Hunter 216 ACP Hull maintenance

[Hunter216]

I’m looking for advice on this topic as the outer skin of Lucan - ACP hull material is not fibreglass and may not do well if subjected to “normal” tried and true fibreglass/gelcoat processes.
The link below will take you to the 216 download area where the user manual and a separate ACP cleaning description is posted.

https://hunter.sailboatowners.com/dl/downloads.php?task=model&mid=68&model=216

I would appreciate any specific ACP advice on the following issues:

I would like to remove some existing lettering on the hull and remove any glue etc. The area might also have some shadow from where the letters were attached so how to restore that spot to a consistent finish.

I would like to clean the hull throughly and then wax the outer hull to make future cleanups easier.
Thanks

 

[Hunter216]

I found this PDF on the BASF website for reference, most relevant part chemical resistance:

"At room temperature, Luran S is stable to saturated hydrocarbons, low-aromatic fuels and mineral oils, vegetable and animal fats and oils, water, aqueous salt solutions and dilute acids. Although most Luran S grades are also stable to alkalis, the polycarbonate content of the Luran S (ASA+PC) grades makes them susceptible to damage by alkalis, ammonia and amines. Concentrated acids, aromatic hydrocarbons and chlorinated hydrocarbons, esters, ethers and ketones attack Luran S."

I'm not much of a chemist (maybe someone can offer opinions) but stuff like acetone that might loosen up the lettering will likely EAT the "ABS like" Luran S, so that's out. Don't really know what BASF means by "stable to..."

Like always any help appreciated.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

I advised Hunter to speak in layman's terms which I do. Absolutely never use acetone, resin/hardner and possibly anything like Goo Gone. Ask the question what would you use on plastic and that is basically what you are dealing with.

 

[Hunter216]

Thanks Dave

I guess my problem is the only “safe” things like soap and water, a little alcohol etc that I would use to clean glossy plastic won’t have any impact on the lettering I want to get off. I could try mechanical methods such as a little bit of heat from a heat gun and plastic scrapers to get the letters off, maybe scuffing the surface in the process and I would likely still end up with some of the glue on the surface leaving a shadow of the lettering, so very reluctant to start without a solid end to end solution. Maybe there is a BASF chem expert out there that is also a sailor that will chime in :>!

 

[BobbyFunn]

ACETONE WILL DESTROY ACP HULLS. JUST THE VAPOR COULD RUIN THE SHELL.

Google acetone polishing. In the world of 3d printing asa and abs plastics are used to build shapes. The final product still looks rough.

After the shape is finished printing they put it in an enclosed container and pour acetone inside. The acetone vapor is absorbed into the plastic and the plastic disolves from a pile of plastic threads into a solid. In the process the outer surface goes from rough to a glass like polish.

After making repairs to acp hulls, there is almost no way other than acetone polishing to return the acp to the fresh out of the mold shine with already being an auto body specialist with all the good tools and polishing compounds.

Ive used paint thinner to remove the hunter logo and waterline strip glue. Ive also used rubbing alcohol to prep before painting ad applying the replacement stickers.

Ive polished the top to a pretty good shine with bar keepers friend, ceramic oven top cleaner and mequires compound. All good products.

Lighter fliud is the same as paint thinner, so that works too.

Remember...asa is used on cars. It has to handle gasoline.

 

[Hunter216]

BobbyFunn
I’m happy to hear you managed to remove the Hunter logo with paint thinner and the user manual does state you can use “mineral spirits” which I believe is the same thing that you refer as paint thinner.

The letters I’m trying to get off are slightly thicker than the Hunter logo but I’m pretty sure they are normal vinyl boat lettering material so I wonder if your logo removal process would be as effective and safe?

Obviously you have a lot of experience in this area so a little step by step would really help me understand how you got the logo and any underlying glue off without damaging the hull material.

 

[BobbyFunn]

The big hull faring job was done during the summer when it was about 95 degrees in the garage. The stickers came up with a plastic scraper. There was residue that i used paint thinner on. I probably could have used a hair dryer to get it even hotter but for the most part the stickers came right off.

 

[chuckwayne]

mineral spirits is safe - but don't leave it on for long periods. alcohol is also safe. You might try carefully using a decal remover - a round rubber disk you put in a drill.

