How to work with boat broker in a distant town

[TN]

We are considering purchasing a type of boat that rarely appears on the market in our area, so we would likely be buying a boat from another state. Do you all recommend working directly with the listing broker, or would you recommend that I use a buyer's broker to work with the listing brokerage? If you have done this before, how did it pan out for you?

 

[ITMaster]

My Perspective

On this topic would be very similar to conducting a real estate transaction that involves the use of a broker.
A realtor is motivated by commission, like all agents and brokers. Generally, the listing agent, being commission motivated and driven is the agent for the seller. Obviously, a broker that represents the buyer has a different motivation.

I would figure that the purchase of a boat that involves the use of a broker, differs very little.

Good Luck what ever you do.

 

[higgs]

Brokers

i question if a buyer's broker is much different than a seller's broker. Both have the same goal- to get you to buy a boat. Both are paid on commission, so the more you pay, the more they make. Let's face it, when it comes to representation, they are really representing themselves. This is not say that this cannot be ethically done, and I think it often is, but a broker, like all of us, is most interested in making a living.

 

[BobM]

Surveyor

I'd find the boat, then find a local surveyor who will perform a brief pre-purchase survey. Something with a lot of photos and some verbiage to give you an impression of the overall condition without going into a full blown survey. Many surveyors will do such work on an hourly basis.

In my experience, brokers aren't nearly as knowledgeable as surveyors. As the surveyor would get paid the same no matter what, you would get a fair opinion of the boat. There is no substitute for seeing at least one of these make/model boats in person yourself. If you haven't done so yet, I'd make that top priority.

 

[BrianW]

Surveyor

The real estate comparison doesn't parallel with boat purchasing. I would suggest not using that as a model. In real estate, the Buyers Agent simply is a real estate agent who has signed a piece of paper that says he/she is acting in your best interest, not the sellers. Then, that Buyers Agent shows you the houses on the market. You have already found the boat your interested in. An independent surveyor is needed regardless of who shows you the boat for sale. That qualified surveyor is YOUR protection and your expert in determining the condition of that boat. Then, based on the surveyors info, you can determine the value of the boat. A boat buyers broker (if there is such a thing) represents the buyer for the TRANSACTION, not the condition of the boat. Stick with the surveyor for determining if the boat you are interested in is a good deal. BrianW

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

I have done this before

I lived in south Texas and was interested in a boat in central Florida, approx 1,200 miles away. When we went to Fl. to look at the boat, it was exactly as described over the phone buy the listing broker, right down the the smallest scrapes and dings. So, now I had a certain amount of confidence in the brokers opinions and integrity. I asked him to recommend a few surveyors to me and he did. The first one I called seemed like a knowledgeable enough person so we went with him. Because of the distance and my work schedule, the broker worked directly with me to schedule the survey and the closing. All went very well.
If you involve a second broker, not only will that ad confusion to the issue, but with a reduced commission, the original broker will lose a certain amount of ambition.
I have always been lucky with brokers, others have not. I personally would not involve a buyers broker. When I was looking for a boat, lots of brokers volunteered to be my purchasing broker, but I told them all in a nice way that I was not interested. All they would do is look at the same internet I am looking at to find a boat. On the downside, all decisions would have to be coordinated between both brokers and that can be catastrophic in itself.

Good luck in whatever you decide. I hope this info will help you make a decision in either direction.

Tony B

 

[Pete]

here is my 2 cents worth

Work with a reputable broker,explain all you concerns, get detailed pictures etc etc. Then GO SEE the boat in person. The listing broker should be fine to work with unless he or she seams unwilling to work with you. In that case pass on the boat. UNLESS you think you must absolutely have that particular boat then hire a surveyor to go and do a general inspection (but not a survey) and take pictures etc. Get surveyor to give you a opinion, then proceed with a personal visit. Hire the same surveyor who did you initial inspection to do a survey. Sure it will cost a little more but will be a lot cheaper then you traveling all over he county looking at boats that looked good in an ad but not in person. One thing to remember in any transaction of this type is "BUYER BEWARE" Know what you are getting be fore you put a deposit down. Most surveyors will act as a buyers agent to take pictures and general preview inspection of a boat. Under no circumstance would I purchase it with out a personal inspection no matter how good anyone says it is.

