Wondered if anyone could tell me if the 322 hull and topsides are double skinned, and if so, what are they filled with - or are they single skin?
Cheers, Mike.
Cheers, Mike.
Hull construction
- Thread starter Mike Wannell
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The hull is solid fiberglass layup and the top is balsa cored in some areas and marine ply cored in others.
Thanks that's what I thought.
The problem is when the 322 was shipped to the U.K. she arrived with creases down both sides of the hull about 18 inches below deck level. The port side crease was a lot longer, about five feet, both ran parallel to the deck. The gell coat was not broken so that would suggest that it happened when the hull was green out of the mold.
I have been told that the crease was not there in 2004 if that is true the hull would not have been green, this means it was perhaps done rubbing against a dock ?
I have tried asking the lady we bought the 322 from but she has stopped answering my emails.
When you look through the inspection hole in the inner pan there is no sign of the crease from the inside this would suggest that she has a twin hull.
Does anyone have any ideas ?
The problem is when the 322 was shipped to the U.K. she arrived with creases down both sides of the hull about 18 inches below deck level. The port side crease was a lot longer, about five feet, both ran parallel to the deck. The gell coat was not broken so that would suggest that it happened when the hull was green out of the mold.
I have been told that the crease was not there in 2004 if that is true the hull would not have been green, this means it was perhaps done rubbing against a dock ?
I have tried asking the lady we bought the 322 from but she has stopped answering my emails.
When you look through the inspection hole in the inner pan there is no sign of the crease from the inside this would suggest that she has a twin hull.
Does anyone have any ideas ?
The crease you are seeing is normal for the 322. The chainplates on this boat connect in a way that causes the hull to pull in slightly. They normally pull in to a point and settle, but some rare cases can be problematic. Have a surveyor inspect it if you feel it is a problem. The reason you do not see it looking into the pan hole is because the pan connection to the hull at the area is what is pullin in. My surveyor told me that if you see these creases, you are probably ok. If you do not, the pan may have seperated from the hull at this location.
Mine has these and so does two others I have looked at.
I do want to stress that it should be scrutinized by a surveyor (that knows o'days) if you are purchasing this boat.
Mine has these and so does two others I have looked at.
I do want to stress that it should be scrutinized by a surveyor (that knows o'days) if you are purchasing this boat.
Mike:
Finding a surveyor in England familiar with this old boat will be a challange. However, good surveyors will get you the right answer and are worth the money.
With your question you need to qualify the surveyor first. If he is not familiar with this boat, he could give you wrong information.
Southern Comfort has given you some important information. Unfortunately you are telling us that the creases are different lengths. Consider that something happened in shipping? Could it have been the boat was not properly supported for the ride over? Rough seas casuing it to move around?
From what Southern Comfort has told you and the information a surveyor will give you, you may need the advice of an experienced FRP boat repairer as to how to fix the problem if in fact there is one. Good fiberglass repair people usually can fix any problem, but they have to be good and have appropriate experience.
Surveyors will tell you what you need to fix. That 'to do' list is important.
The lady involved most likely does not know how to answer your question.
Ed K
26
Finding a surveyor in England familiar with this old boat will be a challange. However, good surveyors will get you the right answer and are worth the money.
With your question you need to qualify the surveyor first. If he is not familiar with this boat, he could give you wrong information.
Southern Comfort has given you some important information. Unfortunately you are telling us that the creases are different lengths. Consider that something happened in shipping? Could it have been the boat was not properly supported for the ride over? Rough seas casuing it to move around?
From what Southern Comfort has told you and the information a surveyor will give you, you may need the advice of an experienced FRP boat repairer as to how to fix the problem if in fact there is one. Good fiberglass repair people usually can fix any problem, but they have to be good and have appropriate experience.
Surveyors will tell you what you need to fix. That 'to do' list is important.
The lady involved most likely does not know how to answer your question.
