I'm looking at a 1970 Morgan 35 for sale and it's a very nice boat, but it has a problem that concerns me. On boths sides of the boat, on the hull beneath the chain plates, there are indentations (dents) of a fairly good size. They're probably an inch deep and a foot long and several inches wide. They are very noticable but the fiberglass on the hull is smooth. There are no cracks. You can see these indentations from 15 feet away. Any idea what might have caused them and how serious they are? Thanks for any info.
Hull Indentations, Port and Starboard, Below Chain Plates
- Thread starter daisydog7
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Just a wild guess but maybe it sat on jack stands
for too long. I would look inside and find the same places and see what they look like from there. No matter what, the builder didn't put them there. Edit to add; Well defined edges? Loading from Jack stands should extend over a broad area and not have defined edges.
for too long. I would look inside and find the same places and see what they look like from there. No matter what, the builder didn't put them there. Edit to add; Well defined edges? Loading from Jack stands should extend over a broad area and not have defined edges.
Is it a deal killer?
If you are correct, is that a deal killer? Should I avoid a boat with that problem?
If you are correct, is that a deal killer? Should I avoid a boat with that problem?
Deck compression / shroud over tightened
It is from the chain plates pulling the hull in. I agrre, walk away, unless you are willing to do a lot of work.
It is from the chain plates pulling the hull in. I agrre, walk away, unless you are willing to do a lot of work.
Surveyed?
This type of deformation may occur when the rig has been over tightend, or if not right immediately at the chain plates could have been from the Jack stands being improperly located. Seems to me any permanent damage would be acompanied by surface cracking in the gel coat. A Surveyor might be able to find his way down alongside the inside of the hull to the attachment/reinforcement points to check it out if it isn't concealed by the interior liner.
This type of deformation may occur when the rig has been over tightend, or if not right immediately at the chain plates could have been from the Jack stands being improperly located. Seems to me any permanent damage would be acompanied by surface cracking in the gel coat. A Surveyor might be able to find his way down alongside the inside of the hull to the attachment/reinforcement points to check it out if it isn't concealed by the interior liner.
That's interesting..
Jim that's quite interesting about boat stands being called "Poppits". It's funny though that Brownell Boat Stands Inc., the worlds largest manufacturer of "poppits" calls them "boat stands"! They make no mention anywhere on their web site about them being called "poppits"...
It very well could be a regional term... Brownell Boat Stands Inc. http://www.brownellboat.com/index2.htm To the OP! A picture is worth a thousand words! Any possibility of getting us one?
Jim that's quite interesting about boat stands being called "Poppits". It's funny though that Brownell Boat Stands Inc., the worlds largest manufacturer of "poppits" calls them "boat stands"! They make no mention anywhere on their web site about them being called "poppits"...
It very well could be a regional term... Brownell Boat Stands Inc. http://www.brownellboat.com/index2.htm To the OP! A picture is worth a thousand words! Any possibility of getting us one?You can call them boat stands, or you can call them poppits - but you don't call
Here is one link out of thousands that will tell you what they are called. Jack stands are for automobiles etc.- not boats. http://www.tahoemarina.com/StorageRates.html Safety Paul Hartmann, Occupational Safety Consultant If you work in or regularly visit a marina, you should be aware of potential hazards. Always try to be watchful of what is happening around you. When entering any storage building don’t forget to look up. Weight handling equipment may be in use and even a relatively small part such as a nut or bolt when dropped from a significant height can cause a serious injury. Stop at blind intersections and check for traffic before stepping out. One of the most often misused items is the boat stand. A boat stand is a tripod and on top is a pad (usually rectangular in shape) that swivels to match the pitch of a boat’s hull. It is a “shoring system” not designed or intended to be a jack stand, floor jack, or any type of weight handling device. Boat stands are not rated for any weight capacity. They stabilize a boat that is supported by its keel. Most commonly a boat is set on “keel blocks,” then boat stands are placed on each side to ensure the boat stays balanced on the blocking. Boat stands are commonly called “Poppits.” They are excellent tools when used as intended. Misused they can be deadly.
Here is one link out of thousands that will tell you what they are called. Jack stands are for automobiles etc.- not boats. http://www.tahoemarina.com/StorageRates.html Safety Paul Hartmann, Occupational Safety Consultant If you work in or regularly visit a marina, you should be aware of potential hazards. Always try to be watchful of what is happening around you. When entering any storage building don’t forget to look up. Weight handling equipment may be in use and even a relatively small part such as a nut or bolt when dropped from a significant height can cause a serious injury. Stop at blind intersections and check for traffic before stepping out. One of the most often misused items is the boat stand. A boat stand is a tripod and on top is a pad (usually rectangular in shape) that swivels to match the pitch of a boat’s hull. It is a “shoring system” not designed or intended to be a jack stand, floor jack, or any type of weight handling device. Boat stands are not rated for any weight capacity. They stabilize a boat that is supported by its keel. Most commonly a boat is set on “keel blocks,” then boat stands are placed on each side to ensure the boat stays balanced on the blocking. Boat stands are commonly called “Poppits.” They are excellent tools when used as intended. Misused they can be deadly.
