Hunter 280 - Not enough sheaves & clutches to run all lines aft - which ones do you prioritize?

[rhiggins]

Hello everyone - this is my first post, but I've spent hours consuming a lot of helpful info on these forums. About two months ago I moved up from a 1986 Catalina 25 to a 1996 Hunter 280 and I've been working through a long to-do list while trying to sail her as much as time will allow. My C25 had hank-on headsails so I'm loving the roller furling while my wife is loving the wheel steering (C25 was tiller).

As for my question, the owners manual has a diagram of the standard rigging:

However, the previous owner had modified this a bit. Both my first and second reefing lines are simply coiled and hanging where they exit the boom next to the mast. Where the diagram shows the first and second reef lines, instead I have the outhaul and topping lift leading aft. I do have the optional traveler and spinnaker so I am using those two spots for the main sheet and spin halyard.

Before I change it back to the standard configuration, I'm interested to hear what you think about this setup and what others may have done. When reefing, I still have to leave the cockpit go to the mast to hook the cringle so having the reef lines up there isn't creating an unnecessary trip.....

What are your thoughts? Is it more important to have the reefing lines led aft than the outhaul and topping lift? If so, how/where do you tie/stow those when you aren't adjusting them?

Thanks all,

-Rob

 

[sail sfbay]

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your new Hunter 280!!

Is your topping lift a "control" line? If not, then tie it off on a cleat on the mast, if there is one. That is what I do to my topping lift. My preference is to have all the "control" lines, including outhaul, reefing lines, boom vang, halyards, sheets, etc. run aft. Do you have enough hardware, including turning blocks and rope clutches to do that? If not you might consider adding them.

 

[jeepbluetj]

... When reefing, I still have to leave the cockpit go to the mast to hook the cringle so having the reef lines up there isn't creating an unnecessary trip.....

I think you answered your own question. You're already there to hook the cringle, may as well pull the reef line too, unless you need a winch or something for it and you don't have one on the mast. I'd guess a 280 you can just pull it. I'd guess that was the logic for putting the reef lines at the mast.

It'd be different if you could fully reef from the cockpit.

Depending on your sailing style, you may find you adjust the outhaul quite a bit. I cannot think of the last time I adjusted a topping lift. On my C-30 I completely removed it when I installed a solid vang.

 

[rgranger]

I had a similar desire for my H26 so I added a second set of 3 rope clutches and a second organizer on the port side. I couldn't find pictures of the clutches but here are a few of the orgnizer instal. On the H26 there is a glassed in aluminum plate for this purpose and you just need to tap some threads.... easy peasy. I can now run six lines back to my cockpit through the organizers plus the genoa sheets through standing blocks.

Starboard I have the main halyard, outhaul & keel lift line.

Port I have the topping lift, and the tack and clew reef lines.

It is a really nice set up. I really like being able to adust the outhaul without leaving the cockpit... and likewise on the reefing lines. @Dave Groshong helped me get the right size rope clutches and he was very paitient with me as I worked through the measurements.

 

[rhiggins]

Is your topping lift a "control" line? If not, then tie it off on a cleat on the mast, if there is one

Yes, there is a cleat on the mast so I could definitely do that to free up space for one of the reef lines. I also failed to mention that I can make small adjustments to the topping lift at the end of the boom... Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[rhiggins]

On the H26 there is a glassed in aluminum plate for this purpose

Wow that's awesome. I'll have to check but I don't think I have those on the 280. I hope I do, but then I'll feel like the least observant person I know....

 

[Sailfanatic]

I would prioritize the reefing lines ( reef 1, reef 2 and main halyard) as those lines where operating from the cockpit is most valuable, since its often when the weather is a little rough. If you have four clutches, I'd use the fourth to run a line a tack line for the first reef, that way you could do the first reef entirely from the cockpit. Unless racing I set the outhaul setting out, then only rarely for significant changes in wind velocity. I adjust the topping lift once at the start of the season.

 

[jssailem]

Hi @rhiggins .
Congrats on your new to you boat. Nice that your wife enjoys the upgrade.

When you sail on your lake do you use the reefing very much? Especially the 2nd reef? If not then I would wonder why fuss with them. I am bias. I believe doing the reefing at the mast is a good thing. Firstly, there have been fewer than I can count on 1 hand that when I have changed the sail set up i.e. reefed, that something has not hung up. To think that you can stand in the cockpit and reef your sail without a line fouling or a sail fold not sitting correctly is in my mind a waist of time.

