I recently purchased a 2004 Hunter 260 - my second rudder has cracked within 3 months of the original rudder completely failing while under sail. The problem starts with the coating on the top of the rudder beginning to split - I'm assuming that water then penetrates into the rudder and weakens the rudder from the inside out. The first time this happened the boat rounded up so hard all three of the crew grabbed on to the lifelines to avoid being thrown out of the boat. The second time I noticed the defect before we left the slip and called the dealer for a replacement rudder. Had I not had the first experience I would probably not have checked the rudder so closely - good thing for my 2 1/2 year old nephew who was waiting to go sailing. Has anyone else experienced similar rudder defects on any recent 260 models?
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R
ross
rudder
I've had the H260 rudder replaced by Hunter twice. All three rudders split on the top as you describe. All the replacements had the same poor design/materials. I bought the HDPE rudder from Idasailor.com over the winter. I've only sailed with it a few days, but so far seems to be much sturdier and works well.
I've had the H260 rudder replaced by Hunter twice. All three rudders split on the top as you describe. All the replacements had the same poor design/materials. I bought the HDPE rudder from Idasailor.com over the winter. I've only sailed with it a few days, but so far seems to be much sturdier and works well.
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ross(the other)
trim?
I have a 5 year old 240, no problems at all. I don't know if the rudders are exactly the same, but they are close. How does your boat handle? Do you have excessive weather helm? When you say the boat rounded up hard when it first happened makes me wonder about your sail trim and/or mast rigging. A properly trimmed boat should put very little pressure on the tiller, therefore little stress on the rudder. Rudder position when it is down makes a world of difference on how the tiller feels and how much strain is on the rudder also. Check out the link for some good info on rudder balance for your 260. Look at the .jpg file. ross
I have a 5 year old 240, no problems at all. I don't know if the rudders are exactly the same, but they are close. How does your boat handle? Do you have excessive weather helm? When you say the boat rounded up hard when it first happened makes me wonder about your sail trim and/or mast rigging. A properly trimmed boat should put very little pressure on the tiller, therefore little stress on the rudder. Rudder position when it is down makes a world of difference on how the tiller feels and how much strain is on the rudder also. Check out the link for some good info on rudder balance for your 260. Look at the .jpg file. ross
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MToran
Thank You
Thank you for both of your responses. Good to hear I'm not alone on this one. I love the boat except for this rudder issue. Given as how Ross has had the same thing happen to him three times in the same place - I'm thinking this is not a trim issue. The after market rudder seems like a great idea. Did Hunter agree to pay any of the difference on this or at least admit that they have an issue with their current rudder supplier?
Thank you for both of your responses. Good to hear I'm not alone on this one. I love the boat except for this rudder issue. Given as how Ross has had the same thing happen to him three times in the same place - I'm thinking this is not a trim issue. The after market rudder seems like a great idea. Did Hunter agree to pay any of the difference on this or at least admit that they have an issue with their current rudder supplier?
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ross
rudder
After the third rudder, I quit pursuing the issue with Hunter. I was going to repair the original rudder, but went with the plastic rudder instead. Attached is a photo of rudder #3 showing the crack across the top.
After the third rudder, I quit pursuing the issue with Hunter. I was going to repair the original rudder, but went with the plastic rudder instead. Attached is a photo of rudder #3 showing the crack across the top.
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Mark
The cracked rudder problem.
Same happened to me and a new one was sent out within a week. However!! I am wondering if part of this rudder cracking problem is caused by the skipper not tightening up the "wing" nut really really tight. So what happens is lots of stress is placed on the rudder without any compression to hold it together. Just a thought.
Same happened to me and a new one was sent out within a week. However!! I am wondering if part of this rudder cracking problem is caused by the skipper not tightening up the "wing" nut really really tight. So what happens is lots of stress is placed on the rudder without any compression to hold it together. Just a thought.
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Mtoran
Hunter Response
Just heard from the Hunter manufacturer on this issue. They have been cutting up rudders at the factory trying to determine the issue. Two issues have come up: 1) Some wooden blocks were installed incorrectly in some rudders. 2) They have replaced the foam with puddy at the top of the rudder. They have found the foam cracks easily allowing water to enter the rudder. They said you can tap the rudder to determine the correct location of the blocks. When I receive the new replacement rudder I will let you know how it works. Thanks
Just heard from the Hunter manufacturer on this issue. They have been cutting up rudders at the factory trying to determine the issue. Two issues have come up: 1) Some wooden blocks were installed incorrectly in some rudders. 2) They have replaced the foam with puddy at the top of the rudder. They have found the foam cracks easily allowing water to enter the rudder. They said you can tap the rudder to determine the correct location of the blocks. When I receive the new replacement rudder I will let you know how it works. Thanks
B
Bob Blais
The same here
I have a 2003 260 that I noticed starting cracking last fall. Contacted Hunter and they have sent me a replacement. I just installed it this past weekend so I have no knew news on how this one is. Thankfully the folks at Hunter are very helpful and supportive.