Funny how some seemed to understand
that the possible problem was caused by a mysterious devise that is used to keep boats from capsizing while docked on the hard. By whatever name they do the job. Edit to attach link: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS213US213&q=sailboat+jack+stands&revid=281643176&sa=X&oi=revisions_inline&resnum=0&ct=broad-revision&cd=7
that the possible problem was caused by a mysterious devise that is used to keep boats from capsizing while docked on the hard. By whatever name they do the job. Edit to attach link: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS213US213&q=sailboat+jack+stands&revid=281643176&sa=X&oi=revisions_inline&resnum=0&ct=broad-revision&cd=7
Jack Stands!!!
I'm all for freedom of speach. But in my marina they are called jack stands. Seems like after 40 years they would have learned what they are really called! Jeeze.
I'm all for freedom of speach. But in my marina they are called jack stands. Seems like after 40 years they would have learned what they are really called! Jeeze.
Bulkhead Problems?
I had a similar 'dent' appear in the hull of a boat several years ago. After a long search for problems, we found that the chainplate bulkhead had partially separated at the settee level. The break caused the deck to lift slightly and the added strain on the deck/hull joint caused the hull to dent to take up the strain. There was about 3/4" offset in the break and the dent was a smooth anomaly in the hull centered at the area of the break and deck lift. You might simply have overtightened shrouds or some other more sinister problem. Have a surveyor examine it, have a rigger check the rig adjustment ...
I had a similar 'dent' appear in the hull of a boat several years ago. After a long search for problems, we found that the chainplate bulkhead had partially separated at the settee level. The break caused the deck to lift slightly and the added strain on the deck/hull joint caused the hull to dent to take up the strain. There was about 3/4" offset in the break and the dent was a smooth anomaly in the hull centered at the area of the break and deck lift. You might simply have overtightened shrouds or some other more sinister problem. Have a surveyor examine it, have a rigger check the rig adjustment ...
my guess is!!!!!!
i own a 1979 O'Day 30 and if the cap and intermediate shrouds are adj too tight it will exhibate similar indentations in the hull. has to do with the design of how the bulkheads that support the chainplates to the hull are designed. i don't think its a major problem unless when the rig is loosened they don't go away. a lot of cruising boats i don't think were designed with as stiff a rig as some of the race boats..at one time there was an article in the archives about a guy that had to rebuild the supports on his oday because the support rotted. i suspect that the morgan may have a similar design. S/V Que Pasa?
i own a 1979 O'Day 30 and if the cap and intermediate shrouds are adj too tight it will exhibate similar indentations in the hull. has to do with the design of how the bulkheads that support the chainplates to the hull are designed. i don't think its a major problem unless when the rig is loosened they don't go away. a lot of cruising boats i don't think were designed with as stiff a rig as some of the race boats..at one time there was an article in the archives about a guy that had to rebuild the supports on his oday because the support rotted. i suspect that the morgan may have a similar design. S/V Que Pasa?
Cptn Jim is probably on to it......
This may be a symptom of long term 'creep' (long term 'plastic' deformation) due to overtighened cap shrouds, etc., etc. Plastics (plastics, glass or other 'visco-elastic' materials) when long term stressed exhibit such 'plastic' / permanent deformation - an example would be take a large sheet of window glass and 'store' it at a 45 deg. angle and supported only by the ends, then come back a few years and find that the glass now has a significant 'curve' instead of a flat/straight shape. 'Creep' - a long term 'yield failure' deformation that occurs slowly and with less stress needed than the 'normal' ultimate tensile/yield, etc. values .... slowly 'stretching' etc. out of shape due to long term stress applied. This would take a surveyor that has a healthy experience in 'materials science' to figure out / assay correctly. If the hull section has 'moved' deformed, then it suggests a possible 'weakening' of the structure due to 'creep'. I would think that most prudent surveyors (those without such 'materials' background) will list this as a potential failure .... to be correctly 'conservative' during their exam. Obviously, Im not looking at this so my 'from afar' analysis may be way off .... you really need to SEE such 'structural anomalies' to offer better than an educated guess. Got a pic that you can post? The simple logic/engineering premise is: if deformed/distorted = 'weaker'. hope this helps.
This may be a symptom of long term 'creep' (long term 'plastic' deformation) due to overtighened cap shrouds, etc., etc. Plastics (plastics, glass or other 'visco-elastic' materials) when long term stressed exhibit such 'plastic' / permanent deformation - an example would be take a large sheet of window glass and 'store' it at a 45 deg. angle and supported only by the ends, then come back a few years and find that the glass now has a significant 'curve' instead of a flat/straight shape. 'Creep' - a long term 'yield failure' deformation that occurs slowly and with less stress needed than the 'normal' ultimate tensile/yield, etc. values .... slowly 'stretching' etc. out of shape due to long term stress applied. This would take a surveyor that has a healthy experience in 'materials science' to figure out / assay correctly. If the hull section has 'moved' deformed, then it suggests a possible 'weakening' of the structure due to 'creep'. I would think that most prudent surveyors (those without such 'materials' background) will list this as a potential failure .... to be correctly 'conservative' during their exam. Obviously, Im not looking at this so my 'from afar' analysis may be way off .... you really need to SEE such 'structural anomalies' to offer better than an educated guess. Got a pic that you can post? The simple logic/engineering premise is: if deformed/distorted = 'weaker'. hope this helps.
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