How to unfreeze a diesel

KD3PC · Aug 8, 2013

IF you are sure that the water is/was limited to the lower end and that is where it is locked up, you may be able to over fill the pan with a mix of oil/kerosene or if you can find it, enough marvel mystery oil to do so.

Let it sit for a week or so, each day try rotating the crankshaft, by hand an inch or two each way back and forth...don't force it. IF it loosens, then slowly move it further and further, the goal here is to change the amount of bearing surface exposed to the oil solution. Keep going until you can rotate the crankshaft by hand.

If this does not free up the engine, then you need to start taking some things apart....however injectors and injector pump would be the last to tinker with in my opinion as the chances of either causing the lock up are about nil

Hammer is not an approved tool for freeing up the motor until you know, for sure, what is locked up. Bad as it is, hammer can make it worse.

Be careful turning the motor by hand, in case it wants to start (not likely given the information)

In the event that you get water in the engine again, make sure to "pickle" the engine as soon as possible, even if you do not have time to check it out, or are forced to assume the worst. Pickle basically is overfilling the engine with oil or lubricant of your choice, as well as any other areas of the engine you can get to.

Best of luck

Sailvayu · Aug 8, 2013

If water got into the crankcase enough to cause the engine to seize then I think it may be time to call your insurance as you will need a rebuild. Yes you might be able to free it up but at this point the water has damaged the bearings and surfaces. You only need a little pitting to cause bearing failure. maybe not right away but sooner or later. Get the insurance money to fix it right now. If you do not have insurance I would still want to open the lower end you may need new bearings and possibly to polish or turn the journals. Sorry wish I could have better things to say.

Oh and are you sure the crank is locked or are you just using the starter motor. If it is the starter it is no big deal just get that rebuilt. Try turn the crank with a wrench that will let you know

woodster · Aug 8, 2013

what kind of engine is it .....

regards

woody

Fred Villiard · Aug 8, 2013

Sail, If it were mine, I would remove the injectors and spray a full can of PB Blaster in each cylinder, then forget it for a week.

Also if water got into the pan the level on the dipstick would be higher, if it is drain the oil and get a gallon or two of wd40, fill the crankcase untill it starts to run out somewhere. The wd40 will displace the water, just leave things soak for a week or two, do not be in a hurry.

After things have soaked use a fairly long breaker bar 18" or so, the vise grips will not give you enough leverage, try rocking the crank back and forth. If you have the wd40 in the crankcase DO NOT TURN THE CRANK MORE THAN 1 OR 2 TURNS before draining the crankcase, refill it and change filter with the proper amount of oil.

When doing this leave the injectors out, and have a catch pan and absorbant pads because you'll have a mess otherwise.

After things have been loosened up by hand, crank it with the started for 20 or 30 seconds, to get the excess PB out of the cylinders.

Put the injectors back in, bleed them and the engine should run.

I used this method on probally a dozen or so engines both diesel and gas with very good luck. most likely what has your engine locked is some surface rust on the cylinders, that's the most common.

Good Luck

Fred Villiard

Manureva · Aug 8, 2013

Start by turning the engine by hand with the decompresion lever engaged.... It migth not be frozen at all but water locked

Merlin Clark · Aug 8, 2013

The starter is probably hosed and doubt you'll get enough leverage to overcome the compression with vice grips.
From your initial description, first thing I'd check is the starter.

alexco38 · Aug 9, 2013

Battery under water?

jviss · Aug 9, 2013

I find this thread interesting, because of all of the speculation and assumption as to what's wrong. Please let me to supply some more!

0. Don't hit anything with a hammer, or anything else.

1. If the water level in the boat was up to the pan, and the oil was previously not leaking out on its own, then water can't leak in.

Question: how high on the motor did the rain water level get? Did you check the crankcase oil level, and oil appearance? Too high and milky is bad.

2. You probably can't turn a diesel with a pair of vice grips on the end of the crank. I haven't tried, but I'm pretty certain it would be nearly impossible, and you will damage the end of the crank, too.

3. Was the starter underwater? It might "try," but not succeed, if it is water-logged.

4. What condition is the starting battery in? It might appear O.K., i.e., terminal voltage, but be weak or nearly dead.

Question: have you charged the battery, or tested it, or replaced it? You can sort-of test it by noting the voltage when sitting, and then when you engage the starter. A big drop means the battery or the starter or both are bad.

5. Is there a compression relief feature on this motor? If so, you might engage that and try turning the motor with a proper motor turner - like a large wrench with a long handle (3'). If no compression relief, are there glow plugs? They are much, much easier to remove to relieve compression than the injectors. Removing injectors, and getting them back in and the engine running, is a big job (and requires new copper crush washers, and maybe some replacement fuel return seals, too, then bleeding).

RichH · Aug 9, 2013

If and only IF the piston rings are rusted tight in the piston ring grooves and the rings are rusted to the cylinder walls ... and its not the starter 'locked'.

1. attempt to turn the crankshaft with a socket and a long breaker bar applied to the nose of the crankshaft ... do not (gorilla) FORCE the crankshaft but simply rock the socket/breaker bar back and forth to assay for 'freeness' of the piston. If you force the crankshaft if the piston rings are 'frozen' you will surely break the rings.

