Hunter 26.5 race ready needs

Kermit · Apr 3, 2015

Sailorjohnca said:
Ps been following this forum and am impressed with the quality of responses and the amazing input from Crazy Dave.

"Amazing." Great word to describe Uncle Crazy Dave.

Jackdaw · Apr 3, 2015

A 26.5 used to race PHRF at our club. I always thought it looked like a cool boat. This one was the shoal draft version, and was a pig to weather. Keeping it flatter helped but was hard in a breeze. We helped him figure out a way to cross sheet the headsail and things got better. If you're a j24 guy that will be familiar to you. Also look at the traveler and look into changing the ends to make it easier to adjust from the rail.

You'll probably be swapping out a lot of the hardware. A lot of it was not designed to be used in anger.

Make sure everything has backing plates. I was amazed on his boat how much stuff didn't.

John A12737 · Apr 11, 2015

I agree that replacing the traveler ends would help. I'd like a set up like the 28.5. You might also add a Cunningham. I've changed out to an Ida rudder, which was a dramatic change for the better. When I changed rudders, I had to retune the mast. Having a properly tuned mast, is the best improvement you can make - and doesn't cost a dime! New sails also improves performance. Of course having a skipper who can take advantage of all these changes, would help my boat's performance! :0)

Jackdaw · Apr 12, 2015

Sailorjohnca said:
Also shroud tensions for various winds. I've bought a north sails 3di and am hoping for good results from that. The PHRF rating is quite fast for a Hunter not sure how well I will do this year.

This is typical small frac boat stuff;I suggest 3 bands:

0-6 knots
6-12 knots
12+ knots

You'll have to figure out the actual tensions. You'll want a almost straight mast and a ton of forestay sag for 0-6. 12+ will be lots of pre-bend and stiff forestay to remove sag and de-power. 6-12 will be right in the middle.

We use three sets of spider cord of different colors to tie the turnbuckle bodies together; one for each wind band. That way we know where we left the rig set. Just figure out how many turns +/- from one to the other bands on both shrouds. That was no need to get out the Loos each time. If the boat was left in MED and the breeze is HIGH, you know it s +X turn on the lowers and +Y turns on the uppers to get to HIGH. Then tie them with the HIGH color.

Jackdaw · Apr 13, 2015

Sailorjohnca said:
Interesting, on the J I always set the tension every race, it was easy as there is lots of info for that class. Like the idea of coloured thread, similar to calibrated turnbuckles but way cheaper?

Same idea.. that you can look at them an know where the current setting is. Then +/- a known number of turns to the other settings.

Then tie off with the new color.

kbnj1 · Jul 27, 2015

Just noticed this thread, so sorry if I'm late to the conversation. How's it sailing?
I've raced a 26.5 for about 5 years now with quite a bit of success - it easily sails past it's rating (204 for me). And it POINTS. If it's not pointing, something is seriously wrong with the rigging or foils (my first guess would be loose shrouds - they need to be TIGHT as with any fractional rig). I've sailed against J22's, J24's and a J29 and yeah, they're faster, but they really don't point that much higher if at all. The keel may be mistaken for a 'shoal draft' keel, but Hunter out-did themselves on that design and it's pretty much the best of both worlds - shallow draft and great pointing ability.
First, rig a backstay adjuster; cheapest thing you can do to improve performance. In moderate wind play it to keep the boat upright before dumping the main. Second, do something with the main system - not a ball bearing to be found on the original traveler or main sheet system. Make sure you rig the new systems to be adjustable from the rail, though, because the boat LOVES weight forward. Anything you can do to get the crew out of the (small) cockpit and forward will make you go faster and keep them from tripping over each other. Obviously, the bottom is extremely important, but you know that if you sailed a J24. The stock rudder IMHO was a great design but crap execution. I got a ton of tiny blisters, so reformed it and discovered it was completely asymmetrical. Fix it or replace it. My main is fully battened, so no cunningham. Rigged a good outhaul. Came with only an old 155% that still works great, but creates a ton of weather helm in puffs, so seriously considering getting a 135%, then may look at shortening the forestay. Added a spinnaker. Boat was designed for it, but be careful with (all) the sheaves in the mast; they're cheap and I had to replace them. I burned the spin halyard sheave down to the axle. Hope that helps.

