Hunter 170 jib partial unfurling not working for me. Pointers?

[stickinthemud57]

Having gotten the knack of furling the jib (run downwind with jib in the shadow of the main), I am now trying to partially unfurl the jib for use in higher wind situations. I thought I had it right today on a port tack with just a few feet of the jib unfurled, sailing well, but when I went over to a starboard tack, the top 3/4ths of the jib unfurled while the bottom 1/4 remained wrapped tight. Needless to say, the jib did not like that arrangement and flapped in protest until I turned downwind and furled it.

I have seen other vessels sailing with a partially unfurled jib (the equivalent of a reefed main), but every time I try it, the top 2/3rds to 3/4 unfurls completely while the bottom section remains furled.

Am I doing something wrong? Should I just look for a 50% jib?

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[sail sfbay]

Is your jib sail original or replaced with a larger one and if so, what size or area? Might have to have a sailmaker kook at the jib design as a properly designed jib can be easily reefed evenly top to bottom with a roller furler (we reef ours all the time).

 

[DrJudyB]

The furler that was fitted to your boat at the factory is design for use with a jib that has a wire sewn into the luff of the jib. A reefing furler must have a rigid foil as part of the design. Your furler lacks a rigid foil. You can’t use A furler with a wire luff to reef the headsail. To reef, you need to buy a different furler and a new jib that’s built differently.

The wire attaches to a swivel at the top. And a drum at the bottom. That’s all there is to it. there is no rigid extrusion. Without a rigid extrusion for the luff to attach to, you can’t use it partially rolled up to reef.

Wire luff furlers can’t be reefed, because the wire is not stiff enough torsionally. You have to have the jib all the way out to use it. The rolled up position is for storage and convenience. You can’t use it with the jib partially in rolled. The wire will untwist and be damaged.

Furlers that can be used for a reefed position with a partially rolled up sail have a rigid foil that is installed around the forestay wire.

Down load the manual for your boat for details.

judy B
Semi-retired sailmaker

 

[sail sfbay]

DrJudyB nice clarification!!.............I assume the Hunter 170 jib is either furled or 100% deployed.

 

[Hunter216]

@stickinthemud57

Our 216 has a similar sail configuration to your 170. I’ve not sailed a 170 but I think they are similar enough that I could offer some advice.

When sailing upwind, most of the power comes from the main so when you reach a point where things are feeling overpowered reef the main but leave the jib out. If you are still feeling overpowered completely furl the jib. Just for something to do one day I tried sailing upwind with just the jib - did not work out well

When sailing downwind, again main is supplying most of the power so reef if necessary (do this early!) Jib out if your comfortable but it really doesn’t have much of an impact on boat speed. Furled jib increases forward visibility. If things really get out of control you could drop main completely and sail with just jib but you might be at a point where you want to motor anyway.

 

[stickinthemud57]

Thanks, all for your helpful and informative responses!

Dr. Judy, you have confirmed my suspicions and experience, and what you are saying about needing a rigid foil makes perfect sense. 170 jib is all or nothing.

Hunter 216, your advice squares with my recent experience and the decisions I ended up making. I reefed the main from the get-go, but variable winds were making it difficult to keep the sails trimmed, and the boat sailing and upright. There were times at which I was spilling so much wind out of the main that it was essentially fully luffed and not contributing to the propulsion of the boat. On reflection, it was probably still pulling the mast leeward from simple wind drag, contributing to the problem. With so much weather helm from the jib, and being unsuccessful attempting to use the jib in a reefed configuration, I finally furled it and sailed with only the reefed main.

The boat was controllable this way, but it was frustrating sailing to windward. It felt like I was creeping along, but the wind was gusting up to 20 MPH.

While sailing with the jib unfurled, I gained new insight into just how far this boat will heel without capsizing!

So, now some follow-up questions:

1. How would I go about researching options for a reefing furler for the 170?
2. Is there an option for a 75% or 50% jib for the 170, either with or without roller furling?

Thanks again!

 

[sail sfbay]

........1. How would I go about researching options for a reefing furler for the 170? 2. Is there an option for a 75% or 50% jib for the 170, either with or without roller furling?.......

1. Check with any number of rigid jib roller furler manufacturers including Facnor, Furlex, Harken, Schaefer Marine and Profurl.
2. I would expect and your local sail maker or on-line sailmaker can help you. Refer to post #12 in this thread how this might be done: Furling Jib for a H-212 ????

 

[stickinthemud57]

Thanks!

 

[DrJudyB]

.... snipped....

So, now some follow-up questions:

1. How would I go about researching options for a reefing furler for the 170?
2. Is there an option for a 75% or 50% jib for the 170, either with or without roller furling?

Thanks again!

If you want to get a smaller jib, you can talk to a sail maker about building one with a wire seized to the luff and a wire pendant to compensate for the shorter luff. You'd want to install it on land before launching.

If you want a roller furling set up, your least expensive option is to add a CDI FF1 and get a new jib. But you're talking $425-475 for the furler with shipping, and $200 - 300 for a new jib 100% jib.

I think you should experiment with following @Hunter216 's advice. The Hunter 170 is a fractional rig with a comparatively big mainsail and comparatively small jib. With that kind of rig, you want to depower the mainsail and/or reduce mainsail area first.

