With the costs of buying and maintaining a sailboat rising each year, finding ways to reduce expenditures is on the minds of many sailors. One way to save money is by entering into a partnership with a fellow sailor. Partnerships are a way to reduce your costs and divide maintenance chores, but they may also present other -- possibly difficult -- circumstances. Scheduling sail time aside, the need may arise to clearly define who does what, when, and how. If professional maintenance is needed, or a piece of expensive gear needs replacement, what decision making machinery must be in place beforehand to avoid indecision or arguments? Another critical need in a partnership is agreement on how a partner leaves the partnership and how a new partner may be added. Have you ever been in a partnership? If so, how did work -- or not? Would you ever consider a partnership on your boat? On a new boat? Share your thoughts and experiences about partnerships here, then take the Quick Quiz on the home page. (Discussion topic and quiz by Warren Milberg)
- Status
No way!
Before buying my current good old boat, I looked at another one just like it that was owned by a 3 person partnership. I was curious about how that worked for them so we discussed it briefly. As you would suspect, there are positives and negitives. Everyone shared equally in the expenses and supposedly any work to be done was also shared equally. In actual practice, most of the work was done by one partner (who had some skills that were handy) but the costs of material were shared. If one partner decided to leave, the other 2 had to buy him out at his original investment cost. To me the biggest downside was getting everyone to agree on upgrades. One partner didn't want to spend any money that wasn't absolutely necessary while another wanted to fix up the boat with nice to have options. There was also disagreement about the color of the canvas, etc. They had a fixed schedule of when which partner could use the boat, but they were able to swap around from time to time. So they felt that worked ok. I thought briefly about a partnership, but decided against it. I just bought an older boat (in pretty good shape at a great price) and I am doing the upgrades that I want with out any committee meetings or arguments. I take it out when I feel like it and stay out as long as I wish. Partnerships may work for some, but I think I would be unhappy with that situation. Better to buy a less expensive boat than to have to share.
Before buying my current good old boat, I looked at another one just like it that was owned by a 3 person partnership. I was curious about how that worked for them so we discussed it briefly. As you would suspect, there are positives and negitives. Everyone shared equally in the expenses and supposedly any work to be done was also shared equally. In actual practice, most of the work was done by one partner (who had some skills that were handy) but the costs of material were shared. If one partner decided to leave, the other 2 had to buy him out at his original investment cost. To me the biggest downside was getting everyone to agree on upgrades. One partner didn't want to spend any money that wasn't absolutely necessary while another wanted to fix up the boat with nice to have options. There was also disagreement about the color of the canvas, etc. They had a fixed schedule of when which partner could use the boat, but they were able to swap around from time to time. So they felt that worked ok. I thought briefly about a partnership, but decided against it. I just bought an older boat (in pretty good shape at a great price) and I am doing the upgrades that I want with out any committee meetings or arguments. I take it out when I feel like it and stay out as long as I wish. Partnerships may work for some, but I think I would be unhappy with that situation. Better to buy a less expensive boat than to have to share.
Partnership works great for me
I have had a partnership on our Irwin now for over 5 years. I have always loved sailing and in college a fraternity brother and I always talked of sailing. I was looking for a small day sailer and my college friend made the suggestion that we get a larger cruising boat and become partners. I have to say I was a little concerned, since I have heard of many issues with partnerships. We talked it through, if either wants out we can buy the other out. When we purchased the boat, it did need some work. I put in more time, and this lowered my up front cash. We split all expenses 50/50. Right now the boat is on the hard and we are painting and working. It has been a great experience and has keep our close college friendship going, depite, wifes, work and kids. If you have the right partner it can work great. Maybe next we will parntner on a plane. (but we will keep or upgrade the boat)
I have had a partnership on our Irwin now for over 5 years. I have always loved sailing and in college a fraternity brother and I always talked of sailing. I was looking for a small day sailer and my college friend made the suggestion that we get a larger cruising boat and become partners. I have to say I was a little concerned, since I have heard of many issues with partnerships. We talked it through, if either wants out we can buy the other out. When we purchased the boat, it did need some work. I put in more time, and this lowered my up front cash. We split all expenses 50/50. Right now the boat is on the hard and we are painting and working. It has been a great experience and has keep our close college friendship going, depite, wifes, work and kids. If you have the right partner it can work great. Maybe next we will parntner on a plane. (but we will keep or upgrade the boat)
I'll agree with John, but in a different way ...
