Hull Flex on trailer

[ryman522]

I just took a look at a Catalina 22. I am new to the boat but not new to sailing. Very excited about the boat i just looked at. Only thing I noticed was that the hull was flexing, or almost looked like sagging on the trailer down near the keel. It was about 2 feet away from the keel where the wooden trailer bunks are, and was caused by the boat sitting on the wooden bunks. My guess is it was loaded on the wooden bunks wrong or the bunks warped. Anyways, I am curious if this is normal, and if this is permanent. I am hoping it is just due to the weight of the boat, and once off the trailer it will regain its shape. Owner said the boat has sat there for a couple years on the trailer, and knowing Minnesota, there very well could be snow that laid on top of it.

I know the boat has pretty flexible hulls but i just wonder if it could sag or delam. There were no blisters or cracks around the area, which is about a foot in diameter.

I know i could drop the boat in the water but the trailer needs some work and I unfortunately am pretty busy the rest of this sailing season.

Thanks

 

[Ken]

Would this be at the aft end of the bunks?

Pictures would be nice, but I once had a 22 that the PO owner had let fill with water the boat reared up on the trailer and the bolsters punched through the hull. The hull was dented in but came right back within twenty four hours of being put in a good trailer.

 

[jfrench]

There are two teak plywood bulkheads under the cockpit at approximately the location you're describing. These are intended to add stiffness to an otherwise very flexible fiberglass hull. If water gathers inside the boat during long periods of storage it can rot the bottoms of these and they no longer provide support.

Also, if it's a "swing keel," check to see if the keel has been allowed down to rest its weight on the trailer as it should be, or if it's still cranked up and hanging on the winch cable. If it's still dangling from the cable it's putting an extra 400 or so pounds on the hull.

 

[ryman522]

It is actually the fore end of the keel, but now that I think about it, i dont remember the forward bulkhead in the cabin which would be the backrest for the seat at the dinette. Does this sound correct? And if so is this repairable? Or has letting the boat sit without the bulkhead damage the glass too much?

 

[jfrench]

I can't imagine the fiberglass hull being permanently damaged. At worst it may have taken a permanent bend, but that should be reshaped if a missing bulkhead is replaced. And it would likely take years of pressure to permanently reshape it. Until the fiberglass shows cracks, blistering, or delamination it's not damaged. If you want to check, jack the hull up off the trailer using wooden shoring and a scissors or hydraulic jack. See if the hull flexs back to its proper shape.

Since you describe the hull flex at the "fore end" of the hull, perhaps you need to add a keel roller to your trailer to support the bow section.

Another detail I noticed in re-reading your original post, is that you describe the bunks as being about 2 feet either side of the keel. They should be further out than that. The bunks should ride close to where the hull begins to curve upward. There is greater strength near the vertical edges of the hull. By the time you get to the front end of the bunks, they should be coming ever so slightly out from under the hull to the outside edges. Just don't put 'em ridiculously far out, they DO have to support the boat's weight. If your bunks are positioned completely on the nearly flat underbelly of the boat, I would expect to see some flex. I'm only familiar with this because I just finished replacing the bunks on my trailer and spent many hours underneath it finding proper locations for jacking it and later for supporting it with bunks.

 

[Ken]

If the bulkheads have been removed you might want to double check the compression post as well. Do you remember the year of the boat?

Beginning to sound like one to run away from, with hundreds out there to choose from better to find one not in bad shape or one that's been taken apart.

 

[Richie50]

JFrench, can you explain further about raising the boat off the bunks. I attempted this based on some postings while painting the bottom. I stopped when I saw the hull flexing just aft of the bunks. I need some more advise. Thanks. Richie

 

[jfrench]

Jacking a Cat

See the attached pix for how to jack up a Cat. Rather than buy 4 x 4's for about $12 bucks each, I got twice as many 2 x 4's @ $2.50 each and joined them with 3" screws. Using them in sets of two, criss-crossed on the way up, the shoring stays stable and safe. Another important detail is to saw some wedges to fill in the gaps against the hull, Using them in sets of two or more, one on top of the other allows you to adjust their angle against the fiberglass. If you're just trying to get the weight off the hull, you don't need all the shoring, just lay one beam across the trailer to support the jack and jack against the centerline of the hull near the bow where it's narrow and strong. Most of it's just patience.