 

[JimInPB]

"paint thinner" is a pretty generic term that can be used to describe a wide variety of different chemicals. Mineral spirits is one flavor of paint thinner. Some of the other varieties, like lacquer thinner, will likely destroy the Luran quickly.

I've been using alcohol to clean my Luran hulls pretty regularly. I use soft scrub with bleach sometimes for tougher marks & stains. I recently used WD-40 to get off some baked-on adhesive residue from duct tape that was left on the deck for a few weeks while the boat sat on the hook here in sunny Florida.

There are a few different families of adhesives that are used to attach pressure sensitive graphics. Some of the adhesives are solvent base. Some are hot melt. Some are natural rubber base. Some are acrylic base. Different adhesives will respond to different removal methods. I would start by trying to warm things up a bit with a blow dryer & see if a plastic scraper will then remove the decals. If that doesn't work, I would then try spraying a little WD-40 on the edges & give it a few minutes to sit. If the adhesive softens, I would continue with that line of attack.

Please let us know how you make out.

 

[Hunter216]

Thanks for all of the experienced input, to summarize:
1) Gently remove the sticker material mechanically if possible in a warm environment (either high ambient temp and or GENTLE warming with a heat source)
2) To remove the “residual glue substance” try in ascending order of risk, rubbing alcohol, mineral spirits, WD40.

To clean the outer hull before wax
1) Soap and water with soft non-abrasive cloth
2) Wipe down with alcohol to get any little stuck on bits
3) If alcohol doesn’t remove bits SPARINGLY use minerals spirits, WD40 or the products BobbyFunn mentioned above.
4) Have soap and water at hand to immediately wash these products off so they don’t linger on the hull.

 

[BobbyFunn]

To clean the outer hull before wax
1) Soap and water with soft non-abrasive cloth
2) Wipe down with alcohol to get any little stuck on bits
3) If alcohol doesn’t remove bits SPARINGLY use minerals spirits, WD40 or the products BobbyFunn mentioned above.
4) Have soap and water at hand to immediately wash these products off so they don’t linger on the hull.

Id swap 3 and 4.

Alcohol will dissolve many oils and doesnt leave a trace. If i use a petrol product such as gasoline, mineral spirits or lighter fluid to get rid of road tar/grime or decals, the next step is degreaser and then alcohol. Id only use alcohol if it was part of surface prep.

 

[Parsons]

Sounds like you have the right approach. For removing vinyl lettering and stripes, I have often found that the adhesive is very sensitive to heat. I removed old lettering from my H216 on a warm day (few and far between now!) without a problem. For some tough spots, I heated with a common hair dryer to soften the vinyl and adhesive, then scraped up. I recommend a plastic putty knife, if you want to keep any of your fingernails!

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Heating the hull I would not advise against unless being careful as well also weakening the bond with the construction foam. If you do get it to start to peel off do it slowly pulling at a near180 degree to the decal.
If you want to send me a message via forum please do so

 

[Hunter216]

BobbyFunn
Not sure if I follow your last post, likely caused by how I wrote out the steps. What would you use for degreaser instead of soap and water?

In the clean before wax part I intended 4) to be a way to neutralize any harm caused by having the more aggressive cleaners on the hull for very long, just get the spot removed then wash it off with soapy water, then rinse with just water. Do you consider the fresh water rinse the last step before wax or would you always use alcohol for this last step?
Do you have a favourite wax product?

Dave I hear you about not overheating the outer Luran layer and possible delamination. Given the time of year I might hold off until a hot day next summer to tackle the letters. Pretty sure I had my last sail of the year today as I wore multi-layers and a toque and still got cold. Time to find my skis and snowboard I think!

 

[BobbyFunn]

BobbyFunn
Not sure if I follow your last post, likely caused by how I wrote out the steps. What would you use for degreaser instead of soap and water?

After most sails i just hose it down to get the salt off. Fresh water sailing i go a few times until a waterline stain forms.

When its time to suds up i treat it like a nice car. I use automotive cleaners as my "degreaser" since they are safe on cars but if im out ill use dish soap without giving it a second thought. If after cleaning i see road filth from towing ill use mineral spirits to finish it off, then wash the area again. Top side i will use bar keepers friend or soft scub with bleach to get rid of shoe scuff marks.

I only use alcohol if i have to apply new decals or prep for paint. I painted the bottom with rustoleum plastic primer and then rustleum topsides so i dont care as much about waxing or perfection for that matter. Its shiny and smooth and the plastic is covered .