I have a 2003 260 that I noticed starting cracking last fall. Contacted Hunter and they have sent me a replacement. I just installed it this past weekend so I have no knew news on how this one is. Thankfully the folks at Hunter are very helpful and supportive.
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MToran
Rudder Problems
Bob, The Hunter rep said you could tap the rudder to determine if it was defective or not. Could not hurt to give them a call regarding your new rudder.
Bob, The Hunter rep said you could tap the rudder to determine if it was defective or not. Could not hurt to give them a call regarding your new rudder.
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crazy dave
Rudders
The rudders are made by another vender whom I have known for many years. There were some rudders that were not built properly and Hunter has replaced them to include me as well. It was just a few and Hunter has been responsive. I will tell you that some complaints to Hunter on the rudders splitting were because of other problems for example letting drop against concrete from the up position while on the trailer. In this case, there is not warranty issue.
The rudders are made by another vender whom I have known for many years. There were some rudders that were not built properly and Hunter has replaced them to include me as well. It was just a few and Hunter has been responsive. I will tell you that some complaints to Hunter on the rudders splitting were because of other problems for example letting drop against concrete from the up position while on the trailer. In this case, there is not warranty issue.
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alan
OH DAVID...
...the rudders on the 26/260/270 are dogs! There is nothing that can be said about them except comming up with fixes. For me, it's a shear pin (papermate pen). The two people I personally know/knew with a 260/270 had problems with the actual rudder also. Both also have/had issues with keeping it from kicking up when it shouldn't. alan
...the rudders on the 26/260/270 are dogs! There is nothing that can be said about them except comming up with fixes. For me, it's a shear pin (papermate pen). The two people I personally know/knew with a 260/270 had problems with the actual rudder also. Both also have/had issues with keeping it from kicking up when it shouldn't. alan
C
crazy dave
Oh Alan
I basically have sold too many of the 23.5, 19, 26, 240, 260 & 270 sailboats. Yes once in a while we will see the problem but not what you are trying to emphasize. The nice thing about Hunter is they have always come up to the plate if a problem exists. For the record, I am the culprit who went to Hunter Marine and suggested the water ballast boats and in fact introduced every one of them. I guess I do not know anything about these boats.
I basically have sold too many of the 23.5, 19, 26, 240, 260 & 270 sailboats. Yes once in a while we will see the problem but not what you are trying to emphasize. The nice thing about Hunter is they have always come up to the plate if a problem exists. For the record, I am the culprit who went to Hunter Marine and suggested the water ballast boats and in fact introduced every one of them. I guess I do not know anything about these boats.
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Mtoran
Response to Dave
Dave, Appreciate your involvement with Hunter, however I don't trailer my boat. The second replacement rudder cracked in the same spot within two months of being replaced. Hunter has been very responsive to my inquires this time, however the first time the rudder broke while under sail - I was less than impressed with their service. It was only after pointing out the applicable state lemon laws and potential products liability exposure did they get in touch with me and give me a proper explanation. The point being that the problem was not consistent on every rudder - you could have had great experience with the rudders you sold - while others could have had problems.
Dave, Appreciate your involvement with Hunter, however I don't trailer my boat. The second replacement rudder cracked in the same spot within two months of being replaced. Hunter has been very responsive to my inquires this time, however the first time the rudder broke while under sail - I was less than impressed with their service. It was only after pointing out the applicable state lemon laws and potential products liability exposure did they get in touch with me and give me a proper explanation. The point being that the problem was not consistent on every rudder - you could have had great experience with the rudders you sold - while others could have had problems.
A
alan
Oh David (part II).
I never said the boats were bad or that you don't know them, HOWEVER, the rudders are DOGS. The 26 that I have, as I have said before, is a blast. A long time ago one of my science teachers told us that if we wanted to critisize a theory or a device we should come up with an alternate or fix. So, I will say that my 26 rudder works well with a shear pin although the entire system flexes too much. In addition, the solid rudder stock sold on this site seems to work for all that have purchased it and should be resistant to dropping. With several people here singing songs praising the boat but cursing the rudder....As always, your participation here, sharing your knowledge with us, is appreciated. alan
I never said the boats were bad or that you don't know them, HOWEVER, the rudders are DOGS. The 26 that I have, as I have said before, is a blast. A long time ago one of my science teachers told us that if we wanted to critisize a theory or a device we should come up with an alternate or fix. So, I will say that my 26 rudder works well with a shear pin although the entire system flexes too much. In addition, the solid rudder stock sold on this site seems to work for all that have purchased it and should be resistant to dropping. With several people here singing songs praising the boat but cursing the rudder....As always, your participation here, sharing your knowledge with us, is appreciated. alan
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crazy dave
Response to MToran
As I understand, there are no state lemon laws in Georgia nor any other state. I would love to see the statuate that specifically includes boats. I wish to state for the record that Hunter Marine does not bend to any threatening overtures as it would appear to be the case here. I have known Hunter Marine for 25 years and they have either spoken to you or contacted you in some way to take care of you which is the right thing to do. They and Beneteau have the best warranty departments and they bend over backwards better than many manufacturers to help their customers. Basically, idle threats do not cut the mustard here as they are trying to help you. There is also another expression. You can catch flys better with honey than fly paper. Be careful what you say. I would love to hear how Hunter helped you but I am not going there as I know the fellows to well. For the record, your rudder is made by another vender and I too had one recently that failed and they took care of it. Hunter has been in discussion with that vender.