Share a boat? No sir. The sailboat I should chose would be the pride and joy of my life. Would you share a woman who is your wife? Sail on ... Tom
Share a boat? No sir. The sailboat I should chose would be the pride and joy of my life. Would you share a woman who is your wife? Sail on ... Tom
No! No! No!
Like the old saying, been thare done that, not to do it again. When i was in partnership my partner thought his 50% money was enought. I did all the work, and 50% of the money. After the third season he came to me one day and said he was selling his half. Needless to say the partnership is no more, and never will be again.
Like the old saying, been thare done that, not to do it again. When i was in partnership my partner thought his 50% money was enought. I did all the work, and 50% of the money. After the third season he came to me one day and said he was selling his half. Needless to say the partnership is no more, and never will be again.
Option to partnership
In many places, there are companies that provide boats on a time-share basis. The company owns the boat and you get sailing time on an annual fee basis. The company does the maintenance. The annual fees are not much more than what it would cost to dock the boat. This kind of arrangement eliminates both the upfront cost and most inter-personal issues associated with a boat partnership. The following are Boston companies with cruising boats: Sail-Time, Boston Sailing Center, and Boston Harbor Sailing Center.
In many places, there are companies that provide boats on a time-share basis. The company owns the boat and you get sailing time on an annual fee basis. The company does the maintenance. The annual fees are not much more than what it would cost to dock the boat. This kind of arrangement eliminates both the upfront cost and most inter-personal issues associated with a boat partnership. The following are Boston companies with cruising boats: Sail-Time, Boston Sailing Center, and Boston Harbor Sailing Center.
Works Well Sometimes
I am in two partnerships. One is a 22' Fay Bowen 1915 launch. We have 15 couples as members, known as 'The Larks'. The second is a 24' Playcraft pontoon boat on a local lake owned by ten of us, known as 'Neptune's Folly'. In one case, we prepared bylaws, purchasing regs and budget before buying. In the other, it was done in a similar fashion. Both organizations have set processes for expenditures, usage, maintenance, sale and wind-up. We also have processes for membership, and terminations. In both cases, members are also members of yacht clubs. This works well to have the adventure of a different boat in a different venue than you would otherwise, at pretty modest expense. It helps to have a few people who are handy in the group too. Rick D.
I am in two partnerships. One is a 22' Fay Bowen 1915 launch. We have 15 couples as members, known as 'The Larks'. The second is a 24' Playcraft pontoon boat on a local lake owned by ten of us, known as 'Neptune's Folly'. In one case, we prepared bylaws, purchasing regs and budget before buying. In the other, it was done in a similar fashion. Both organizations have set processes for expenditures, usage, maintenance, sale and wind-up. We also have processes for membership, and terminations. In both cases, members are also members of yacht clubs. This works well to have the adventure of a different boat in a different venue than you would otherwise, at pretty modest expense. It helps to have a few people who are handy in the group too. Rick D.
Equal partnership is seldom equal
I was in a partnership for a baot with my brother for many years. I am the one who always anticipated the maintenance and performed the upgrades. My brother was interested in using the boat when it was convenient for him, and ignoring it when he was busy. Since I live a considerable distance from the coast, and my brother lives at the boat, I thought it made sense. He would be there in the event the boat needed attention due to a storm or some other problem. Long story made short, I don't believe that two boaters ever share exactly the same level of interest in all aspects of boat ownership. When you think about it, the whole idea of partership comes about because both parties are trying to get away without full responsibility for the boat. expectations should be discussed thouroughly and a written agreement should be formulated. That is probably what makes time share ownership work. Having a company take responsibility for care of the boat, scheduling of use, and acting as the referee for disputes. I have thought about trying a time share, but the unhappy experience with my brother has me thinking twice about it. My brother and I no longer are partners, he bought his own boat, and I have my own. So far it is working better for us that way and our relationship is much better than when we were partners.
