I am hoping someone can help me with this problem my friend is having. His 1982 Citation (31') was pulled from the water this weekend, and he noticed a 3/16 separation of the keel, from the hull. The separation abruptly stops around 8 inches from the front. He also says the mast stays had been tightened about 2 months previously, which he believes may have been tightened too tight. Could this have something to do with it? If so, should he try to tighten the keel bolts, or have the mast stays loosened up a bit. He also needs to know roughly how many bolts there are to tighten on the keel, if that is the thing to do. Thanks, Rick
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Catalina Smile
Rick, sounds like 'The Catalina Smile' commonly know to surveyors. No way to be sure, have the yard foreman look, or a surveyor for a 'consulting' fee, not much money. This is serious stuff, I lost a yacht on the ocean due to the keel separating, so I would suspect the worst. Tightening up the keel bolts cannot be wrong, may be the ticket. I don not know specifically that the rig tightening did it, but a keel-stepped yacht, over tightened shrouds, it could effect the Keel to hull stubbie or joint. Mayhap someone else knows around this joint, or has had the same problem?
Rick, sounds like 'The Catalina Smile' commonly know to surveyors. No way to be sure, have the yard foreman look, or a surveyor for a 'consulting' fee, not much money. This is serious stuff, I lost a yacht on the ocean due to the keel separating, so I would suspect the worst. Tightening up the keel bolts cannot be wrong, may be the ticket. I don not know specifically that the rig tightening did it, but a keel-stepped yacht, over tightened shrouds, it could effect the Keel to hull stubbie or joint. Mayhap someone else knows around this joint, or has had the same problem?
keel seperation
I totally agree that a GOOD marine surveyor is needed. They will be able to tell you whether or not there is any structural damage or if the bolts have just backed off or stretched. Either way there will be a substantial amount of work needed to be done to repair this problem. Assuming all that has happened is the loosening of the bolts, one will still have to loosen the rest of the bolts to seperate the keel from the hull for cleaning the joint. Next, assuming there is no structural damage, (i.e. rotten or delaminating glass) you'll have to thouroughly clean the two mating surfaces and apply a good grade of sealant. (this is a critical area and one should not become a miser on this repair.) In my humble opion I would suggest the use of 3M 5200. Be fairly liberal with it as this is not only helping to seal out the water it is also a large part of the structural intregerty of the keel hull joint. Next raise the keel into position (or lower the hull) and tighten all of the bolts letting the sealant ooze out of the joint. If you are using 5200, for optimum performance, walk away for 7 days. This way the sealant that has oozed out will be sandable. Next you will have to sand it flush with the boat leaving a little/very little indent and fair out with the rest of the hull. This is a matter of opinion but most of the people I have had contact with and who have done this procedure believe you should put some glass tape and glass this joint also. Naturally you would have to finish off the area using either West System or similar product to waterproof the area. Then, of course, bottom paint. This would be the easy fix. If it has structural problems then seeking out a good yard man, which is usually pretty hard to do, will be needed to assess whether or not throwing money into the fix will be worth it. Hopefully it will be just keelbolt separation and no structural problems. As for having to tighten up the rigging, this did not have anything to do with the separation of the keel from the hull although constant tightening of the rigging should have been an indicator that something more was going on and this could have been a cause of it.