Ed K
26
Hi Ed
WE HAD THE BOAT SURVEYED IN THE STATES BEFORE WE BOUGHT.
THE SURVEYOR WHO WAS FROM KEY WEST, THE BOATS HOME PORT STATED
"there was a slight crease where the hull pressed against a hard surface. At this crease there were no cracks on the outside gelcoat or inside the hull.It has no structural importance."
THATS THE PART WE FIND HARD TO UNDERSTAND. THE PHOTO OF THE CREASE THE SURVEYOR TOOK MATCHES THE CREASE ON THE PORT SIDE.
IF IT WAS IMPACT DAMAGE YOU WOULD THINK THAT THE GELCOAT MUST SHOW CRACKS AT SOME POINT OVER THE FIVE FEET! IT ALSO MEANS THAT THE DAMAGE WAS NOT DONE IN TRANSIT.
THANKS FOR THE TIP ABOUT FINDING A GOOD FIBERGLASS MAN TO DO THE REPAIR ,THAT IS NOT AN ISSUE, WE DO KNOW ONE.
WE ARE JUST TRYING TO FIND OUT AS MUCH ABOUT THE 322 's HULL AS POSSIBLE BEFORE SPENDING $1OOO's TO FIX IT.....THERE ARE NO OTHER 322's IN THE U.K. SO WE HAVE NO DATA BASE TO DRAW FROM
THANKS
MIKE
WE HAD THE BOAT SURVEYED IN THE STATES BEFORE WE BOUGHT.
THE SURVEYOR WHO WAS FROM KEY WEST, THE BOATS HOME PORT STATED
"there was a slight crease where the hull pressed against a hard surface. At this crease there were no cracks on the outside gelcoat or inside the hull.It has no structural importance."
THATS THE PART WE FIND HARD TO UNDERSTAND. THE PHOTO OF THE CREASE THE SURVEYOR TOOK MATCHES THE CREASE ON THE PORT SIDE.
IF IT WAS IMPACT DAMAGE YOU WOULD THINK THAT THE GELCOAT MUST SHOW CRACKS AT SOME POINT OVER THE FIVE FEET! IT ALSO MEANS THAT THE DAMAGE WAS NOT DONE IN TRANSIT.
THANKS FOR THE TIP ABOUT FINDING A GOOD FIBERGLASS MAN TO DO THE REPAIR ,THAT IS NOT AN ISSUE, WE DO KNOW ONE.
WE ARE JUST TRYING TO FIND OUT AS MUCH ABOUT THE 322 's HULL AS POSSIBLE BEFORE SPENDING $1OOO's TO FIX IT.....THERE ARE NO OTHER 322's IN THE U.K. SO WE HAVE NO DATA BASE TO DRAW FROM
THANKS
MIKE
Mike,
I agree with your question, but in messing around with boats I have seen stranger things. I have seen dents with out cracks or scratches in racing sailboats after bumps.
If there is supposed to be no structural issues, why not live with crease. It will be hard to match the gelcoat so that will be an issue unless you are planning to paint the whole hull. Such patch jobs without a paint job will most likely show.
Here is a web site that might help if you proceed:
http://www.minicraft.com/Retail/oday.htm
Ed K
26
I agree with your question, but in messing around with boats I have seen stranger things. I have seen dents with out cracks or scratches in racing sailboats after bumps.
If there is supposed to be no structural issues, why not live with crease. It will be hard to match the gelcoat so that will be an issue unless you are planning to paint the whole hull. Such patch jobs without a paint job will most likely show.
Here is a web site that might help if you proceed:
http://www.minicraft.com/Retail/oday.htm
Ed K
26
Ed
Once again many thanks for the link to the web site, We might make use of it if we go down that road. The surveyor said there were no structural issues......If I was 100%
sure he was not talking out of his butt I would do nothing, nor would I if we were never
going to sell the boat, but at some time ....although we hope it is a long time away, we will have to sell. We are giong to find it very hard to sell an O'Day in the U.K. a boat that is not known over here, even without the creases. (you have to see them)
My cousin was a line manager with SUNSEAKERS, he has spent his life building boats
and has said he will do the hull for us. I also have a friend that could do the respray.