To depower the mainsail mainsail a) tension the outhaul to flatten the foot of the mainsail, and b)tension the vang hard, to bend the mast forward and flatten the draft in the middle of the mainsail. (Note: This advice is specific to dinghies. Flattening the mainsail with the vang works only on dinghies with bendable masts. You usually can't bend a mast with a vang on a keel boat mast; usually you use the backstay for that if the mast is flexible enough)

If you are still over powered, the next step is to reduce sail area by reefing the mainsail. The mainsail on a dinghy rigged like the 170 reef can have a deep reef with the headboard above the forestay. The reef shouldn't put the headboard below the forestay - you might invert/bend the mast backwards

Next sail reduction is to strike the jib completely.

If that's not enough power reduction, then you should consider a smaller jib. A sailmaker can advise you.

Regards,
Judy

 

[Hunter216]

So, now some follow-up questions:

1. How would I go about researching options for a reefing furler for the 170?
2. Is there an option for a 75% or 50% jib for the 170, either with or without roller furling?

I don’t know if this will provide much bang for the buck. The jib is useful in a number of ways but having it bigger or smaller isn’t going to influence things much from a flop prevention perspective.

I have another suggestion that stems from my experience. The previous owner of our boat had zero sailing experience when he purchased the boat so he acquired a main from a Hunter 146 and used it until he felt confident to rig the 216 main. I have the sail stored on the boat as my get home sail. If I encounter one of those everything goes wrong days I can rig it and even reef it if necessary and still sail home.

Sailing a 170 in gusting 20+ I think is pushing things so luffIng the main occasionally to stay upright is going to happen. Bearing off a little will increase boat speed improving the ride but your margin of error decreases. Up to you to find your “comfort level”


Reef the main and use the vang to depower the sail, lose the jib, move your weight outboard in line with the centreboard. If that still leaves you on the edge of loosing control you need a smaller main or your probably going swimming

 

[DrJudyB]

@Hunter216
We were typing at the same time.
Great minds think alike

 

[Hunter216]

Hmmm maybe time to start shopping for a bigger boat

 

[Hunter216]

The reef shouldn't pull the headboard below the forestay - you might invert/bend the mast backwards

I didn’t realize this could happen. I’ll need to be careful with my mini-main

Although if I’m in a situation that’s dire enough for me to rig it in the first place I won’t be worried about flogging the sail to get home!

 

[stickinthemud57]

Hmmm maybe time to start shopping for a bigger boat

Way ahead of you there, podnuh! Wife is already talking about what I will get for this boat when I sell it.

Interesting that Hunter and DrJ mentioned tensioning the vang. I did not mention it originally, but I did exactly that. I usually keep the outhaul pretty tight anyway.

Dr. J, perhaps you did not see my response, but Hunter's advice basically described the process I went through during my sail. Reef the main (started that way), depower the main (did that to the point that the sail was fully luffing). If those don't work, furl the jib and sail under main alone (which is where I ended up).

Although I have to accept that small boats have their limitations, I would like to think that there is a way to enjoy sailing my 170 in at least a fresh breeze. Perhaps that is wishful thinking, but I aim to explore the possibilities.

I also have to remind myself that lake sailing in Texas in the summer means gusty and variable winds. There are some things you just can't change...

REALLY appreciate the advice here. So much to re-learn!

 

[sail sfbay]

Way ahead of you there, podnuh! Wife is already talking about what I will get for this boat when I sell it...................

Please post a new thread when you sell your Hunter 170 and what sailboat you purchase next. I started with a Hobie 16, then moved to a Hunter 31, then Hunter 386 and now Hunter 46.

 

[Hunter216]

Good on you to get out and experiment what the boat will and will not do in “less
than ideal” conditions. Thats sailing imho!

If you are comfortable flopping your 170 find a safe spot and push it to the point where it goes over. Do that a bunch of times and you will then know where the limit is.

Part of what you are gaining by doing so is finding out where the comfort levels are for both of you. I see lots of very capable sailboats motoring when the wind pipes up. Nothing wrong with that as some people get really uncomfortable when the boat starts to creak and groan a bit.

You can push a any size boat to its limits if you try.

 

[stickinthemud57]

Please post a new thread when you sell your Hunter 170 and what sailboat you purchase next. I started with a Hobie 16, then moved to a Hunter 31, then Hunter 386 and now Hunter 46.

If I do I will. Already this little boat has won my heart. Not sure how I would feel parting with it, even when I get a bigger boat. I suppose the day will come when I don't want the hassle of rigging and launching, but for now I count it as part of my fitness routine!

 

[Hunter216]

If I do I will. Already this little boat has won my heart. Not sure how I would feel parting with it, even when I get a bigger boat. I suppose the day will come when I don't want the hassle of rigging and launching, but for now I count it as part of my fitness routine!

Here is a little inspiration.

Or if you are really into speed try this one!

And this would be pushing the limits on a 27’ er

 

[BobbyFunn]

A 15-20 mph breeze with crew is absolutly amazing in a 170. Dont give up on it.

The jib is the most powerful sail on that boat., but reef main unless a mill pond if singlehanding.

 

[stickinthemud57]

I hear what you are saying, Bobby. I can tell a big difference in how this boat handles with another person on board to help keep her on an even keel. I just can't always get my wife to come along.

Funny, she has a way of keeping me on an even keel as well.