2. Remove the injectors and spray PB-Blaster into the combustion chamber also attempting to spray onto any valve stem that is 'open'. Let soak. Repeat in a few days, let soak. While soaking remove the valve cover and 'by hand' depress each valve to verify that valve stems are not rusted/stuck .... if so, apply PB blaster to the stem and 'hand work' them until free.

3. with the compression release open, attempt to *gently* 'rock the crankshaft back and forth, without applying 'much' force. Keep applying PBBlaster (and/or Marvel Mystery Oil -MMO) rocking and soaking until the crankshaft is free .... may take some time, be PATIENT.

4. Once the crankshaft is free (complete 360 rotation without any 'hard spots' of rotation, if 'hard spots' during rotation ... keep turning by hand until almost 'gone'), remove old oil and replace with MMO, let soak a few day after 'spinning the crankshaft BY HAND TO VERIFY that the piston rings are free, then spin the engine with the starter (injectors still removed) --- do this IF AND ONLY IF you can turn the crankshaft without any 'binding'; if not go back and recommence the 'soak' process.
When spinning with the starter, with injectors still removed and the compression release open, etc., verify that valves are not 'sticking' in their valve guides and the valve are traveling their entire distance.

5. Remove HALF the MMO from the crankcase and add HALF regular 'light weight' crankcase oil (5W-30 etc.) Spin the engine with the starter and let soak.

6. Reinstall the injectors. Take all precautions in case you have a 'runaway' engine: material to quickly stuff into the air intake, clear pathway to the compression release and an assistant standing by on the fuel tank valve. Attempt to start the engine. Run ONLY at idle speed and only until the engine is WARM. Shut down and 'let soak' for a day or so.

7. Run engine in *very slowly* increasing increments of rpm until you can reach HALF SPEED, run until engine is warm .... all at NO LOAD on the engine (trans. in neutral). Let soak. This step will repolish the cylinder walls, piston ring grooves, rings and valve stems, etc.

8. Run engine as normally after that. But with 1/4 MMO and 3/4 'regular' oil in the crankcase for at least ~25-50 hours; 'regular oil' after 50 hours. During the 'first' 25 hours and with the transmission in forward, occasionally *quickly* run the engine up to full rpm and *very quickly* back to idle (without going to 'neutral') .... this will help 're-seat' the piston rings.

This method can be used on any 'aged' engines that are showing 'compression loss' or 'pressure leak testing' showing excessive combustion 'blow by' into the crankcase. Some times the 'restoration' of compression and ring sealing is 'astounding' when all the CRAP accumulated behind and in the piston rig grooves is removed thus freeing up the piston rings. This is a standard method of starting 'old' engines from salvage yards, etc.

The key here is PATIENCE, do NOT FORCE the crankshaft, and have a clear exit to escape to safety in the rare case that if the engine does 'runaway' and the typical methods of blocking the air intake or opening the compression release, or cutting off the fuel supply DOES NOT WORK.

Bill Roosa · Aug 9, 2013

Guys!!!!
lets not go overboard with the boat out of the water!
put the trany in neutral and try to hand crank the motor. If it turns at all it is not seized (ie metal has rusted to metal) and you need to look further as to why it will not crank. Note that if it is hydro locked with water in the cylinders you will still be able to hand crank it SLOWLY and force the water past the rings. Once clear you will know as it will crank much more easily.

jviss · Aug 9, 2013

Bill Roosa said:
hand crank it SLOWLY and force the water past the rings.

What???

KD3PC · Aug 9, 2013

from the pics, it appears the water level is not an issue in the locking up of the engine.

That MAY be good news, and I still stand by my process of overfilling the engine with marvel mystery and a good motor oil and slowly trying to turn the crank by hand.

It may be rings rusted to cylinders and I would be thinking of a plan to address that (ala RichH) although pulling injectors would be last on my list.

YMMV, but it appears that the gasket/pan may have prevented water getting in to the lower end.

Keep us posted, but stay away from hammering, if at all possible.

kloudie1 · Aug 9, 2013

Yup.. I think that the engine may not be frozen too.. but the transmission may be..although if the seals are good, I doubt that too.. Pull the tranny dipstick and look for overfilling.. If it is overfull, water may have gotten in. Drain and refill with correct stuff. You may have some bad connections as a result of the submersion.. check the grounds as well as the hots.. Check/clean/tighten the battery posts.. starter terminals, and the main battery switch..

Mark Maulden · Aug 9, 2013

Agree with Kloudie. 4 mo. time should not "freeze" an engine. Verify all fluids and verify what kloudie says. From your pix, I might pull the starter and put it on the bench if it was wet. BTW, you can pull the injectors in a matter of minutes on this engine. They are held in via a top clamp over two studs. Take the nuts off, remove clamp, remove fuel lines. If you're really concerned with freezing I'd do this if there are no decomp levers. You need no new compression washers for installation. You can have the heads off in less than 2 hrs......easy engine to work on. But, from what I'm reading, I don't think it's as bad as you might think.

How to unfreeze a diesel

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