kbnj1 · Jul 27, 2015

I just put on a new traveller (mostly Garhauer, but I added Ronstan auto-ratchets), and have cam cleats high on the cockpit side wall forward, almost against the bulkhead so a crew can tack it, including releasing the low side if forgotten, from the high side outside the cockpit (continuous line). That gets one person out of the cockpit except to tail the jib sheet if necessary. It's also set up so I can tack it from the helm if I install another set of cam cleats aft (options are good). Another option would be a windward sheeting traveler, but I hear they're a little fragile and expensive. One issue I had before I changed it was if I tried to tack it from the helm, one of the crews' knee, foot, or butt was inevitably in the way! (again, small cockpit). I have a 6:1 main, so I agree 4:1 would be pretty rough. I just re-rigged it with a Ronstan triple auto-ratchet (LOVE those!) base and Garhauer double with becket on the boom. Works great! Forgot about chopping the tiller and adding an extension, but that was definitely a requirement. I default to about 6-8" off the spreader for the genny, so I would imagine 10" would limit your pointing/pinching ability. Right now the tracks I have only go from around the forward mount of the rear pulpit rail to just forward of the winches. They're fine for the one genny I have, but if I get the 135 or smaller I know I'll have to replace them with much longer tracks. One annoying issue is if I put the jib lead cars too far aft to twist the sail a bit the winch handle hits the sheet and slows the last part of the tack way down.

kbnj1 · Jul 28, 2015

RE furling, in theory your PHRF rating accounts for the performance loss. I get 6 sec/mile for my above-deck Furlex; part for the above-deck mount and part for the (required for the rating) UV 'taffeta' (canvas) on the leach. Reality, of course, is a whole different story, and depends on crew performance, conditions you typically sail in, etc., etc., etc. I chose to keep it in small part because of the obvious convenience when short or single-handed cruising (which I don't do much of), but more because I haven't been convinced it's much of a performance loss, if any, regardless of what some pretty good sailors have told me. There's an excellent chance I'm wrong, but my rationalization goes like this:
- The entry (luff) of the sail is more important to keep 'clean' than the exit (leach). The nicely-shaped, rotating foil of the Furlex would seem to be far more clean than a round wire, a bunch of hanks and an air gap.
- It's QUICK and easy to furl/unfurl the genny after (or before) spinnaker sets and takedowns. I see that as a huge performance gain, but with very experienced and motivated crew, maybe not so much.
- A 155% is a lot of sail cloth on the deck. Don't know if it could find it's way into the water, but it's something to think about.
- On the negative side, there's definitely a performance loss due to not being able to raise a furling headsail quite as far up. But I'm very often over-powered, so I think that loss only applies in light air, and it's probably only 6-8".
- The Furlex has 2 slots and a removable drum for racing so you can do peels if conditions change. Not sure if your Harken has that or if you'd ever use it, but it might be something to consider.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on that because I need new sails soon and need to decide whether or not to get them with the UV protection or not.

Speaking of sails, how do you like your 3di? Did North actually come out an measure (and sail?) your boat? The 26.5's not that common a boat and I'm worried I'm going to spend a ton of money on sails and not be happy with their shape.

