How to Buy a Sailboat

[jon hansen]

Sail Place – Offering Sailing as a Lifestyle

www.sailplace.com

buy a low hour fresh water vessel. save having to replace everything that's rusted out. then sail it to the cruising grounds of your choice.

stay away from old salt water boats

lots of used freshwater boats that will serve you well.

google yacht brokers on each great lake. start calling them.

hint: don't buy one that just arrived up from salt water.

hire a great lakes broker to find you a fresh water boat of your dreams. not some old rust bucket.

a 20 year old fresh water boat is a totally different animal than a 20 year old salt water boat. you want to go sailing or do you want to start a project.

that is just one brokerage house. there are plenty more. try the great lakes as your sales room.

that greman frers swan is a blue water racer that takes a full crew to sail. sweet boat. not a mom and pop cruiser.

 

[jon hansen]

Rich Larsen - Manitowoc Marina, Boat Sales, Service, Dockage, Storage, WI

Rich is the President of Nestegg Marine and Manitowoc Marina. He is a leading industry expert, spending his entire career in the marine industry. Rich led the Manitowoc Marina before […]

www.manitowoc-marina.com

call rich larsen, he owns the place, knows how to find any boat on the lakes. he's an old friend, use my name if you want. have him find you a vessel without the rusted up gear. sailboats are not as popular up on the lakes. better prices and no rusted out everything. then enjoy your cruise down to the bahamas instead of the spending 2 years replacing everything.

 

[dirt rd]

To add to @dlochner ’s post above - surveyors are also not without bias. Most avoid giving you a candid opinion that’s negative because they often get references from brokers. They also know that it’s a buyer’s dream, and they don’t want to dash dreams or squash the sale. Rather, they’ll couch their analysis in qualified phrases such as “shows normal wear for its age” (translated ”due for scheduled replacement but not an emergency or risk”) or ”should be maintained or upgraded at buyer discretion” (translated - he wouldn’t want his boat in that condition so it’s “overdue for replacement“).
Never take a surveyor referral from a broker. Always find one from another boater or from the NAMS or SAMS web sites.

Edit - pay very close attention to the findings and deficiencies section- those are negotiable points with the seller, or might be reasons to walk away from the deal.

8’ draft is a deal breaker on the east coast and Bahamas.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Yeah, while this Swan may be a lot of boat for the money, it would probably be a huge mistake. This is an ocean-racer for an energetic crew ... and it is not fit out for a Caribbean-cruising couple. It is especially not suited for the Bahamas. The teak decks will be your worst nightmare. The cockpit may be suited for ocean racing but it is an uncomfortable mess for cruising. How would you get comfortable in that segmented compartment? It has heat, but no air conditioning it seems. That's just great for the Caribbean, isn't it? Access for swimming is just great with that extremely swept reverse transom ... just wet down the transom and slide right in! Nevermind that it's almost impossible to get out of the water, or into or out of a dinghy! There appears to be 6 sets of winches along the sides ...two sets accessible from that weird cockpit configuration with 2 compartments. What would you do with all those winches, except service probably 4 sets that you don't use? It seemed like the battery capacity was pretty light for a cruiser to me, plus it is set up for 24v (which may or may not be something for you to change).

This Swan appears to be a highly specialized boat for very few sailors to enjoy, which is probably why it is priced low ... few buyers are interested plus it is reaching 40 years old. I'd bet it is just ripe with issues that the owner doesn't want to address with all the time and money that would be required. It's definitely a dated boat, and not in a good way.

Also, don't underestimate the muscle power that is required to handle sails on this size boat. My wife has a very hard time handling the sails on our 33' boat. She doesn't have the strength to trim our genoa for close-haul sailing and I have to admit that it isn't easy. On a boat over 40', I suspect that powered winches are an absolute necessity for an aging couple. This boat would be your worst nightmare for cruising the east coast and Bahamas, I think.

 

[jssailem]

8’ draft is a deal breaker on the east coast and Bahamas.

If you plan on racing across oceans, an 8ft draft could help you sail to wind in a good way. If you want to explore warm bays and beach fronted islands in the Caribbean, than an 8ft draft could be a liability. It would complicate your options cruising along the East Coast. The ICW (Inter Coastal Waterway) is a boaters highway to travel N-S with out exposing the boater to the challenges of Off-Shore cruising ie. Cape Hatteras (The treacherous waters off the coast of the Outer Banks are known as the Graveyard of the Atlantic, Over 600 ships wrecked here as victims of shallow shoals, storms, and war. Diamond Shoals, a bank of shifting sand ridges hidden beneath the turbulent sea off Cape Hatteras, has never promised safe passage for ships.)

Choose your dream then find a boat that can help you enjoy it.

Just looking at a boat then trying to fit the boat to your dream is how boat owners end up buying multiple boats.

