what they want to try or not

 

[jssailem]

I enjoyed reading the David Pascoe review. It seemed balanced and articulate. Granted it was done in 1998, some 5 years later than the 1993 boat under consideration. David points out that the pre 1991 boats were dealing with a different design. That in 91 the Hunter construction shifted to what David calls a better grid pan. Still the idea of the stiff grid pan, as I understand, was to be able to lighten the hull construction thus saving costs.

A thin hull with no way to address a leak without cutting a hole in the pan liner gives some ocean sailors pause.

I concur with David's remarks about open ocean sailing.

"The average weekend sailor, lacking much heavy weather experience, has no idea of the terror he may be in for when he makes the mistake of venturing far from shore in what is nothing more than a day sailor. Those of you who get ideas about "bluewater voyaging" in a bargain boat like this would do well to reconsider that the ocean remains a dangerous place."​

It is up to each boat owner, despite the certifications of Ocean / Coastal qualified status, to decide where and how to sail their boat. Some of us may be more cautious than others. Perhaps we all arrive at the same safe harbor after a passage. Most sailors do arrive, most of the time, where they intend.

 

[Seasong]

As I said I have no precise estimate on this kind of boat, I inquire, and instinctively it is precisely because I know that it is about a coastal boat that I search , to have opinions /infos. Some go in your direction and others less. For example at the moment, in Japan I am looking at some other boats for sale too, which indeed seem to me more reliable for this kind of program, even if no boat is perfect, Like a Com pac 27, several Yamaha 30 or a "scampi" which are fairly reliable Japanese boats, close to the First 30 Bénéteau, several of which have sailed around the world without too many problems, and yet it is a cruiser racer, almost the same weight as the Hunter 29.5. Of course it's still modest sizes, but as I said there have been great trips on small and light boats, at their own risk of course. Another article to illustrate a somewhat opposite opinion of the article on the hunter 28: The makings of a bluewater boat - Ocean Navigator . In the end, everyone has their own choices and consequences, positive or not. But I think that no boat is not without risk at sea as near the coast, with heavy displacement or not

 

[jssailem]

the ocean remains a dangerous place."

Says it all.

A writer I enjoy on boats and their use in cruising activities is John Harries at Front Page

He has some free content and a wealth of data from his many years of sailing experience. He might interest you and help you with your quest.

 

[Seasong]

Basically I know more or less the kind of boat that interests me the most for my project, but we also do with the conditions , place, and the boats that we find or not. I have sailed on various sailboats from around 20 to 35 feet, as a crew or solo, but I consider that I still have to improve myself. I especially like the "pocket cruisers" between 27 and 30 feet as I said, and if I could choose the place and the boat exactly, it would surely not be in Japan. In those that are my favorites are the Albin vega 27, the Pearson triton 28, the Vancouver 27 , cape dory 28 or others of this kind. The few in Japan that come closest to it in my current research are perhaps a Com pac 27, or a yamaha scampi. Otherwise, I will have to move elsewhere to find the right one, or find a not too bad one here of course

 

[jssailem]

I had a Montgomery 15. A true pocket cruiser. Even though a 20 something sailed one in the 70’s from LA to Hawaii that 15 ft boat is not an open ocean cruiser. In the PacificNW lakes, rivers and Sounds it was great. But it was a small boat for one. And too small for 2 unless they are really close and young.

I suspect you will find your boat. The fellow John Harries came up with a different way of finding your boat. Define what you believe the boat should be able to do. Not what it is or the equipment it has. Once you can identify your dreams, cruising nature, then you can identify the boat.