We are a family of 5 with 3 children under 8 yrs old. My wife and I were power boaters BK (before kids). But the lure of a sail boat is calling us. Maybe it's the change of mind set from destination to the journey that comes with maturity and the desire to spend quality family time. And certainly the cost of fossil fuel to run an express cruiser is a big factor. What I am struggling with is what type of sail boat to buy. What is the right size and brand for a growing family of 5? I have received the pitches from Hunter (ok so far), Catalina (also ok so far), Island Packet (out no headroom I am 6'4") and Beneteua (not out but not in 1st or 2nd based on cost, amenities as a second home on the ocean etc.) Any others I should consider? I am nautically savvy but know nothing about sailing, so ease of sail and ability to do so with a spartan crew at times is a plus. We will also spend considerable overnight time so creature comfort is key. Overall cost to purchase and maintain is a key consideration as are seaworthiness, quality and the ability to keep value and last many years. Any recommendations or insight greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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A fine idea, however
Finding a boat that is right for you requires alot of thought. Not to mention spending time sailing a few of them. You may want to consider adult sailing lessons first. This will allow you the opportunity to decide for yourself what is right for you and your family.
Finding a boat that is right for you requires alot of thought. Not to mention spending time sailing a few of them. You may want to consider adult sailing lessons first. This will allow you the opportunity to decide for yourself what is right for you and your family.
starting point
It doesn't seem to me that a brand name is the place to start. Rather, I'd recommend making choices in terms of basic characteristics. For example: aft cockpit vrs center cockpit; performance vrs comfort; finish vrs value; offshore vrs weekender, et cetera. Throw in your bottom-line considerations, such as adquate headroom, and pretty soon you'll find that the boat chooses you, rather than you it. The one caviat to this advice is to make certain your wife is part of the equation; when I got to the bottom of my list, the choice was a Catalina 400, but when my wife got to the bottom of hers, it was a Hunter 410. Guess which one we bought....
It doesn't seem to me that a brand name is the place to start. Rather, I'd recommend making choices in terms of basic characteristics. For example: aft cockpit vrs center cockpit; performance vrs comfort; finish vrs value; offshore vrs weekender, et cetera. Throw in your bottom-line considerations, such as adquate headroom, and pretty soon you'll find that the boat chooses you, rather than you it. The one caviat to this advice is to make certain your wife is part of the equation; when I got to the bottom of my list, the choice was a Catalina 400, but when my wife got to the bottom of hers, it was a Hunter 410. Guess which one we bought....
thats were we were 6 years ago.
First of all listen to John regarding what to look for, and get your wife involved. Go to the boat shows and walk through them to see them first hand. Buy used and save lots on money Mosr importantly there is no one right answer. It is all about compoimises, and finally finding the boat that best meets your needs. Good luck Russell S/V Allie Kat H 376
First of all listen to John regarding what to look for, and get your wife involved. Go to the boat shows and walk through them to see them first hand. Buy used and save lots on money Mosr importantly there is no one right answer. It is all about compoimises, and finally finding the boat that best meets your needs. Good luck Russell S/V Allie Kat H 376
Talk to people
Walk through some marinas, talk to owners, ask them what they like and don't like about their boats. Some will invite you aboard, and you can start to judge for yourself what features and characteristics are most important. There are reasons the major brands are popular. One of the big determiners will be how much you can spend. John and Russell are both on target, and buying used gets you twice the boat for the money - just make sure to have it surveyed first. Buy Practical Sailor's 2 volume set called "Practical Boat Buying" - its reviews are somewhat dated, but give you lots of ideas of what to look for in the range you will be inspecting. Buy a boat that won't be too tough to sell, as you might want something different when your skills and family grow.
Walk through some marinas, talk to owners, ask them what they like and don't like about their boats. Some will invite you aboard, and you can start to judge for yourself what features and characteristics are most important. There are reasons the major brands are popular. One of the big determiners will be how much you can spend. John and Russell are both on target, and buying used gets you twice the boat for the money - just make sure to have it surveyed first. Buy Practical Sailor's 2 volume set called "Practical Boat Buying" - its reviews are somewhat dated, but give you lots of ideas of what to look for in the range you will be inspecting. Buy a boat that won't be too tough to sell, as you might want something different when your skills and family grow.
Start with a price point.
Paul: You need to start with your price point and see what boats are available in your price range. There are plenty of good boats out there but if you cannot afford them what difference does it make. Once you get you budget (including insurance, berthing, electricity etc) you can start looking. All of boat that you mentioned can be affordable. Once you find what you are looking for, you will need to find a surveyor (if used). If you purchase a used boat, you can add value to it with some sweat equity. I would not recommend a fixer upper, but maybe a boat that just needs cleaning,varnish and some cosmetic fixup.
Paul: You need to start with your price point and see what boats are available in your price range. There are plenty of good boats out there but if you cannot afford them what difference does it make. Once you get you budget (including insurance, berthing, electricity etc) you can start looking. All of boat that you mentioned can be affordable. Once you find what you are looking for, you will need to find a surveyor (if used). If you purchase a used boat, you can add value to it with some sweat equity. I would not recommend a fixer upper, but maybe a boat that just needs cleaning,varnish and some cosmetic fixup.
