How to pump out when there isn't a station?

[Rick Macdonald]

I'm looking at a boat (2000 Hunter 270) that as far as we can tell has only a deck cap access for pumping out the holding tank. Pump-out stations are few and far between in Northern BC waters, where dumping is legal.

Searching the web, I found a hand pump but I'm not sure if this is the right thing to use. Its manual doesn't give any practical information.

http://www.whalepumps.com/marine/product_list/12/68/

Installing Y-values, a through hull and an electric pump is an obvious solution, but is there an option for pump-it-overboard-yourself?

 

[Don Crowther]

Rick

That whalepump looks like what's installed in my boat. It's mounted under the V-berth right beside my tank. Works well only had to use it once though.
Cheers
Don

 

[Stu Jackson]

There are two design "concepts"

with holding tank systems.

Rick,

The one "preferred" by West Marine, and shown in their WM Advisor section (http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...dvisor/10001/-1/10001/Heads-Holding-Tanks.htm), has the waste going from the head to the holding tank and then to either the pump out or an overboard pump and out. This requires that ALL of the waste ALWAYS has to go through the holding tank.

The OTHER concept is to place the Y valve between the head and the holding tank. Offshore and legal? Pump it directly overboard. In protected waters, put it in the holding tank and pump out either at the pumpout station or when you're legal offshore again.

I prefer and have the second SYSTEM design. Makes no sense to me to run all waste through the holding tank all the time.

As far as implements to move the waste from the holding tank to an overboard through hull, a hand pump or electric, as you say are the two choices. The electric pump will take lots less space, because with a hand pump you'll need to include the space for the pump handle.

Your boat, your choice.

 

[Guest]

Pump

Hi Rick, looks right to me. Our 1989 H28 had a similar arrangement for pumping overboard. The manual pump was located in the starboard lazarette locker close to the six gallon holding tank. Never used it since we have so many stations here and we were never out that long. I do not know whether it was installed by the PO or Hunter.

Our current boat has an electric macerator pump for overboard discharge. It works quite well and have used it where legal to do so. It all depends upon your cruising plans, how long you plan on being out at a given time, etc. IMHO it would be wise to install one on your boat to avoid the unpleasant experience of not having one, especially female guests/crew.

I've seen other boats with a wye valve to divert sewage overboard when the holding tank fills. This alternative does not require a pump. I prefer the pump out method; either way works.

Terry Cox

 

[Rick Macdonald]

As far as implements to move the waste from the holding tank to an overboard through hull, a hand pump or electric, as you say are the two choices. The electric pump will take lots less space, because with a hand pump you'll need to include the space for the pump handle.

If I understand correctly, I believe all the replies so far are talking about installing a through hull. I'm wondering if there is a hand or 12V pump that will suck the holding tank up through the same deck fitting as the pump-out stations use, without changing any plumbing. The idea would be to dangle a hose into the water. I can't imagine how one would clean the parts or store the gear! I'm just wondering if there is such an option. I thought I'd ask rather than just assume nobody would ever do this therefore the equipment doesn't even exist!

 

[Ed Schenck]

The equipment is available because I have used it. The difference is that it was a DIY deal that was mounted on a wagon. And it included a tank instead of pumping it into the water(illegal). Then I had to drag it to a big pipe that led to a septic system. If I had to guess it was nothing more than an electric motor and a whale gusher pump with a couple of lengths of hose.

Only a little better than having to sail fifteen miles to a pumpout. Which is what I now have to do.

 

[Rick D]

One expensive option

http://www.boatdepot.com/productdetails.aspx?part=P93-2402&ref=base

 

[Manny]

not very pleasant and would require a couple of trips to a "dumping" station but maybe use a shop-vac?
What do your dock neighbors do?

 

[Rick Macdonald]

not very pleasant and would require a couple of trips to a "dumping" station but maybe use a shop-vac?
What do your dock neighbors do?

With the shoal keel, the H270 (26 foot) is more like a trailerable. So, there are no dock neighbors! The issue is emptying the holding tank when traveling far from civilization, and away from anchorages. No electricity, and no storage for a shop-vac or large caddy!

I've never seen a boat around here without Y-valves and direct discharge through the hull. I don't know the exact history of the boat but I suspect it was originally in a completely no-dump zone (in the Eastern US and/or Great Lakes somewhere).

The caddy that RickD posted is getting close. My idea would be to have the same connectors and hoses, but without the caddy! A pump with a connector for the deck fitting on one end, and a discharge tube over the side reaching to the water. After the deed is done, maybe the whole thing could be dunked overboard and swished and stored in a bucket?

I suspect that plumbing work or the addition of a porta-potti may well be in order but as I said, we're checking for options!

 

[ed farland]

head pump

A hand diaphram pump - whale - will work. That is what was originally on my H34 ad it would pump out from the deck fitting. You would only have to use a plastic pipe fitting to screw into the deck fitting, then an adapter to connect to the pump.

 

[Rick Macdonald]

Re: head pump

Ed, thanks for that. Is it realistic to think one could rinse the pipes and pump well enough to store them aboard?