If you clean while on water you should use an environmentally safe product which should be no problem to find. No ammonia or acetone.

 

[Hunter216]

BobbyFunn

My purpose for waxing is purely ease of cleanup. The water where I moor and sail - Lake Ontario leaves “tea stains” on the hull if they sit for long, almost impossible to get off gelcoat without using oxalic acid hull cleaner. I found on my powerboat etc that if I have a good coat of wax on the surface that kind of cleanup goes a lot easier. Unfortunately I’m finding the Luran S outer coating to be tricky to deal with. At least I can just haul it out and wash it several times a season so may not have much staining anyway.

I was looking for some touch up paint as a have a minor ding that I intend to repair with the Hunter store plexus I bought. I can’t find any Krylon paint (the ones mentioned in the 216 ACP Repair PDF) locally so I was thinking of using the Rustoleum brand until I looked up its data sheet and found it’s solvents at least contained stuff that BASF says is harmful to Luran S???

"At room temperature, Luran S is stable to saturated hydrocarbons, low-aromatic fuels and mineral oils, vegetable and animal fats and oils, water, aqueous salt solutions and dilute acids. Although most Luran S grades are also stable to alkalis, the polycarbonate content of the Luran S (ASA+PC) grades makes them susceptible to damage by alkalis, ammonia and amines. Concentrated acids, aromatic hydrocarbons and chlorinated hydrocarbons, esters, ethers and ketones attack Luran S."

I’m not trying to question you as you know what your doing, just find myself confused (the old analysis paralysis syndrome I’m susceptible to :> ) about what is deemed safe to use. See Rustoleum spec sheet below:

 

[BobbyFunn]

First off...I barely know what im doing.

That Rustoleum Plastic Primer has to bond with the plastic. I knew it would stick based on that safety sheet. It does. Its been three years since I did that and it looks great.

The hull had terrible dock rash and had obvoiusly been left beached. Loading and unloading is brutal near the front bunk. Its getting close to paint touchup time near the front.

I rolled it on. Once painted with normal topside paint it can be painted with topside forever without the primer. I would do it again, but next time im flipping the boat. I would NOT use paint on topside unless there was a tragedy. That gloss is gorgeous.

I repaired the rudder post using the suggested glue with a krylon plastic paint. I couldnt get it to look anywhere near as good as topside sanded and polished. I immediatly rejected the idea of buying 12 cans of krylon for bottom painting.

Any plastic spraypaint might work. I

 

[Hunter216]

Looks like the censors cut you off mid sentence.
For “barely know” what your doing you seem to be faking it pretty well!!

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

For hull cleaning and coating, I found if you use a cleaner wax like the 3M Cleaner wax, that did the job with two coatings of Melquires pure wax worked well. If you use a buffer, slow speed going back and forth worked but being mindful not to hold the buffer long in any place.

Krylon plastic paint is the best to use. If repairing do lightly wet sand for best adhesion. The folks here will tell you which white to use.

If leaving in the water for any length of time, suggest anti fouling paint. MOST ANTI FOULING PAINTS WILL ATTACK AND DESTROY ACP OR PLASTIC. THERE ARE TWO THAT WORKS WITH ACP AND PLASTIC. FORGOT WHICH BUT POST THE QUESTION TO SEE WHAT WORKS.

AS FOR A DEGREASER, I used Dawn’s dish detergent which works well on plastics. It is used to clean birds caught in oil spills very well

As for graphics and charts all I can say bunk as I speak in layman’s terms. Usually the best advice came from the tried and true seadogs which I am passing on here learned from them and experienced

As for the fellow who started krylon, where did he go to college.

 

[Hunter216]

MOST ANTI FOULING PAINTS WILL ATTACK AND DESTROY ACP OR PLASTIC. THERE ARE TWO THAT WORKS WITH ACP AND PLASTIC. FORGOT WHICH BUT POST THE QUESTION TO SEE WHAT WORKS.

Dave thank you for the hands on product experience with wash and wax products. This is why I posted the topic; eliminate all the trial and error and just go with what has worked previously.

The 216 I own has from the original owner a coat of what I’m guessing is VC17 on the bottom. The guy I bought from had the boat for quite a few years, didn’t know what the coating was and hadn’t done anything to revisit or touch up the coating.

Hopefully VC17 doesn’t hurt Luran S