In this thread there are those (including myself) who are pointing out some of those compromises just for the potential buyers. We are not neccessarily bashing the Hunter, just pointing out the compromises.
OK, sorry if I harshed on you. I got crapped on so much over in the macgregorsailors.com forum for bringing up all the problems I had with the 26M I bought that I'm a little defensive. This was made even worse by their yanking my access and putting an IP filter so I couldn't log back in when I continued to discuss my incredibly negative experiences with the 26M and how MacGregor refused to stand behind their warranty. Anyway let's just leave that in the past as it gets me worked up just thinking about it....
I don't have the MacFurler or even the CDI, I went all out and got the Schaefer Snapfurl CF700, a far superior furler system.
I only kept the MacFurler because I was losing a bit of $ by dumping the 26M and wanted to keep the costs down. How do you like the Schaefer?
I've been looking at the Facnor and ProFurl. I was sort of intrigued by the continuous line furlers but now I'm thinking twice about them. Discussions I've seen seem to indicate that keeping tension on the line is a consideration.
Given the size of my sail (a 150% Genoa) I've also looked into a Gennaker Furler like the Facnor FXs. These use a torque rope with a swivel at the top instead of a rigid tube or flexible strip. I'm still trying to learn more about them.
There is no genoa track on the cockpit combing to mount a genoa car/block to run the genoa sheet through and then back to the winch. You cannot be running your genoa sheet through the jib block that is mounted forward of the mast as that would just not work. I can only assume you are bringing the genoa aft to the winch directly without first running it through a car/block on a track. The major work I refer to is a track mounted on the cockpit combing on which one would attach the genoa car/block.
Still not sure I understand you. The jib blocks that come standard on the 27E are on top of the cabin aft of the mast, not forward of it. I do, in fact, run my genoa sheet through these, then back to the cam cleat mounted just behind them. These are inline with the winches, so it is definitely possible to run the sheet through the block and cam cleat then back to the winch.
I never found much utility in the tracks the 26M has. Most of the time I use my genoa more like a jib, so I always set the blocks in one position and left them there. Admittedly, I'm into cruising not racing, but I don't see any real issue for most people. Even when I furled the genoa out a bit more I haven't had any real issue except for sailing downwind.
Given the locations of the block, whether it was on a track or not, I found that with a 150% genoa I own when sailing downwind I can't open it out all the way. I bought track mounted rotating cam cleats for the 26M which went into tracks on the gunwale at the cockpit. These have a hex nut fastener, not a quick release so once installed for the season I never moved them so their is not much utility in their being on tracks if you want to reposition them rapidly. In order to open the genoa up full when sailing downwind I'd pull the genoa sheet out of the track mounted pulley and run it outboard of the stays and directly into these cleats. That let me sail wing on wing with the genoa fully open and the main all the way out.
I can't do that at present with the Hunter, but I kept the track mounted cleats from the 26M. I'm planning on getting a couple of bails which I can attach to the base of the lifeline stanchions at the front of the cockpit. I plan on mounting blocks on them. I'm also going to get 2ft of T track, cut it in half, and put 1 ft of it on the cockpit gunwales even with the pedestal. By doing this I will be able to run the genoa sheet from the block on top of the deck, through the block at the base of the lifeline stanchion, and into the rotating track monuted cam cleats. This will leave both sheets where I can reach them from the captain's chair. When sailing with the wind abeam this should be fine.
For sailing downwind I'll still have to pull the sheet back out and run it outside of the stays. In that case I plan to run it to the blocks mounted on the lifeline stanchions then back to the rotating track mounted cam cleats in order to be able to let the genoa out full.
I don't anticipate this modification taking more than 30 minutes or so to install and it will cost under $100. So I don't consider this a big deal.
The amount of extra interior room is significant, the Mac is a skinny boat and it has been thorn in my side since day one. But it's not just me and my wife who think this. I noticed the extra room when I inspected it at the boat show.
There is one common thread that runs through all models of Hunter sailboats that I have noticed. They all appeal to the female side of the buying decision. Hunter folks were smart enough to realize early on in the game that if the wife did not approve, the sale would not take place, so they built an interior that would WoW a woman in all their models but in so doing they neglected some of the rigging issues that appeal to the male side of the buying decision.
You are correct about the space limitations on a Mac so I would never have 6 people aboard when sailing, to be honest, it is only my wife and I so there is never more than two,
When we decided to upgrade from the Potter 19 it was in large part because we found it so cramped with 4 people on it. If you look at the 26M's marketing materials you'll see that in the summary specification chart they list "Berths (sleeps 6)". In the color glossy brochure they say the "cabin itself will seat 8 or more people", "will sleep a total of 6 adults", etc. The high pressure salesmen told us that 6 people could fit comfortably in the cockpit when sailing.
I'll admit it was foolish of me to have bought into all this, but having only had a 19ft boat and seeing the 26M on a trailer at an indoor boat show it was hard to really judge that despite the larger cockpit it really would not accomodate 6 people comfortably as they claimed...