Jackdaw · Jul 29, 2015

kbnj1 said:
RE furling, in theory your PHRF rating accounts for the performance loss. I get 6 sec/mile for my above-deck Furlex; part for the above-deck mount and part for the (required for the rating) UV 'taffeta' (canvas) on the leach. Reality, of course, is a whole different story, and depends on crew performance, conditions you typically sail in, etc., etc., etc. I chose to keep it in small part because of the obvious convenience when short or single-handed cruising (which I don't do much of), but more because I haven't been convinced it's much of a performance loss, if any, regardless of what some pretty good sailors have told me. There's an excellent chance I'm wrong, but my rationalization goes like this:
- The entry (luff) of the sail is more important to keep 'clean' than the exit (leach). The nicely-shaped, rotating foil of the Furlex would seem to be far more clean than a round wire, a bunch of hanks and an air gap.
- It's QUICK and easy to furl/unfurl the genny after (or before) spinnaker sets and takedowns. I see that as a huge performance gain, but with very experienced and motivated crew, maybe not so much.
- A 155% is a lot of sail cloth on the deck. Don't know if it could find it's way into the water, but it's something to think about.
- On the negative side, there's definitely a performance loss due to not being able to raise a furling headsail quite as far up. But I'm very often over-powered, so I think that loss only applies in light air, and it's probably only 6-8".
- The Furlex has 2 slots and a removable drum for racing so you can do peels if conditions change. Not sure if your Harken has that or if you'd ever use it, but it might be something to consider.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on that because I need new sails soon and need to decide whether or not to get them with the UV protection or not.

Speaking of sails, how do you like your 3di? Did North actually come out an measure (and sail?) your boat? The 26.5's not that common a boat and I'm worried I'm going to spend a ton of money on sails and not be happy with their shape.

There is always some performance hit for roller furling. Depending on your PHRF rules, you MAY get credit for it.

If the roller furling came standard with the boat, usually NO credit is given, because it is already baked into the rating.

An above deck drum effects performance two ways. It 1) reduces the amount of possible sail area, and 2) removes the 'plate effect' of a sail sweeping the deck. This increases the amount of induced drag.

A rigid extrusion is slower than a wire luff or supple tuff-luff because it effects the ability of the headstay to sag. It's also larger, creating more disturbed air.

A VERY generous PHRF board will give extra credit for UV cloth on laminate sails. Normally they don't give extra for it on woven (dacron) as they have usually given credit for the cloth.

All of these things matter more in light air then heavy. Once you are fully powered up, it matters not at all.

Oh, its rather rare for boats to do a headsail peal unless it is a long distance race. Most boats don't have two jib halyards. Much more common to swap it out on a downwind when the spin is up.

Jackdaw · Jul 29, 2015

Sailorjohnca said:
As to the 3di, I was tired of my Mylar sails going soft in a few years on the J and so paid extra for the new technology. They used these sails on the Volvo ocean race and they held up way better than any other sail. The material looks like a black tarp, but seems to have a nice shape. North sails did get the measurements wrong though and I had to have it recut to reduce the luff length.
As I said before my furling drum is below deck , as far as I can see this is a factory option, does your 26.5 have this, it allows for a deck sweeper genny.

You have North 3Di sails on your 26.5?? Pictures please! ;^)

Jackdaw · Jul 29, 2015

Sailorjohnca said:
just got the 3Di for the genny , stayed with a simple dacron for the main
don't have any long distance photos, attached a few close ups and also the buried furler drum that seems to be pretty unusual but allows for the tack to be close to the deck.

Mad science! That's insanely cool.

kbnj1 · Aug 3, 2015

<br> Wow, now I see why your track is so far forward - MUCH lower clue (and presumably much faster). When you're a little off the wind (close- and beam- reach), does the lifeline interfere significantly with sail shape? How 'stretchy' is 3di? Can you tighten the halyard and move the draft forward, or is the shape the shape? It's obvious there was no wind when you took the pics, but I do notice the foot is pretty much tight against the shrouds. It would seem to me moving the car aft might just tighten the foot and not bring the sail closer to the spreader; so moving the car forward might give better pointing ability? Interestingly, had the same issue on a J80 I had the pleasure of sailing on this weekend. The attached pics are a few years old now, but the headsail configuration is the same (and the genny is still just as blown out!). Note the weight forward, bow down in the front view. Probably dumb luck back then, but we were first and well ahead. The boat definitely likes weight forward.
Let me know if you want any pics of my spinnaker or main sheet systems. Had the mast down to do some rebuilding over the winter and have pics of the sheave box and mast base if you don't have already.

Hunter 26.5 race ready needs

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