We have had a surveyor take a look at the 322 over here but because its not a boat whose hull construction he knows about, We are both trying to find out as much as possible before doing major work.
I have to say I am with you, I love the boat and am happy to live with the crease,
but I do know that if I do nothing, witout a strong statement from a respected surveyor,when it does come time to sell it will be sat on the hard for a long time with people making silly offers.
Thanks again for taking the time to reply to this post and also for the web site link when we do get around to it, we will contact them for the paint.
Fair winds to you all
Mike
Once again many thanks for the link to the web site, We might make use of it if we go down that road. The surveyor said there were no structural issues......If I was 100%
sure he was not talking out of his butt I would do nothing, nor would I if we were never
going to sell the boat, but at some time ....although we hope it is a long time away, we will have to sell. We are giong to find it very hard to sell an O'Day in the U.K. a boat that is not known over here, even without the creases. (you have to see them)
My cousin was a line manager with SUNSEAKERS, he has spent his life building boats
and has said he will do the hull for us. I also have a friend that could do the respray.
We have had a surveyor take a look at the 322 over here but because its not a boat whose hull construction he knows about, We are both trying to find out as much as possible before doing major work.
I have to say I am with you, I love the boat and am happy to live with the crease,
but I do know that if I do nothing, witout a strong statement from a respected surveyor,when it does come time to sell it will be sat on the hard for a long time with people making silly offers.
Thanks again for taking the time to reply to this post and also for the web site link when we do get around to it, we will contact them for the paint.
Fair winds to you all
Mike
Mike,
The creases in my 322 are between 3 feet and 4 feet in length. They are best viewed from standing on the deck at the shrouds looking down the sides to the water. Mine are perfectly normal. I sent you the contact info for my surveyor so you can get some answers and peace of mind with this.
Most folks that notice these creases in 322s immediately asume it crashed into a dock due to there location. They do look alarming to someone that does not know what they are and that they are normal for this design.
The chainplates on these boats attach to a reinforced section of the pan liner. This pan liner is glassed to the hull at the top of the settee and saloon (book shelf area). This connection of the pan and hull (linear bonded area) is where the pan liner is pulling the hull in and causing the creases.
Since we cannot see your actual boat, let us know how deep the creases are? Mie are about a centimeter deep.
Keep us posted on what you find out down the road with this.
The creases in my 322 are between 3 feet and 4 feet in length. They are best viewed from standing on the deck at the shrouds looking down the sides to the water. Mine are perfectly normal. I sent you the contact info for my surveyor so you can get some answers and peace of mind with this.
Most folks that notice these creases in 322s immediately asume it crashed into a dock due to there location. They do look alarming to someone that does not know what they are and that they are normal for this design.
The chainplates on these boats attach to a reinforced section of the pan liner. This pan liner is glassed to the hull at the top of the settee and saloon (book shelf area). This connection of the pan and hull (linear bonded area) is where the pan liner is pulling the hull in and causing the creases.
Since we cannot see your actual boat, let us know how deep the creases are? Mie are about a centimeter deep.
Keep us posted on what you find out down the road with this.
Mike,
Some additional thoughts:
The designer of your boat is listed as C. Raymond Hunt Associates of Mass., USA.
These guys are still around. However, they will not respond to any questions from an individual other than to say that all original plans that they had were sent to Mystic Seaport Museum of ships' plans.
It cost bucks to get copies of the original plans from Mystic, but they will do it.
Hunt & Associates might respond to a question from a professional surveyor with creditials.
The interesting aspect of your question is that these creases are of different lengths.