As I understand, there are no state lemon laws in Georgia nor any other state. I would love to see the statuate that specifically includes boats. I wish to state for the record that Hunter Marine does not bend to any threatening overtures as it would appear to be the case here. I have known Hunter Marine for 25 years and they have either spoken to you or contacted you in some way to take care of you which is the right thing to do. They and Beneteau have the best warranty departments and they bend over backwards better than many manufacturers to help their customers. Basically, idle threats do not cut the mustard here as they are trying to help you. There is also another expression. You can catch flys better with honey than fly paper. Be careful what you say. I would love to hear how Hunter helped you but I am not going there as I know the fellows to well. For the record, your rudder is made by another vender and I too had one recently that failed and they took care of it. Hunter has been in discussion with that vender.
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crazy dave
Alan
Thank you for your response. Yes there were a bunch of bad rudders that were made and once in a while I will have one too. I can assure you that Hunter is on the problem as it costs them alot of money. Since my response to Mr. Toran, I do know the situation and Hunter treated Mr. Toran with courtesy plus trying to help. I can understand from the facts about the two rudders. Most of the rudders are fine and call al fooks at hunter and get my email address as I would like to talk with you.
Thank you for your response. Yes there were a bunch of bad rudders that were made and once in a while I will have one too. I can assure you that Hunter is on the problem as it costs them alot of money. Since my response to Mr. Toran, I do know the situation and Hunter treated Mr. Toran with courtesy plus trying to help. I can understand from the facts about the two rudders. Most of the rudders are fine and call al fooks at hunter and get my email address as I would like to talk with you.
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Mtoran
Dave
Dave, There are cases which have upheld that property can be considered impaired if the owner loses confidence in the product due to defect. And yes this had applied specifically to a powerboat manufacturer. I will not bore you with the details. I am new to the Hunter family and were happy that they handled the rudder situation the second time around with the attention that you have described. I look forward to a long relationship with Hunter if they maintain that level of service. My issue came with the first rudder as I had to pay towing expenses back to the dock for an obvious rudder manufacturer problem. It would have been nice if Hunter had explained their ongoing rudder issue with me the first time. Keep in mind this was only in February of this year. I received a short e-mail that said we don't reimburse for towing and this had been referred to the appropriate department for further review. No follow-up after that from Hunter. I don't care why the responded to the second e-mail as long as they have. Paying monthly payments on a boat that you cannot sail will eventually produce more than an idle threat. I was also trying to point out to Hunter that they could have a real legal issue if someone got hurt. When my rudder failed it did not break off the boat immediately - it bent at a 90 degree angle half way down the rudder and froze there. It made for an interesting ride and all three of my crew (fit men that know how to sail) were banged up on various parts of the boat. I look forward to Hunter proving you right in the future and appreciate your responses to this posting.
Dave, There are cases which have upheld that property can be considered impaired if the owner loses confidence in the product due to defect. And yes this had applied specifically to a powerboat manufacturer. I will not bore you with the details. I am new to the Hunter family and were happy that they handled the rudder situation the second time around with the attention that you have described. I look forward to a long relationship with Hunter if they maintain that level of service. My issue came with the first rudder as I had to pay towing expenses back to the dock for an obvious rudder manufacturer problem. It would have been nice if Hunter had explained their ongoing rudder issue with me the first time. Keep in mind this was only in February of this year. I received a short e-mail that said we don't reimburse for towing and this had been referred to the appropriate department for further review. No follow-up after that from Hunter. I don't care why the responded to the second e-mail as long as they have. Paying monthly payments on a boat that you cannot sail will eventually produce more than an idle threat. I was also trying to point out to Hunter that they could have a real legal issue if someone got hurt. When my rudder failed it did not break off the boat immediately - it bent at a 90 degree angle half way down the rudder and froze there. It made for an interesting ride and all three of my crew (fit men that know how to sail) were banged up on various parts of the boat. I look forward to Hunter proving you right in the future and appreciate your responses to this posting.