 

[markwbird]

A little advice here please on how to decide on buying a boat without emotion dominating the decision.

I am retiring at the end of next year and intend on spending the winter months as a liveaboard in the Caribbean.

My original intention was to finish the refit on a 1964 Allied Seawind that I have so that I am able to cruise in the Bahamas. My wife doesn’t feel like she would enjoy spending extended time living in cramped conditions and taking cockpit showers.

We found a 46’ Swan in Annapolis that I am flying out to look at this weekend.

This is much more boat than I was ever expecting to have but I am already caught up with daydreaming of how awesome it would be sailing such a fine boat. I do realize that the 8’ draft is not ideal for the Bahamas but I am already telling myself that the extra comfort that my wife will enjoy is worth the inconveniences that we are likely to encounter.

The boat already has an extensive refit recently completed so there will be no extra expenses incurred when we are ready to go.

I fully expect that once I get on board and go below decks I will be in awe of the build quality and spaciousness of the layout as I look around.

The extra expense of the maintenance and storage is the biggest issue I have to account for but I don’t yet have a full appreciation the impact it will have on our retirement funds.

Buy a boat without emotion? What's the point? The Swan 46 is a nice boat. The 8ft draft could be somewhat limiting in the Bahamas but maybe not as bad as you think. I would look at some charts and think about where i would like to be able to go and try to get a bead on how problematic it really is. A nice sailing boat is a beautiful thing and the Swan 46 is definitely that. It may not be the most comfortable live aboard. At least look at some other options.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Buy a boat without emotion? What's the point? The Swan 46 is a nice boat. The 8ft draft could be somewhat limiting in the Bahamas but maybe not as bad as you think. I would look at some charts and think about where i would like to be able to go and try to get a bead on how problematic it really is. A nice sailing boat is a beautiful thing and the Swan 46 is definitely that. It may not be the most comfortable live aboard. At least look at some other options.

The Bahamas are basically much the same in bathymetric feature as the southern FL peninsula. A Swan 46 is a passage-making, ocean going sail boat. It’s not really a gunkholer. The 8-ft draft will keep you out of places among the shallow flats of the Bahamas, as it would in many FL locations. If you want to spend time there get the right tool for the job. A shoal-draft vessel designed and built for such waters; e.g., certain Morgans and Beneteaus or Jeanneaus for example. There are others; centerboard models. Generally, bigger boat-deeper draft unless designed for shoal use. Don’t ask the salesperson. Whatever you wish for the boat, it can do, according to those folks.

 

[Cowpokee]

OK, what about going in a completely different direction?

The Steve Killing designed Express 30 that I currently own has a 5.5’ draft.

I could trailer it over to the east coast of Florida and sail it to the Bahamas. (Hell, Sumner sailed his Mac 26 over there)

I think that I would be comfortable spending several months on this vessel. (My wife would just fly over for several weeks at a time as we would be back to cockpit showers)

Before spending most of our retirement money on a dream that might not suit her, she could get an idea of what we would be in for. Just to see if life would really be like those YouTube videos that we have been watching.

It would need a few upgrades:
Additional water tankage
Additional house batteries
Heavier anchor

Plus if it does work out, I would have a better idea of what boat would suit us best.

 

[dlochner]

OK, what about going in a completely different direction?

The Steve Killing designed Express 30 that I currently own has a 5.5’ draft.

I could trailer it over to the east coast of Florida and sail it to the Bahamas. (Hell, Sumner sailed his Mac 26 over there)

I think that I would be comfortable spending several months on this vessel. (My wife would just fly over for several weeks at a time as we would be back to cockpit showers)

Before spending most of our retirement money on a dream that might not suit her, she could get an idea of what we would be in for. Just to see if life would really be like those YouTube videos that we have been watching.

It would need a few upgrades:
Additional water tankage
Additional house batteries
Heavier anchor

Plus if it does work out, I would have a better idea of what boat would suit us best.

This is the best idea you have had yet.

It will still cost some money to equip the boat, but far less than buying a boat and refitting it.

As important as more usable battery capacity adding solar is essential. Energy is expensive. Electricity in marinas is metered and you will pay dearly. Last April I paid $8.50 for a gallon of diesel. It was higher than usual, but still about $2-$3 more per gallon than it was in the US at the same time. So you don't want to be running the diesel just to charge the batteries.