Reading Southern Comforts remarks and relating them to your original discussion as to when the creases occurred. Keep in mind that those experienced in fiberglass boats say that as fiberglass ages it continues to dry and cure. Could we be looking at a defect that was not present at factory but as boat aged and FRP cured the liner shrunk causing the crease development?
I have been told by experience boat repair men that a 30 year old fiberglass boat is still good, but that the glass is much more rigid. This rigidity is the cause of surface cracks in older boats.
I am not familiar with the bulkhead arrangement in your boat. I would ask how the bulkheads relate to the crease. Do the bulkheads provide good horizontal support to the hull shape at the point of creases? After the early 1980's, boat manufacturers, including O'Day, made the cabins more open. That apparently has reduced horizontal stuctural support. I suspect that a few centimeters is not critical but may be cosmetic, that is noticeable.
In summary, FRP curing may be a factor and location of horizontal support may be another. Neither of which is probably significant to structural integrity.
Again, as Southern Comfort has said, keep us informed.
Ed K
26
Some additional thoughts:
The designer of your boat is listed as C. Raymond Hunt Associates of Mass., USA.
These guys are still around. However, they will not respond to any questions from an individual other than to say that all original plans that they had were sent to Mystic Seaport Museum of ships' plans.
It cost bucks to get copies of the original plans from Mystic, but they will do it.
Hunt & Associates might respond to a question from a professional surveyor with creditials.
The interesting aspect of your question is that these creases are of different lengths.
Reading Southern Comforts remarks and relating them to your original discussion as to when the creases occurred. Keep in mind that those experienced in fiberglass boats say that as fiberglass ages it continues to dry and cure. Could we be looking at a defect that was not present at factory but as boat aged and FRP cured the liner shrunk causing the crease development?
I have been told by experience boat repair men that a 30 year old fiberglass boat is still good, but that the glass is much more rigid. This rigidity is the cause of surface cracks in older boats.
I am not familiar with the bulkhead arrangement in your boat. I would ask how the bulkheads relate to the crease. Do the bulkheads provide good horizontal support to the hull shape at the point of creases? After the early 1980's, boat manufacturers, including O'Day, made the cabins more open. That apparently has reduced horizontal stuctural support. I suspect that a few centimeters is not critical but may be cosmetic, that is noticeable.
In summary, FRP curing may be a factor and location of horizontal support may be another. Neither of which is probably significant to structural integrity.
Again, as Southern Comfort has said, keep us informed.
Ed K
26
Four years ago we bought a 302 from NJ and had a problem finding some specs about stability in order to obtain what is called a "C.E.PLATE" it's a lot of bureaucracy and money that means very little, but it is illegal to sail a boat over here without one.
My wife contacted C. Raymond Hunt Associates and they were very helpfull she was emaild three or four times by one of the boat designers. We liked the boat so much that in 2007 we desided to upgrade to the 322.
I think that most hull are "GREEN" for around two or so years and that is the time when the creases are most likely to happen. The thing I can't get my head around is that the owner in Tarpon Springs who owned the boat up until 2005 has told us that there were no creases in the hull when he had her.The boat would then have been 16yrs old, beyond the age that you would expect new creases to happen.
When the hull is tapped around the creases you can hear that in certain areas there would appear to be some places that have air behind them, this would point to delamination but only if it was single skinned....HENCE MY ORIGIONAL QUESTION.
I would say that the bulkheads do give good support, but you do make a very good point about them.
I realy can live with the creases but its your last comment about structural integrity that will be the deal breaker.
Once again thanks for takeing an interest.
Best Regards
Mike
My wife contacted C. Raymond Hunt Associates and they were very helpfull she was emaild three or four times by one of the boat designers. We liked the boat so much that in 2007 we desided to upgrade to the 322.
I think that most hull are "GREEN" for around two or so years and that is the time when the creases are most likely to happen. The thing I can't get my head around is that the owner in Tarpon Springs who owned the boat up until 2005 has told us that there were no creases in the hull when he had her.The boat would then have been 16yrs old, beyond the age that you would expect new creases to happen.