Just the boat - Hunter 43 (early 90's)
For that army you have take a look at a Hunter 43. It has a forward and aft stateroom plus a couple berths as you come down the companion way. Don't know what your budget range is but this should provide the creature comforts you're looking for in a reasonably low maintenance package. Anyway, based on your description this is what comes to mind. Catalina 42's come in three stateroom versions too.
For that army you have take a look at a Hunter 43. It has a forward and aft stateroom plus a couple berths as you come down the companion way. Don't know what your budget range is but this should provide the creature comforts you're looking for in a reasonably low maintenance package. Anyway, based on your description this is what comes to mind. Catalina 42's come in three stateroom versions too.
Some add'll things to consider...
Paul, a few redundant or alternative comments to what's already arrived at your doorstep: Owners are good sources of the positives of their boats but rarely seem an objective source of the negatives (posts on BB's confirms this over and over). Moreover, they can only view their boats in the context of their uses, which may differ from yours. This doesn't disqualify their views from being useful but sometimes owners' views are considered the most valid source of 'data', when in truth its value is more limited and subjective than that. What waters will you be sailing in? Is this potentially a 'step up' boat (after all, you haven't yet owned nor cruised a sailboat)? What uses will you make of the boat in the near term? I can't imagine choosing a 'right' boat for your family, exclusive of luck, without being pretty specific about how it will be used, and what the local conditions will be. I also wonder if somewhat smaller would, counter-intuitively, be somewhat smarter, to the extent this feels like an experiment. A gaggle of kids aboard tells me being able to handle the boat singlehanded (you or your wife) will be important; think about that when looking at the anchoring set-up, sail handling (to include reefing), tacking and trimming, and consider a robust below-decks autopilot. Try to favor a boat that's truly a pleasure to sail, in the conditions likely in your area(s) in the season(s) you'll be sailing; after all, you've got 3 young sailors who would learn to love sailing more if the boat really did sail well. This is especially true in areas with lighter winds. Give serious thought to adding a sailing dinghy for the kids' sake. Are there sailing clubs in the area? Charter boats in varying sizes which are available regionally? Finding ways up front of getting on the water in a sailboat, with the kids, and sampling the experience and different layouts, rigs and such seems like an especially prudent starting point...and a good way to build skills. Clubs and charter outfits can help you sort out how to do that with few initial skills. You seem the ideal candidate family for a boat choice that offers an active owner's association in your area (not just a web presence). Fellow owners/sailors (as you no doubt are discovering here) can offer lots of advice, short-cut paths to vendors and gear of interest, but can also make things click for the whole family re: social events, cruises and such. An active local sailing club, yacht clug and/or marina with an active social program is another way towards the same end. Good luck and let's see what others think... Jack
Paul, a few redundant or alternative comments to what's already arrived at your doorstep: Owners are good sources of the positives of their boats but rarely seem an objective source of the negatives (posts on BB's confirms this over and over). Moreover, they can only view their boats in the context of their uses, which may differ from yours. This doesn't disqualify their views from being useful but sometimes owners' views are considered the most valid source of 'data', when in truth its value is more limited and subjective than that. What waters will you be sailing in? Is this potentially a 'step up' boat (after all, you haven't yet owned nor cruised a sailboat)? What uses will you make of the boat in the near term? I can't imagine choosing a 'right' boat for your family, exclusive of luck, without being pretty specific about how it will be used, and what the local conditions will be. I also wonder if somewhat smaller would, counter-intuitively, be somewhat smarter, to the extent this feels like an experiment. A gaggle of kids aboard tells me being able to handle the boat singlehanded (you or your wife) will be important; think about that when looking at the anchoring set-up, sail handling (to include reefing), tacking and trimming, and consider a robust below-decks autopilot. Try to favor a boat that's truly a pleasure to sail, in the conditions likely in your area(s) in the season(s) you'll be sailing; after all, you've got 3 young sailors who would learn to love sailing more if the boat really did sail well. This is especially true in areas with lighter winds. Give serious thought to adding a sailing dinghy for the kids' sake. Are there sailing clubs in the area? Charter boats in varying sizes which are available regionally? Finding ways up front of getting on the water in a sailboat, with the kids, and sampling the experience and different layouts, rigs and such seems like an especially prudent starting point...and a good way to build skills. Clubs and charter outfits can help you sort out how to do that with few initial skills. You seem the ideal candidate family for a boat choice that offers an active owner's association in your area (not just a web presence). Fellow owners/sailors (as you no doubt are discovering here) can offer lots of advice, short-cut paths to vendors and gear of interest, but can also make things click for the whole family re: social events, cruises and such. An active local sailing club, yacht clug and/or marina with an active social program is another way towards the same end. Good luck and let's see what others think... Jack
Kids may get bored . . .