About the hull flexing aft of the bunks, mine did too. I cut a sheet of 1/4" plywood and placed it against the fiberglass to distribute the pressure over a wider area than just where the shoring touched.

Like the other guy said, don't spend too much time on it. There's lots of fish in the sea.

 

[ryman522]

Yah i am not sure if i should run or not. Compression post is still there. PO passed away and relatives are selling it. Im guessing they removed the bulkhead if it was rotting in attempts to clean the boat. I got the relatives down to 750 with trailer, and it has brand new sails in the plastic bags, on top of the old sails.

 

[jfrench]

If the trailer's great, you could always part-out the boat and buy a better one that has no trailer.

 

[Ken]

Buy it !!
I think you'll find trailers are in huge demand and very hard to find. They also command about 1000.00 when found. You also have the option of using the sails on any future boat should you decide to part out the boat.

If you can find the original bulkhead to use for a pattern replacing them is pretty straight forward. It's good they left the compression post in...

Here is a couple of pictures of the system built to remove boats from the trailer. Also the most valuable tool is a high lift jack, which makes removing the boat from the trailer much easier. That said, one still must be most careful, and the keel that puppy is 550 lbs of iron..

A 4X6X14' with two articulating pads for the bow, two 55 gal drums with a 2X10X6 with a old boogie board for padding placed under the transom. For a wing keel (my current boat) I had to make a frame to place on the drums.
Also a picture of the swing keel sled.

 

[Richie50]

jfrench and Ken, thanks for information. I welcome any tips you may have. As for lifting the stern what area did you use as a jacking/lift point.

 

[Ken]

The transom sits about a foot on the barrels, You would want to remove any paint before putting the boat on the barrels as about a foot of it will be on the barrels and you won't be able to get to it. The boogie board is cheap and makes the best padding for this.

If you choose this method letting the tongue jack all the way down will allow placement of the barrels. My friends have used my barrels to do six bottom jobs, at least one sat on the barrel for more than a year. My own boat sat on them for five months. That area is very strong.

 

[Phaedrus]

I'm new to sailing and just bought a boat. One of the pieces of advice I read on this forum when I was looking for a boat was "If you want a project, buy a project boat. If you want to sail get one that's ready to sail. You rarely save money fixing one up". I almost jumped at the first boat I saw but am glad I didn’t. I am now sailing my boat rather than working on it. As has been stated many times before, there are lots of Catalina 22’s out there so there is no pressure to grab one quickly. That being said, if it has a lot of good gear as JFrench and Ken said you can part out the boat keeping all of the good stuff to use on another boat that doesn't need as much work. Trailers are scarce and do bring a premium price if you want to sell it. And the new sails could very well be worth the asking price of the boat. Just make sure they are correct for the boat before making that assumption.

I’m doing kind of the same thing only in reverse. I bought a good boat that is sailable but has just the basics. 2 jibs a main sail and rotted cushions. It also came with a trailer and 8 horse 4 stroke Honda outboard. I have sailed it for a little while with just the basics and had a blast. I have since lucked into a damaged boat with 6 sails, freshly re-covered cushions, and lines led aft rigging, new winches et al. I’m getting this one for a relative song and dance. I’ll take all of the best stuff from both and outfit my good boat. I’m going to put enough stuff on the damaged boat to make it sailable and donate it to the sea scouts if I can’t sell it pretty quickly. The second boat doesn’t come with a trailer so I’ll have to drop my good one in a slip for a month while I do the swapping. All said I’ll be into a well found boat with trailer and motor for around $1700.00.

I guess it boils down to which you would rather do. Work on a project or sail.

Just my novice $0.02 worth.