I totally agree that a GOOD marine surveyor is needed. They will be able to tell you whether or not there is any structural damage or if the bolts have just backed off or stretched. Either way there will be a substantial amount of work needed to be done to repair this problem. Assuming all that has happened is the loosening of the bolts, one will still have to loosen the rest of the bolts to seperate the keel from the hull for cleaning the joint. Next, assuming there is no structural damage, (i.e. rotten or delaminating glass) you'll have to thouroughly clean the two mating surfaces and apply a good grade of sealant. (this is a critical area and one should not become a miser on this repair.) In my humble opion I would suggest the use of 3M 5200. Be fairly liberal with it as this is not only helping to seal out the water it is also a large part of the structural intregerty of the keel hull joint. Next raise the keel into position (or lower the hull) and tighten all of the bolts letting the sealant ooze out of the joint. If you are using 5200, for optimum performance, walk away for 7 days. This way the sealant that has oozed out will be sandable. Next you will have to sand it flush with the boat leaving a little/very little indent and fair out with the rest of the hull. This is a matter of opinion but most of the people I have had contact with and who have done this procedure believe you should put some glass tape and glass this joint also. Naturally you would have to finish off the area using either West System or similar product to waterproof the area. Then, of course, bottom paint. This would be the easy fix. If it has structural problems then seeking out a good yard man, which is usually pretty hard to do, will be needed to assess whether or not throwing money into the fix will be worth it. Hopefully it will be just keelbolt separation and no structural problems. As for having to tighten up the rigging, this did not have anything to do with the separation of the keel from the hull although constant tightening of the rigging should have been an indicator that something more was going on and this could have been a cause of it.
SAMS - NAMS
Richard, If he contacts SAMS or NAMS he will get a GOOD surveyor. Bob Ptak is in the SAMS book (Michigan) a serious surveyor. BobPtak@promarinesurveys.com Where you at Rick? 5200 best for permanent bonding, and that is a given, but he may not need to take drastic action, angle of attack, 1) Get a GOOD surveyor to take a look-see. 2) Get an HONEST (a bit harder to find) yard foreman to take a good look while on the hard.
Richard, If he contacts SAMS or NAMS he will get a GOOD surveyor. Bob Ptak is in the SAMS book (Michigan) a serious surveyor. BobPtak@promarinesurveys.com Where you at Rick? 5200 best for permanent bonding, and that is a given, but he may not need to take drastic action, angle of attack, 1) Get a GOOD surveyor to take a look-see. 2) Get an HONEST (a bit harder to find) yard foreman to take a good look while on the hard.
keel seperation
First, I would like to thank the peolpe who responded to my question. I talked with my friend today. He talked with the yard surveyor over the weekend, who said that the separation is not that big of a deal, and that the boat must have been put under some stress sometime during the season. He also said, fill the bildge with water, and if no water comes out of the crack then it isnt a big deal. I know nothing about boats, but to me, if a separation of that size happend in only 1 season, with no good reason for it(as in hard turns) I would have it looked at by a pro, but thats just me. My friend says he is just going to leak test it, then seal the crack, if there is no leaks. Capt Ron, I am located in Ct, with the boat being in RI.
First, I would like to thank the peolpe who responded to my question. I talked with my friend today. He talked with the yard surveyor over the weekend, who said that the separation is not that big of a deal, and that the boat must have been put under some stress sometime during the season. He also said, fill the bildge with water, and if no water comes out of the crack then it isnt a big deal. I know nothing about boats, but to me, if a separation of that size happend in only 1 season, with no good reason for it(as in hard turns) I would have it looked at by a pro, but thats just me. My friend says he is just going to leak test it, then seal the crack, if there is no leaks. Capt Ron, I am located in Ct, with the boat being in RI.
Keel seperation - been there/done that
When I bought my Citation 35.5, it had some space/seperation between the keel and hull. I 1) had bolts checked for corrosion and cleaned 2) backed off bolts and cleaned joint 3) epoxied joint and retorqued bolts as epoxy setup 4) fared keel joint 5) seal coated entire repair area 6) fresh bottom paint good as new (maybe better) Hauled this fall and still looks like new. Bob PS Not a big deal, most have to deal with it sooner or later.
When I bought my Citation 35.5, it had some space/seperation between the keel and hull. I 1) had bolts checked for corrosion and cleaned 2) backed off bolts and cleaned joint 3) epoxied joint and retorqued bolts as epoxy setup 4) fared keel joint 5) seal coated entire repair area 6) fresh bottom paint good as new (maybe better) Hauled this fall and still looks like new. Bob PS Not a big deal, most have to deal with it sooner or later.
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