 

[TN]

Thanks for the perspectives

Thanks for the perspectives. Keep 'em coming!

 

[John]

My experience again

I've mentioned this before, but I'd add that no matter how inexperienced one is, don't entirely count on the surveyor to find all problems. I have experience with two surveyors. One was absolutely incompetent or, at best, in too much of a hurry to do a decent job. He missed things that had I just opened up some panels I'd have found, despite my having been as green as grass at that time. (A cable that was clearly rotted out.) The other surveyor impressed me as being very competent and very thorough. He missed one or two things also. Again, had I made a really thorough inspection, I'd have seen it. This surveyor was definitely worth the money I paid him, but still,what I learned was that even if the surveyor is very good and very thorough, remember that two heads (and four eyes) are better than one (or two)!

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Curious ?, ...Why a buyers broker?

I'm just curious, why would anyone want a buyers broker? What purpose do they serve other than locating a boat for you?
I can see lots of downsides to this but no positives.
So, please inform me.
Thanks
Tony B

 

[capnron314]

My 2 cents

As I broker and dealer in the State of Florida , and having bought more boats than most folks over a thirty year period, I can truthfully say that I have no problem in sending a deposit to a Florida broker as we are all licensed and bonded. As for long distance , it makes even more sense to negotiate BEFORE making a trip , go to contract "subject to" , and then go there , knowing in advance what it will take to buy the boat. Hint : Don't try this with an individual , only thru a licensed , bonded broker. Cap'n Ron , Miami

 

[Jim]

You know you'll have to move the boat after you buy it.

I had done it. Be prepare to spend time and money going up there to make this deal happen!

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Cap't Ron and Jim

Cap't Ron: you said "it makes even more sense to negotiate BEFORE making a trip , go to contract "subject to" , and then go there"....That is exactly what I did. It makes so much sense, I cant comment further on that issue. Also " Don't try this with an individual", I cant believe someone would be that stupid, but I know some have done it and then the deal fell through and they never did get their deposit back.


Jim, I have done that too and you are sooooooo right on. I had made 4 2500 mile round trips before we actually sailed the boat home.

Trip #1: Travel to see the boat and make sure all was as stated and take a test drive. Boat was pre-bargained for over the phone. Once all looked good, we gave a deposit with final sale pending a survey.
Trip #2: Closing on the boat and clean it up.
Trip #3: Went down again, this time I brought the big gun with me - NiceN Easy.
We went through all systems made a few repairs and sailed her again.
Trip #4: Final trip. Picked up Bill in Vancleave, Ms.,he flew in from St. Louis. Picked up NiceNEasy in Mobile, drove to Florida, did shopping for food and Rum. Picked up Herb Parsons, he flew in from Dallas area. The food and rum bill alone was over $500. Dont ever ask a gourmet cook to do the shopping with a blank check. Not a good idea, LOL.
Diesel fuel for boat...$360
Over 10,000 miles on vehicle plus gas. Gas was almost $3/gal at the time.
Many nights in Motel and eating out.
Lots of minor repairs that normally could have waited, but for a long trip we replaced a lot of stuff including 4 batteries.

This can be a very expensive ordeal.
Was it worth it? To me the answer is a definite YES. But, it may not be to you. This is something to just think about.

Tony B

 

[TN]

Buying out of town - summary

So, is this what I'm hearing is the recommended practice?

Step 1: Find boat on your own on yachtworld.com. Skip the buyer's agent as they have little to add to this particular process.