When the hull is tapped around the creases you can hear that in certain areas there would appear to be some places that have air behind them, this would point to delamination but only if it was single skinned....HENCE MY ORIGIONAL QUESTION.
I would say that the bulkheads do give good support, but you do make a very good point about them.
I realy can live with the creases but its your last comment about structural integrity that will be the deal breaker.
Once again thanks for takeing an interest.
Best Regards
Mike
The 302 and the 322 were built in the last few years of O'DAY's existance and at a time when it appears a bit of "cost-cutting" may have been happening. There is a common problem on the 302 and 322 where the hull laminate wasn't layed up as heavily as it should have been in the area where the inner liner is glassed to the hull and as the hull flexes the liner contact creates a hard spot, causing a "crease" to form. Also, since the chainplates are anchored to the liner, they further flex the crease making it worse. Depending on conditions, impacting a dock or constant contact with a floating dock could also flex the hull side and make this crease worse.
The Boat repair guy that told me about this was in the process of repairing a 302 by laying up additional glass on the outside of the hull over the crease to reenforce that area. He then was going the paint the hull. The boat is no longer at that boatyard, so I don't know how the repair has held up, but based on other repairs done by this person, I'd rely on his judgement.
The Boat repair guy that told me about this was in the process of repairing a 302 by laying up additional glass on the outside of the hull over the crease to reenforce that area. He then was going the paint the hull. The boat is no longer at that boatyard, so I don't know how the repair has held up, but based on other repairs done by this person, I'd rely on his judgement.
hull construction oday
i purchased the 30 oday in 1977 still own the boat the vertical crease started to show after about 5 yrs it is caused from the tension from the shrouds pulling on the chain plate mine is about 3ft long or so in the 26 yrs it hasnt changed the one thing most is to be sure that the deck core has no delamination if the deck is soft in that area it needs to be adressed to be sure water doesent leak in around where the chainplate exits thruogh the deck remove teak box from shelve area remove cloth liner and check the bond of the chainplate support and hull if the cloth is wet water is coming in from where the chainplate exits to the shrouds other than leaking in this area i wouldnt worry about the crease i have sailed my boat on lake huron and superior in weather that can rival that of oceans never had a problem this boat loves heavy weather enjoy the boat best regards captain jim
i purchased the 30 oday in 1977 still own the boat the vertical crease started to show after about 5 yrs it is caused from the tension from the shrouds pulling on the chain plate mine is about 3ft long or so in the 26 yrs it hasnt changed the one thing most is to be sure that the deck core has no delamination if the deck is soft in that area it needs to be adressed to be sure water doesent leak in around where the chainplate exits thruogh the deck remove teak box from shelve area remove cloth liner and check the bond of the chainplate support and hull if the cloth is wet water is coming in from where the chainplate exits to the shrouds other than leaking in this area i wouldnt worry about the crease i have sailed my boat on lake huron and superior in weather that can rival that of oceans never had a problem this boat loves heavy weather enjoy the boat best regards captain jim
Hi Sunbird and Captain Jim
Many thanks for your input, have spoken to a surveyor who knows Oday boats that Southern Comfort put us in touch with, and he says much the same - nothing to worry about, it's the way they were built. Would love to know how the filling and painting held up Sunbird, as we are thinking of doing the same thing but also re-enforcing the inside. There is no sign of any water getting in, decks are all solid, in fact boat is great other than the creases.
Kind regards
Mike and Sandy
Many thanks for your input, have spoken to a surveyor who knows Oday boats that Southern Comfort put us in touch with, and he says much the same - nothing to worry about, it's the way they were built. Would love to know how the filling and painting held up Sunbird, as we are thinking of doing the same thing but also re-enforcing the inside. There is no sign of any water getting in, decks are all solid, in fact boat is great other than the creases.
Kind regards
Mike and Sandy
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