B
Brian
For what it's worth
I have had my H26 for 2 years now and haven't had any problems with the rudder. The swing keel and kick up rudder were must have items because getting to the dock in front of my house requires traversing a 3 foot deep canal connecting our lake to the main lake. The only time I have had the rudder kick up is if it has struck bottom (mud or sand) or run through very dense seaweed. I have had other boats with kickup rudders before and my experience with them was about the same. When the boat is moving fast it can take some force to lower the rudder back down after exiting the canal. When the boat is stopped a light pull on the rope does it. The only problem I have had with the rudder on the Hunter was due to my own stupidity. I'm embarrassed to admit it but I forgot to raise it once while pulling the boat out of the water. My wife then signalled me to back up. The rudder caught the ground and pivoted sideways splintering the bottom few inches and slightly bending the plates on either side of the rudder. That was far more force sideways force than the water could ever exert and the rudder held up fine as did all of the mounts and hardware. I spent a little quality time refiberglassing the bottom tip of the rudder where it splintered and putting a coat of gelcoat on it before I put it back in the water. It seems to be as good as new. I was impressed that the design could take that much force at that long of a lever arm with such minimal damage. On some other boats I have owned that would have caused complete failure. Of course not everyones experiences have been so positive but Hunter definitely has my vote.
I have had my H26 for 2 years now and haven't had any problems with the rudder. The swing keel and kick up rudder were must have items because getting to the dock in front of my house requires traversing a 3 foot deep canal connecting our lake to the main lake. The only time I have had the rudder kick up is if it has struck bottom (mud or sand) or run through very dense seaweed. I have had other boats with kickup rudders before and my experience with them was about the same. When the boat is moving fast it can take some force to lower the rudder back down after exiting the canal. When the boat is stopped a light pull on the rope does it. The only problem I have had with the rudder on the Hunter was due to my own stupidity. I'm embarrassed to admit it but I forgot to raise it once while pulling the boat out of the water. My wife then signalled me to back up. The rudder caught the ground and pivoted sideways splintering the bottom few inches and slightly bending the plates on either side of the rudder. That was far more force sideways force than the water could ever exert and the rudder held up fine as did all of the mounts and hardware. I spent a little quality time refiberglassing the bottom tip of the rudder where it splintered and putting a coat of gelcoat on it before I put it back in the water. It seems to be as good as new. I was impressed that the design could take that much force at that long of a lever arm with such minimal damage. On some other boats I have owned that would have caused complete failure. Of course not everyones experiences have been so positive but Hunter definitely has my vote.
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crazy dave
What to do if certain things occour.
I called Hunter to inquire what went on after I sent the email to you. There is a difference of opinion how things were handled. Apparently, you got two rudders from the same batch which is very unfortunate. I know that no one wants that to happen. I got one of them too. You mention legal process. That does not impress me at all and is a sad state of affairs when you even brought it up. After this response, I will not respond to you any further in any mannner shape or form. I know Hunter trys very hard and alot times they catch hell for no reason. I know those guys for example yesterday were in at 6:30 am and did not leave until 7:00 pm trying to help. You should be advised you will catch more flys with honey than with fly paper. However, when a mishap occours, you do need to think what to do. It is just like driving a car and what do you do when there is a blow out. First, I would question the need to tow as you can steer with the motor too in the event of rudder failure. Secondly, the boat will come right it self and loosening the sheet lines quickly would help. I think with time you will learn alot and unfortunately you had a bad experience but hopefully a learning experience. You may have to emprovise sometimes. I did this alot when I first started sailing. I hope everything goes well and I will not respond any further and I will ask others to let this go.
I called Hunter to inquire what went on after I sent the email to you. There is a difference of opinion how things were handled. Apparently, you got two rudders from the same batch which is very unfortunate. I know that no one wants that to happen. I got one of them too. You mention legal process. That does not impress me at all and is a sad state of affairs when you even brought it up. After this response, I will not respond to you any further in any mannner shape or form. I know Hunter trys very hard and alot times they catch hell for no reason. I know those guys for example yesterday were in at 6:30 am and did not leave until 7:00 pm trying to help. You should be advised you will catch more flys with honey than with fly paper. However, when a mishap occours, you do need to think what to do. It is just like driving a car and what do you do when there is a blow out. First, I would question the need to tow as you can steer with the motor too in the event of rudder failure. Secondly, the boat will come right it self and loosening the sheet lines quickly would help. I think with time you will learn alot and unfortunately you had a bad experience but hopefully a learning experience. You may have to emprovise sometimes. I did this alot when I first started sailing. I hope everything goes well and I will not respond any further and I will ask others to let this go.
A
alan
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