Step 2: Make offer to listing broker; offer is contingent on a brief look-see by a surveyor, inspection by buyer, complete survey, and sea trial.

Step 3: Hire a surveyor to go look at the boat and give a brief report.

Step 4: If the look-see is positive, travel to the boat to view it, conduct a complete survey with the surveyor, and do a sea trial.

Step 5: Finalize deal or decline it.


How do you handle cases if the deal is done where boats are pulled from the water during the winter? We're looking in the NE and Great Lakes primarily. Do you generally wait for spring or just skip the sea trial in the hopes of a winter deal?

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

TN

I think you have more steps in there than necessary. With all of the survey fees, one could go broke.
If I could have gotten a month off, I would only have made the one original trip.
I took lots of precautions before embarking on a 800 + K mile trip across the Gulf of Mexico. There were times we were far enough out that if anything went really wrong, rescue may not have been possible.
I think that if one is to take that long of a trip, they should be prepared. Other lives are at stake also.

On another note, we got to visit friends and family in Ms on both legs of our road trips.
If you were to balance sailing the boat yourself vs. having it packed and trucked, the price would be about the same.
Obviously from the Great Lakes to Wa. it would be trucked over land.
Your steps would be simple.
1) Bargain down your best price over the phone, pending a physical inspection, and survey.
2) Line up a surveyor prior to your trip. A good surveyor is not always available at a moments notice.
3) Travel to Great Lakes anyway you want to. Look over the boat yourself to make sure you dont see an obvious 'deal-killer' and save the cost of a surveyor. If all looks OK give a 'binder'.
4) Have survey performed
5) If all goes well, complete the closing.
6) Have preparations made to pack and ship your boat to your home port marina.
7) Go home.

All done in one short trip.

Tony B

 

[TN]

thanks for the info

The adventure should be fun!

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

It will be fun....

and something you wont ever forget. With all of the driving and coordinating and scheduling, there was never a point at which it wasn't an adventure and fun.
My adventure was about 6 months after Hurricane Katrina. We had previously lived in Slidell, La. and Biloxi, Ms. (Not very far apart).
After Katrina, we migrated to south Texas in our RV. So, that traveling of 1200 miles each way was actually fun. Approximately 1/2 way was Slidell and Biloxi. We visited with friends we had not seen since the storm and the admiral also has family just outside of Biloxi. We also acted like tourists when in Florida.
At the time, I was working 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off and I never minded driving.
Right after the purchase, the admirals 90 year old mother and 67 year old sister had taken ill at the same time and she had to take care of them. Soooooooooo, i rounded up a crew. Bill was a good friend of mine from Biloxi that had sold his last boat a few years earlier due to age and health and always wanted to make 'one more trip. He didnt know any of the other crew, which was Herb and NiceNEasy. Now Herb and Phillip (NiceNEasy) communicated on this forum but never actually met in person. So we ended up with a crew in which no one knew anyone else but myself. We had a ball.....11 days across the Gulf.
I wish you the good fortune of having as much fun and adventure as we did.


Tony B

 

[Pete]

TN-- Winter sea trials ???

Now you opened a can of worms ! ! Depending on time of winter and location will determine what sea trial is practical. In my humble opinion I would insist on a full sea trial. Re winterizing engine is small price to pay and unless you were going to skip a survey (NOT recommended) you will still have the haul out cost. A good broker can and will work this out either with a sea trial(conditions allowing) or a hold back until sea trial cane be done or just holding the boat on a deposit until sea rial can be performed. The long and short is it can be worked out just you need to insist it be worked out. I know along the NE coast sea trials can be done pretty much year round. Great Lakes area is a whole new ball game depending on time of winter and weather. Doing a "abbreviated" sea trial is an option depending on how you feel about the boat and condition,age etc. etc. This issue kind of falls in a gray area that you as purchaser need to decide for yourself, But I know I would do a sea trial ! Good Luck with your boat search ! !