An AIS transponder is a good idea. It is helpful when going down the ICW and a great asset when crossing the Gulf Stream.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

An AIS transponder is a good idea

Agree, and you can move it to the next boat if needed (if you buy from milltechmarine.com you’ll get good tech support and later reprogramming assistance). You generally don’t get support from other marine electronics retailers. I’m a fan.
I strongly agree with adding solar and battery power, but (please forgive me, folks) for a small boat intended as a stepping stone to a larger cruiser you may find it more practical and economical to use a small quiet inverter-generator such as a Honda 2000 to charge the house bank daily. Not promoting it, just saying it is an option.
More water capacity is the big challenge, and fresh water isn’t always nearby in the Bahamas.
A 30 foot boat is very limiting for extended cruising. Ultimately, a larger more comfortable cruiser might also make the difference between whether your wife likes the lifestyle or not. There’s a big difference between a cockpit shower (that can get tiresome under some circumstances) and having an enclosed head with separate shower space, solar shower vs. hot water from the boat‘s freshwater system (noting you still need to conserve water). Full headroom and space to move can also become important when a prolonged rain and blow keeps you in the cabin.

 

[dlochner]

Another strategy to lure your wife into the lifestyle is to ship your boat to the Chesapeake. Spend some time cruising on the Bay. Visit the boat show to see some new boats, gear, and meet your favorite YouTubers. September and October are great months to sail there. Beautiful anchorages, enjoyable towns, lots of history.

Then you alone or with a friend take the boat through NC and pick up your wife a month or so later in SC. and head south. Except for the Myrtle Beach area, the ICW in SC can be quite pleasant.

Spend the rest of the winter heading to the Keys. There is a great cruising Community in Marathon. Key West can be a lot of fun. By spring you will have a lot of experience which will tell you what is really important to you on a cruising boat and give you some experience so your insurance company is willing to insure you for the trip to the Bahamas.

 

[rgranger]

Another strategy to lure your wife into the lifestyle is to ship your boat to the Chesapeake.

I would add the NC outer banks to your cruising grounds. Start out in Baltimore, ... hit Annapolis... visit Tangier Island and a few places on the DelMarVa... then do the Dismal Swamp cut through to the OBX... Then from there you have Eddington, Roanoke Island, Hatteras, Ocracoke, Oriental, New Bern..... etc. All great places to visit and interesting things to see and do.

Edit: My retirement fantasy does not include crossing oceans. I hope to outfit the perfect coastal cruiser and gypsy my way from Houston to Belfast (Maine) following the temperate weather and visiting all the tourist spots and secluded beaches. I also have the great loop on my radar.

 

[Crusty Ol Salt]

As I read through this, it seems you buy a boat the same as you buy a house. Write down the top 5 to 10 features you want then start your search.
For me it would be

Shallow draft
Coastal cruiser
Blue water capable
Inboard diesel
Gen set
Battery powered HVAC
Solar power
Sleeps 6 comfortably
Water maker
good fridge/freezer

Kinda scary a shower and head did not make the list.

So now that I have the list I can start my research for what fits my needs.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I also have the great loop on my radar.

Yes, I would too! Mainly because there is so much to see on the Great Lakes!

 

[Oksailor]

I would check out youtube Tim with Lady K sailing just posted two videos that really do a great job of going through this process as well as uses some sample boats that are currently for sale as examples. He is a great guy and has great videos on each boat manufacture with lots of history and information on lots of different boats.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I would check out youtube Tim with Lady K sailing just posted two videos that really do a great job of going through this process as well as uses some sample boats that are currently for sale as examples. He is a great guy and has great videos on each boat manufacture with lots of history and information on lots of different boats.

I've checked him out ... I've sensed a very strong bias both for some brands and against others. I've also found his evaluations to be myopic. Frankly, I've not found his reviews to be useful at all - his content is way too shallow and brief - he tries to fit in too much in each episode and barely scratches the surface in describing important characteristics of a boat model. He also seems to have an unrealistic sense of valuation and spends too much time refuting what the market dictates.

 

[Oksailor]

I'm not really a "market" person myself, but I do lots and lots of research and have been doing that for years and so I already have a good Idea of what I'm looking for in a boat. I do think Tim does a good job, (Albeit without getting too specific) that which boat you pick depends on how you intend to use the boat. Safety is paramount in my book... And I'm not worried at all about racing, while fun, it's not really what I want to spend much of my time doing. I myself have really two types of boats picked out.. a Trailer-able size boat and a real cruise the world type of live aboard boat.. Both completely different animals...

 

[dlochner]

Amateur boat reviews seems to be a new trend on YouTube. I would take any one of them with a large grain of salt. Tim basically reviews ads with out adding much additional information. At least Captain Q and Learning the Lines get on the boats they are talking about. More informed reviews are available elsewhere such as Good Old Boat Magazine, Sailing, and Practical Sailor. The reviews in Sail and Cruising World are mostly rephrased marketing hype.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Tim basically reviews ads with out adding much additional information.

Exactly. He seems to constantly harp about things like sailboat dimensions, which is material he can "research" via sailboatdata.com. I saw one episode where all he did was judge boat models up or down simply based on his ratio of LOA vs. LWL. That single characteristic seems to be his one "thing", which forms the basis of his reviews. They were completely useless reviews.