My idea is it is better to get to the mast early. Reef before I need to. Do it with safety gear on (tether, PFD, etc.) Check the boat for loose gear or lines before the blow hits. Secure all gear and get back into the cockpit.

Have you or a crew member ever left a line unsecured on the bow? Sure no problem when the breeze is mild. But when the wind picks up in a squall or a thunder storm that loose line can become a flying snake ready to bite you.

Since running lines to the cockpit is important and you have the necessary hardware, prioritize the lines to running lines that help manage the sail. If you need to be at the mast then focus all the lines that need to be tended to one side of the mast. For instance, from the port side of the mast; I can raise and lower the main, reef the main sail, adjust the Cunningham and Vang, adjust the topping lift and the port side lazy jacks. This arrangement simplifies my tasks and makes me more efficient in my sail trim work.

You just need to prioritize your tasks and then make the rigging adapt to the way you sail not some set up thought up by a designer in the planning stages of a boat. Sure they were smart, but so are you.

 

[rgranger]

Hi @rhiggins .
To think that you can stand in the cockpit and reef your sail without a line fouling or a sail fold not sitting correctly is in my mind a waist of time.

Hey @jssailem
Is your main's foot traditional or loose? I have not had any trouble reefing from the cockpit but I've only had my current setup since changing to a loose footed main. I wonder if your foulings have something to do with the main's foot. ?

I have the main halyard marked with a sharpie line so I know where to drop it for the reef, then I pull on the tack line followed by the clew line and my reef is done. Sinch up the main halyard a bit and I'm off. Once things have settled a little I tie up the foot with the lines in the sail.

 

[jssailem]

Thanks for the question.
My main was traditionally attached to the boom, now it is loose footed.

My comments about snagging or hanging up come from the many times I have been on friends boats with the running rigging channeled to the cockpit. Ever try to raise a mainsail that gets caught up in the lazy jack. You let the main halyard go but the sail fails to drop back to the boom. So what do you do. You jump out of the cockpit and address the issue by hauling down on the sail. Clear the foul then go back to the cockpit to hoist. But now there is a bend in the loosened halyard and it jams. So back out of the cockpit.

Does this happen every time, NO. But it happens enough times that you need to be observant and be ready to leave the cockpit.

What about the winch... Ever need to haul in the main halyard using the winch? Or station a crew member at the mast to assist the halyard pull due to unexplained friction in the system. I have.

I understand the concept of cockpit halyard management says, "you will be safer managing your sails from your cockpit". I think that is a false hope. I announced I have a bias at the beginning. I train to do what needs to be done. I need to have the skill and strength to raise the sails. I need to be aware of my boat and keep it neat even if I have an issue on the bow during a blow.

Check out the challenges of Bill and his crew in the posted video here.

Caught in a Storm

Raced on Galveston Bay last Sunday. Forecast was for 30% chance of thunderstorms. It looked like a passing shower on the second leg, In about five minutes it turned into a super cell exploding in size over the top of us. I'm sure we did a lot wrong and Captain Flawless and Captain Obvious will...

forums.sailboatowners.com

Bill's boat has the running rigging serviced from the cockpit. Even so he has a crew member (no PFD, no tether) at the mast trying to address the needs to reef and then secure the main. Once main is secure, look at the video with the rigging and sheets flying about the bow, tangling in the wind, as the squall passes over them.

Sure it was sudden and it was stronger than anticipated, but that is what happens during a squall/thunder storm. One needs to consider how to deal with the issue. You can not tell me that when the squall has passed through that the running rigging will some how magically become untangled and that the crew can stay safely in the cockpit.

This is not to besmirch Bill and his crew nor to say rigging management from the cockpit is wrong. My thoughts are that the assumption of handling all your controls from the cockpit magically make your tasks simpler or safer is riddled with false hopes.

It is good seamanship of the skipper that understands the benefits and limitations and then plans for the situations.

 

[Tally Ho]

Nice boat… my first boat was a H280.
I don’t recall exactly what my clutch set up was…

My current boat has 2) 4x clutches…

Spin halyard
vang
reef 1
jib furling line (just tried this setup this year….like It so far.

Main halyard
Main sheet
reef 2
outhaul


I seldom use the spinnaker
i seldom move the vang
i seldom move the outhaul (maybe loosen in light wind)
I seldom sail when I need reef 2
my topping lift is cleated off at the mast. I seldom move it.

Maybe I am lazy…

I raise the main sail, use the traveller, set reef if I have to (or fly under jib only),

Greg