I am acutely aware of the MacGregor's shortcomings because I have had to rectify many of them. Those sharp edges in the bilges you mentioned that gave you all the cuts in your hand - one of the first mods I did was to sand and file all those sharpies out and then paint a heavy coat of white gel coat over the entire bilge surface so that my wife could put stores in them.
I'm betting this took a lot of time. My experiences with conversing with other Mac owners seem to have a commonality. In general they all seem to indicated spending a lot of time fixing the boat's shortcomings, adding things because it is sold stripped, or fixing things that break. Those I've spoken with all seem to have the attitude that this isn't a big deal.
IMHO though the time spent on these things adds up. Perhaps I got spoiled by how little initial work and ongoing maintenance I had to do on my Potter. In the 6 years I owned that boat I spent 98+% of my time sailing it. Even though I got the 26M fairly loaded, and certainly as a result of how badly the dealer who sold it to me screwed it up, I spent 1/2 my time working on it. When I wasn't tearingout and reinstalling stuff the dealer botched I was having to modify it due to some shortcoming I found with it or fixing something that broke.
So in this regard the Hunter 27E Edge has been a big win for me. Yes I plan to do some customization work. I already put in a VHF radio and antenna. That took about 2 hours. Probably would have taken less if I hadn't been working on it while it was on the mooring. Always takes me longer to do work when I'm not on dry land. I might relocate the stereo since I don't like having electrics under the sink. I'm thinking of putting a glove box type unit where it is now to hold small stuff I need to get to in a hurry. I also plan to add shore power and the battery charger I kept from the 26M since, again due to how much $ I lost on the 26M debacle, I didn't get it with this installed. Other than that and the gunwale T track there isn't much other work or customization I'd find necessary to suit my needs....
When I tow my Mac I am only at 80% of the max tow capacity for Class 3 so I have a 20% margin of safety, something I would not have towing the Hunter Edge. I would prefer a class 4 setup for the Hunter thank you.
There is a common perception that if something is rated for a certain towing capacity that you shouldn't tow up to that capacity but should leave yourself a "margin of safety". This is a misconception. Do you have any idea how many lawyers work for car companies? And how many other lawyers there are out there that would be happy to sue one if a vehicle didn't perform to it's rated capacity. You can bet your life that when a car company rates the towing capacity of a vehicle it is designed to handle a lot more than the rated capacity.
Take VW for example. VW got sued for the Touareg when it had been on the market only a couple of years. They said it could tow 7700lbs (which it could) but they didn't correctly specify the tongue weight. They lost big, had to pay the lawsuit and change their commercials so it wouldn't show them towing something that exceeded the toungue weight the Touareg was capable of. This is the only instance of a major lawsuit I can recall in my life stemming from a vehicle that didn't tow what its manufacturer claimed it could.
When GM/Chevy, Dodge, Ford, Toyota, etc. say they can tow 5000lbs they can tow 5000lbs. You don't need to keep a margin of safety because no auto company is going to expose themselves to the enormous liability that would be inherent in saying their car could tow 5000lbs and having it fail if someone tried towing 5100lbs. While I wouldn't try it, I'm sure that my 4Runner was designed with a true capacity of at least 20% more than what it is rated for, and probably more like 50% given how much commercial contractors use their vehicles. So I'm not worried one bit that my class 3 hitch from Master Lock and my Toyota 4Runner can't safely tow the Edge which is rated at 4920lbs when outfitted with an engine heavier than mine and options I don't have.
All boats are a compromise of some sort, be they power or sail and the potential buyer needs to be aware of what the compromises are so that they can focus on the ones that apply to them.
I heartily second this statement.
In my opinion the root cause of my extreme dissatisfaction with the 26M was that I had a good idea of what I wanted and the 26M's marketing materials promised that the boat was what I was looking for when it was not. I also feel that the reason I've so far been extremely satisfied with the Hunter 27E Edge despite the fact that it is very similar to the 26M is that it actually fulfills those things I thought I was getting with the 26M which it fell short of. Things such as seating capacity, interior room, fit, finish, etc...
In my mind the differences between the 26M and the Hunter 27E Edge are like the differences between a low priced, no frills car and a higher priced mid market car. Neither one is in the top of the line luxury or high performance class and to pretend so (not that Capt Kermie is, but that some marketing materials may imply one of the boats is more than it really is) is misleading. The lower priced car will perform reasonably well but be less comfortable and have fewer bells and whistles. The higher priced car may perfom better (or not), be more comfortable and have more extras or upscale features. Many people will choose the lower priced one figuring the differences between the two don't justify the extra cost. Others will choose the higher priced one because they're willing to pay the difference for the extras which they deem important.
Did I pay more for these things? Definitely. Was it worth the extra $ to me to have these? Yes. Would someone else agree that it was worth the extra $? See Capt. Kermie's above statement and mine...
ttfn,
Dr. Beer
) very easily. About 45 min out she couldn't take it anymore. The dramamine she took just wasn't helping. So we powered up and headed back in. We got back in a lot faster because we had the outboard and she was very glad for it