I was in a partnership for a baot with my brother for many years. I am the one who always anticipated the maintenance and performed the upgrades. My brother was interested in using the boat when it was convenient for him, and ignoring it when he was busy. Since I live a considerable distance from the coast, and my brother lives at the boat, I thought it made sense. He would be there in the event the boat needed attention due to a storm or some other problem. Long story made short, I don't believe that two boaters ever share exactly the same level of interest in all aspects of boat ownership. When you think about it, the whole idea of partership comes about because both parties are trying to get away without full responsibility for the boat. expectations should be discussed thouroughly and a written agreement should be formulated. That is probably what makes time share ownership work. Having a company take responsibility for care of the boat, scheduling of use, and acting as the referee for disputes. I have thought about trying a time share, but the unhappy experience with my brother has me thinking twice about it. My brother and I no longer are partners, he bought his own boat, and I have my own. So far it is working better for us that way and our relationship is much better than when we were partners.
works well with racing boats
I've seen partnerships work well with racing boats. Both parties have the same interets and goals. Upgrading equiptment is not a problem as both owners want to win. However, I would not enter into a partnership on a cruising boat. Too many issues about sharing time IMHO.
I've seen partnerships work well with racing boats. Both parties have the same interets and goals. Upgrading equiptment is not a problem as both owners want to win. However, I would not enter into a partnership on a cruising boat. Too many issues about sharing time IMHO.
All this talk about maintenance makes me laugh
I have a good friend who sails with me on a reasonably regular basis. We have never contemplated a partnership, and decided our friendship worked fine, he comes sailing, on my boat. Whenever he asked if he could do something that entailed maintenance, my reply was "You're welcome to come down and thoroughly wash the boat anytime you'd like, but there's just no room for two people to get into some of the spaces that require a contortionist to do maintenance." Now, maybe I have a different meaning for maintenance, but I'm thinking here stuffing box, exhaust riser, muffler, hose clamps, heat exchanger. There is just no room for more than one person, and I get the tools I need assembled ahead of time. What's maintenance mean to you and how many people? BTW we're in the water year round, so helping paint the bottom and wax the hull I fully understand (he did help me during our last haulout...
)
I have a good friend who sails with me on a reasonably regular basis. We have never contemplated a partnership, and decided our friendship worked fine, he comes sailing, on my boat. Whenever he asked if he could do something that entailed maintenance, my reply was "You're welcome to come down and thoroughly wash the boat anytime you'd like, but there's just no room for two people to get into some of the spaces that require a contortionist to do maintenance." Now, maybe I have a different meaning for maintenance, but I'm thinking here stuffing box, exhaust riser, muffler, hose clamps, heat exchanger. There is just no room for more than one person, and I get the tools I need assembled ahead of time. What's maintenance mean to you and how many people? BTW we're in the water year round, so helping paint the bottom and wax the hull I fully understand (he did help me during our last haulout...
)
Fractional sailing not exactly a partnership
There are many Fractional sailing groups around for the occaisional casual sailor or those who want a third party administrator to manage a specific groups use. This certainly acts as an insulator when(not if) problems arise. We have a very well managed fractional group near us that is very tempting when/if I get tired of all the details(dockage/storms/maintenance/resale/etc) or have to focus on work more intensely. They aren't geared for the cruising guys and it seems a partnership would be cumbersome for the high use type sailors. The put off for us has been hauling all my personal weekend/daysailing gear on/off with each use. Not every sailor has the same needs, intensity or financial stamina so partnerships are difficult but many work fine. Airplane groups and boats come to mind. Of course there are horror stories of incompatability so choosing carefully and having a contract seems prudent. Michael
There are many Fractional sailing groups around for the occaisional casual sailor or those who want a third party administrator to manage a specific groups use. This certainly acts as an insulator when(not if) problems arise. We have a very well managed fractional group near us that is very tempting when/if I get tired of all the details(dockage/storms/maintenance/resale/etc) or have to focus on work more intensely. They aren't geared for the cruising guys and it seems a partnership would be cumbersome for the high use type sailors. The put off for us has been hauling all my personal weekend/daysailing gear on/off with each use. Not every sailor has the same needs, intensity or financial stamina so partnerships are difficult but many work fine. Airplane groups and boats come to mind. Of course there are horror stories of incompatability so choosing carefully and having a contract seems prudent. Michael
Partnership
There is no way I would ever consider a partnership on a boat. For me it just wouldn't work, as I sail often and far lots of the time. The easiest and best way to reduce costs is to learn to do it yourself. There is nothing on a boat that is so complicated the average person can't fix it. Labor rates in my area are somewhere around 80 bucks and hour, and we are more than likely below the nat'l average. I have also learned that lots of the so called mechanics don't know squat either. Get the books and tools necessary, and teach yourself to do it. First time you or off in some isolated area and something goes wrong, you will be glad you did.