I have found that my kids get bored after about 2 hours on the sailboat. I am considering getting a powerboat in addition to a sailboat. Point being that you should try things out yourself and maybe as a family. Sailboating requires know-how, especially if you are the skipper. I would gain knowledge and experience before committing the $$$. Regards, Ted
I have found that my kids get bored after about 2 hours on the sailboat. I am considering getting a powerboat in addition to a sailboat. Point being that you should try things out yourself and maybe as a family. Sailboating requires know-how, especially if you are the skipper. I would gain knowledge and experience before committing the $$$. Regards, Ted
Consider a Crewed Charter
Paul, you have received a lot of good advice on your inquiry. For a family of 5 to be comfortable on a sailboat, requires a decent sized boat, something that may be difficult to handle if you are inexperienced. I would suggest going out for a day or a weekend with a charter captain to see how you and your family like the experience. If all goes well, you can begin to gain the knowledge necessary to handle boats on your own through sailing schools, going out with friends, etc. The key factors on boat choice as others have suggested are intended use, budget, and personal preferences such as your headroom issue. But before you invest your money, make sure you are comfortable with the reality of sailing and not just the idea of sailing. Hope this helps. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H375
Paul, you have received a lot of good advice on your inquiry. For a family of 5 to be comfortable on a sailboat, requires a decent sized boat, something that may be difficult to handle if you are inexperienced. I would suggest going out for a day or a weekend with a charter captain to see how you and your family like the experience. If all goes well, you can begin to gain the knowledge necessary to handle boats on your own through sailing schools, going out with friends, etc. The key factors on boat choice as others have suggested are intended use, budget, and personal preferences such as your headroom issue. But before you invest your money, make sure you are comfortable with the reality of sailing and not just the idea of sailing. Hope this helps. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H375
Choosing a Cruising Sailboat
I agree with most of the advice that has already been given. I too strongly recommend the Practical Sailor book "Practical Boat Buying". Unfortunately the boat reviews in my edition (the 2nd) of the book are not dated and appear to be often 10 years or more old. I recommend a book called "The Complete Guide to Choosing a Cruising Sailboat" by Roger Marshall. I do not think it is really the "complete guide", but the book is excellent. Based on the size of your family and limited information about your needs, I think a minimum length monohull would be 32'.
I agree with most of the advice that has already been given. I too strongly recommend the Practical Sailor book "Practical Boat Buying". Unfortunately the boat reviews in my edition (the 2nd) of the book are not dated and appear to be often 10 years or more old. I recommend a book called "The Complete Guide to Choosing a Cruising Sailboat" by Roger Marshall. I do not think it is really the "complete guide", but the book is excellent. Based on the size of your family and limited information about your needs, I think a minimum length monohull would be 32'.
I have 3 and a wife
We faced a very similar issue a few years ago. For us, having a boat in the mid-30 foot range seemed right. Anything larger would require more muscle mass to make things work AND, equally important, the cost was too high. It was also important to us to NOT have any kids sleeping in the galley. Since I have three daughters (16,14, and 11), they can sleep in the same cabin but it needed to be large enough. Additionally, my wife is a tremendous cook and the galley was very, very important to her. Finally, we also planned (and do) spend a lot of long weekends on the boat so wanted something that was "nice" below deck. We ended up with a Beneteau 36 Center Cockpit. The aft cabin is huge and, with an insert I made, is capable of sleeping all three daughters. My wife and I use the forward cabin which is plenty for us. Now adays, there are 36s with three cabin arrangements. Three years ago, they were just coming to market in quantity and thus were too expensive for us. The Galley is incredible and it is so nice below deck, a mechanic who came on to help me bleed the fuel line commented on it and how nice it was to actually see real wood and not just plastic. Bottom line is talk to each other about what is really important. If I were interested in racing, I'd never have bought a center cockpit. However, we are cruisers through and through. Thus, as long as performance is acceptable, that was all that mattered. Good luck. Dave s/v Benediction
We faced a very similar issue a few years ago. For us, having a boat in the mid-30 foot range seemed right. Anything larger would require more muscle mass to make things work AND, equally important, the cost was too high. It was also important to us to NOT have any kids sleeping in the galley. Since I have three daughters (16,14, and 11), they can sleep in the same cabin but it needed to be large enough. Additionally, my wife is a tremendous cook and the galley was very, very important to her. Finally, we also planned (and do) spend a lot of long weekends on the boat so wanted something that was "nice" below deck. We ended up with a Beneteau 36 Center Cockpit. The aft cabin is huge and, with an insert I made, is capable of sleeping all three daughters. My wife and I use the forward cabin which is plenty for us. Now adays, there are 36s with three cabin arrangements. Three years ago, they were just coming to market in quantity and thus were too expensive for us. The Galley is incredible and it is so nice below deck, a mechanic who came on to help me bleed the fuel line commented on it and how nice it was to actually see real wood and not just plastic. Bottom line is talk to each other about what is really important. If I were interested in racing, I'd never have bought a center cockpit. However, we are cruisers through and through. Thus, as long as performance is acceptable, that was all that mattered. Good luck. Dave s/v Benediction
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