 

[kloudie1]

Pump Out

The main problem that I see with the above deck option is that you'd be really visible and it would be quite obvious what you are up to.. And it would be a challenge while underway.. Bite the bullet and install a proper thru-hull. My boat came with the system of going to the holding tank only and a manual pump out through a through hull or emptying by deck pump out at a station. I bought a "y" valve many years ago and have never installed it because the system as installed works well. My pump is a Whale Gusher Urchin. The only problem that I have is that the outlet valve looks up. The calcium chips and flakes from the tank get pumped through OK but when they are in the vertical section of the anti-syphon loop, they can drop back down in to the discharge valve and slowly jam it closed by bearing on the lips. part of my routine is to clean it every spring and it works through the year. I haven't figured a good way to get teh vlaves horizontal.. There is not much space to play in.

 

[Jalepeno]

Hi, my CAL 2-25 boat came with a plumbing abortion of two 1½” through-hulls with ball valves and one deck pump out fitting when I bought her a couple of years ago. One of the through-hulls had a vented loop to dump directly from the head and the other had a Y-valve to use a leaking diaphragm hand-pump to empty the holding tank or use the deck fitting (if you can find a pump-out station on our coast). The hoses were “bad” and the “vintage” head did not work properly. I upgraded / replaced all of the components including the hoses, head and the through-hull ball valves, everything except the holding tank and the through-hulls.


This is what I did last year:

- ¾” inlet hose (Shields #148) with vented loop from the inlet through-hull ball valve to the manual Jabsco head.
- ¾” vent hose (Shields #148) from the holding tank to the vent.
- 1½” head outlet hose (Domestic OdorSafe) directly to the 57L (16USG) plastic holding tank under the V-berth. I added a “Tank Watch I” high level switch to the tank and mounted the LED alarm light directly behind the head.
- 1½” holding tank outlet hose (Shields #148) to Jabsco Y-valve.
- 1½” hose (Shields #148) from the Y-valve to the deck pump-out fitting.
- 1½” hose (Shields #148) from the Y-valve to a Whale Gusher urchin #BP9005 manual diaphragm pump.
- 1½” hose (Shields #148) from the manual pump to the 1½” though-hull ball valve.
- The very expensive OderSafe hose is used only where there the “stuff” might be able to sit in the hose and cheaper hoses are used on all of the other runs as they self draining either to the ocean if dumping or back to the holding tank. A vented loop on the discharge is not required in my installation as the hose basically runs almost vertically from the tank to the Y-valve (mounted behind the head and almost one metre above sea level). The Y-valve is normally in the “deck” position and the discharge through-hull valve is only opened when one is empting the holding tank at sea.
- It takes 200 strokes of the head pump to fill the tank and 55 strokes of the manual pump to empty the holding tank.
- The second, now unused, 1½” through-hull ball valve is in the closed position with the handle removed and a plastic plumbing plug screwed into the outlet.


This setup is perfectly legal for our coast and very practical. You may have other requirements if you sail in Alberta. Please check the Canadian government web site for the regulations and a list of the specific “no-discharge” zones on our west coast.

 

[sailingdog]

The simplest way to setup a holding tank/head system for pumping overboard is to plumb the head output directly into the tank. Then put a diverter valve in the head pumpout hose and have one end go through a manual diaphragm pump and then to a seacock and through-hull, and the other should go to the deck pumpout fitting.

While this doesn't allow you to pump the head directly overboard, any where you could do so, you can dump the holding tank, so there is no real capability lost there. This also allows you to dump the holding tank without the need for a pumpout boat.

In an NDZ, you can wiretie the diverter valve and seacock handles to meet no-discharge compliance.

 

[Rick Macdonald]

Thanks, Jalepeno!

I gather there was another Y-valve in the original setup between the head and the tank to dump directly from the head through the first thru-hull that you mentioned?

The BP9005 pump says it's for bilge water (or oil or diesel fuel). I gather it works for you though.

This 2nd boat would be intended for the coast. We also sail on a lake here in Alberta. If this boat was ever launched on the lake, we wouldn't use the head at all unless we devised a home-made pumpout (into a container, not the lake!). Cleaning the pump & hoses would not be pleasant though.

 

[Phil003]

Try this one on for size. There is a below water through hull on the H270 located in the head used for the sink. All older 26’s and your H23.5 boat have an above the water drain line for the sink. So add plain above water drain line for the sink as in the h26 then plumb a macerator / pump (12 volt) right in the head to the existing sink thru hull simple eh!

 

[Tom Spohn]

Suggest you use Phil's solution for routing plumbing. The pump you suggest should be just fine, but there are others that are also OK. Check clearances on pump location before finally deciding. I like the West Marine solution the best. When waste sits in the tank for awhile it liquifies making it much easier to pump either overboard or to a waste facility. Make sure to double clamp the hoses to the underwater thru-hull as some high pressures can build up. On a previous boat we drained the sink thru an above water thru-hull with no problems. One less hole in the hull to worry about.

 

[Sailm8]

This is really gross but it worked. Our boat a Cal 2-27 has a bladder and not a tank. The only pump out station on our lake was broken and we had been waiting a month for repair parts. I had to do something so I used the manual tube type bilge pump. You know the kind with a length of hose on the end . It worked to just press it hard into intake end in the pump out opening and it it was able to suck the stuff out. I would never do this again or at least use a longer discharge hose but in a pinch it worked.