There is no way I would ever consider a partnership on a boat. For me it just wouldn't work, as I sail often and far lots of the time. The easiest and best way to reduce costs is to learn to do it yourself. There is nothing on a boat that is so complicated the average person can't fix it. Labor rates in my area are somewhere around 80 bucks and hour, and we are more than likely below the nat'l average. I have also learned that lots of the so called mechanics don't know squat either. Get the books and tools necessary, and teach yourself to do it. First time you or off in some isolated area and something goes wrong, you will be glad you did.
It works ... if you work at it.
I first got into sailing with a partner who I had met at work and then shared an apartment with. We taught ourselves to sail, and then as time went on I used the boat more than he did. After a couple of years, he was getting married and wanted to sell. Sadly, I couldn't come up with enough to buy him out, which I really wanted to do, so we sold the boat. But it was a fun time. Today I own my own Islander Bahama 28, and I am also equal partners with my "partner-in-life" in a Cal 39-2. Our partnership works well (in every way), although I admit that I've deferred to her in putting a bit more into upgrades than I would have done if I'd been sole owner.
I first got into sailing with a partner who I had met at work and then shared an apartment with. We taught ourselves to sail, and then as time went on I used the boat more than he did. After a couple of years, he was getting married and wanted to sell. Sadly, I couldn't come up with enough to buy him out, which I really wanted to do, so we sold the boat. But it was a fun time. Today I own my own Islander Bahama 28, and I am also equal partners with my "partner-in-life" in a Cal 39-2. Our partnership works well (in every way), although I admit that I've deferred to her in putting a bit more into upgrades than I would have done if I'd been sole owner.
I Have Thought About it...
But not for very long. I would want the boat on Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, and any weekend that I would want to sail. To me it's about the boat's availability... much the same with a Timeshare condo. When I want to use it, I want to be able to pack up an go. I know we could probably own a newer/larger/nicer boat, but it just wouldn't be the same. At least for me anyway.
But not for very long. I would want the boat on Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, and any weekend that I would want to sail. To me it's about the boat's availability... much the same with a Timeshare condo. When I want to use it, I want to be able to pack up an go. I know we could probably own a newer/larger/nicer boat, but it just wouldn't be the same. At least for me anyway.
Boat partnerships
Nice N Easy, you nailed it. Some "marine" specialists are scary. Right after we bought our boat, I realized the inverter relay wouldnt transfer from shore power to batteries. I didnt know much, so I called the local marine electrician. He took the cover off, sniffed around, and told me it wasnt switching over. DUHHHH! So he proceded to force it to switch. Oh by the way shore power was still connected. Pow, a sniff of ozone. The guy just about waisted my boat. I told him to grab his stuff and get the fu^k off before I keelhauled him, but that I would be in touch for damages. Whats that? Will I recommend you? NOT! Right then and there I vowed to learn systems and do it myself if at all possible! If you dont want to refit your boat, dont get an old boat. If you get a new one, you either bought Starbucks at three, or maybe you are in a partnership. The key word typically for those who partner is benjamins, cabbage, greenbacks. Why else would anyone want to share. Perhaps with a family member, but even then not likely. I would think it would strain friendships to the limit. How did that break? Why didnt I know about this before we flew in for OUR week of sailing? Owning a sailboat is more than just filling it up with wind and shoving off. You have to WANT to own it. But yes you can "contain" expenses with sea savy. My first mate and I truly love to tinker and maintain. Its not as fun as sailing, but we take great pride in a job well done. Hey honey come here and check out the new gas tank! Looks great huh, and it fits perfectly, and look.. twice as thick as the old one. What? No I didnt label the lines. Even a caveman could hook them back up correctly. Thats why I know how to bleed my trusty Yanmar.... in detail. Cheers Rick
Nice N Easy, you nailed it. Some "marine" specialists are scary. Right after we bought our boat, I realized the inverter relay wouldnt transfer from shore power to batteries. I didnt know much, so I called the local marine electrician. He took the cover off, sniffed around, and told me it wasnt switching over. DUHHHH! So he proceded to force it to switch. Oh by the way shore power was still connected. Pow, a sniff of ozone. The guy just about waisted my boat. I told him to grab his stuff and get the fu^k off before I keelhauled him, but that I would be in touch for damages. Whats that? Will I recommend you? NOT! Right then and there I vowed to learn systems and do it myself if at all possible! If you dont want to refit your boat, dont get an old boat. If you get a new one, you either bought Starbucks at three, or maybe you are in a partnership. The key word typically for those who partner is benjamins, cabbage, greenbacks. Why else would anyone want to share. Perhaps with a family member, but even then not likely. I would think it would strain friendships to the limit. How did that break? Why didnt I know about this before we flew in for OUR week of sailing? Owning a sailboat is more than just filling it up with wind and shoving off. You have to WANT to own it. But yes you can "contain" expenses with sea savy. My first mate and I truly love to tinker and maintain. Its not as fun as sailing, but we take great pride in a job well done. Hey honey come here and check out the new gas tank! Looks great huh, and it fits perfectly, and look.. twice as thick as the old one. What? No I didnt label the lines. Even a caveman could hook them back up correctly. Thats why I know how to bleed my trusty Yanmar.... in detail. Cheers Rick
A Boataminium that works
When a friend was too busy to maintain and sail his O'Day 22, five of us formed a "Boataminium" by agreeing to pay the slip fee ($1500) and to clean, repair and maintain the boat. We divided the week into five days of sailing and the owner passed on the weekend days. That way each of the four of us had a weekend day everyother weekend and a day and evening of sailing once a week. We threw in $5 each for gas for the OB for the year and the partnership worked fine. The owner paid for any capital items, registration and insurance. After four years, the owner sold the boat. Then we moved on to a Catalina 25 with the owner also keeping title. You have to have good guys that are responsible to each other keeping the boat clean. Also, a phone call to check on intended usage can get the boat on a day not assigned to you. This year will be the sixth year of our Boataminium.
When a friend was too busy to maintain and sail his O'Day 22, five of us formed a "Boataminium" by agreeing to pay the slip fee ($1500) and to clean, repair and maintain the boat. We divided the week into five days of sailing and the owner passed on the weekend days. That way each of the four of us had a weekend day everyother weekend and a day and evening of sailing once a week. We threw in $5 each for gas for the OB for the year and the partnership worked fine. The owner paid for any capital items, registration and insurance. After four years, the owner sold the boat. Then we moved on to a Catalina 25 with the owner also keeping title. You have to have good guys that are responsible to each other keeping the boat clean. Also, a phone call to check on intended usage can get the boat on a day not assigned to you. This year will be the sixth year of our Boataminium.
I agree with Clownpilot
I have to agree with Clownpilot, my boat is a very important part of my life. The thought of someone else touching her would be like sharing my wife, with a partner. No thanks. My boat is part of my identity, I'm obsessive about her and think about her everynight before I go to sleep. I'm sure Freud would have something to say about that, but thats the way it is. Sharing would disconnect me emotionally in ways that would make me a poor boat owner. I'm sure this works for some but not for me.
I have to agree with Clownpilot, my boat is a very important part of my life. The thought of someone else touching her would be like sharing my wife, with a partner. No thanks. My boat is part of my identity, I'm obsessive about her and think about her everynight before I go to sleep. I'm sure Freud would have something to say about that, but thats the way it is. Sharing would disconnect me emotionally in ways that would make me a poor boat owner. I'm sure this works for some but not for me.
Best response yet and great advice for new sailor
Don't know what happened but I was minding my own business and suddenly I've fallen in love with sailboats and determined to become a sailor, learn all I can about sailing, and eventually purchase one. Hence my interest in this thread. Knowning human nature as I do I was leaning towards owner-ship but this reply definitely capped it. I found it interesting too that some of the sailors compared their attitude towards their boat similar to that towards their women. Man, the lure of the sea must be quite strong. I intend to get me mine own boat to have adventures on. Thannnnnk you.
Don't know what happened but I was minding my own business and suddenly I've fallen in love with sailboats and determined to become a sailor, learn all I can about sailing, and eventually purchase one. Hence my interest in this thread. Knowning human nature as I do I was leaning towards owner-ship but this reply definitely capped it. I found it interesting too that some of the sailors compared their attitude towards their boat similar to that towards their women. Man, the lure of the sea must be quite strong. I intend to get me mine own boat to have adventures on. Thannnnnk you.
- Status