How to best sail a '82 H30?

[malyea]

Enjoying racing my '82 H30 (5'3" draft with 135 RF genoa, no genoa tracks just blocks snap shackled to the toe rail - but adjustable) and was wondering...

what's the fastest way to sail her to the windward mark?

Do I sheet it all in as tight and close as possible - or - ease her off a few degrees to a close close reach to keep the boat speed up?

I don't have the electronics or a slide rule to do any precise measurements or calculations - just curious if there's some fact based gouge from those sailing this same boat...

Close hauled and in the groove or eased off a few degrees, what's best for a 28 year old H30?

Thanks

 

[Ed Schenck]

Where's Blaise? He has. . .

the fastest Cherubini around. Even though he sails a 37-cutter he has it rigged as a sloop. I would expect he could provide some insight.

I was never sure whether my boat sails faster when flatter. But I think that it does. There are just so many variables. Mast rake and bend with good canvas can dramatically change how she points. With the sheets on the toerail it is hard to see how you would bring the main in when you are trying to keep a good slot. You are "eased" by default. But a handheld GPS could tell you a lot.

 

[dbecker68]

I'm not a racer, but . . .

I have a '82 H30 myself, although I never have raced her (except whenever there are two or more boats in the bay, there is an unofficial race). I find that Dreamboat "feels" faster when she is eased off just a few degrees. As Ed says, there are so many variables. Since I don't race, I don't pay as much attention to mast rake, stay tension, "ideal" sail trim, etc. So for me, it's just a feeling.

 

[Blaise]

The H30 deep draft is an amazing boat going uphill. With a 155%, It will point higher than a J29. I am not sure where your 135% sheets, but it should be inside the bow pulpit and lifelines when hard on the wind. With the foot inside the lifelines, the sail should be about three inches off the spreaders. You should be sailing just high enough for the inner telltales to just occianionally break up.

 

[tomgrigsby]

The deep draft 82 H30 that has been trouncing everyone in our informal racing club points as high or higher than everyone else. From what I've seen and experienced, the answer to your question is BOTH. A race tactic close hauled is to sail a somewhat scalloped course (slight fall offs to grab some more speed and allow you to point higher then fall off a bit as you slow to regain speed). I've only just learned of this tactic and haven't tried it yet. And of course, the relative wind moves forward as you go faster, so as your speed increases you'll actually be driven slightly farther away from true wind (and presumably - the mark) beating to windward.

 

[Blaise]

This is just my opinion, But it has been my experiance that skippers that pinch and then fall off are soon very far astern. If you try this, keep yours eyes glued to your knotmeter. Combining two inefficient points of sail (pinching and stalling) will never be faster than straight line properly trimmed close hauled.

 

[tomgrigsby]

Come to think of it your comment makes sense Blaise. I haven't seen that 82 that continually trounces me doing the scalloped course thing. I've had plenty of opportunities to observe him from astern. He just gets close hauled and leaves us all in his wake. Picking the best course and working it would seem to be a good plan. Of course, I'm not into fancy tactics and leading edge stuff anyway or I wouldn't be out racing a 79 Hunter. It is just great fun and comraderie, plus I hope to be a better cruiser for having learned the nuances of sail trim.

 

[malyea]

"I am not sure where your 135% sheets, but it should be inside the bow pulpit and lifelines when hard on the wind."

The PO had the geneoa sheets rigged inside the lifelines to the toe rail snap shackle which caused the sheet to rub heavily on the top lifeline when off the wind on even a close reach...I didn't like the look and rub of that setup, so I routed the geneoa sheets outside the lifeline to the toe rail snap shackle...result is zero rub on the lifeline on any point of sail...

...and it seems - given that the sheet routes to the same toe rail snap shackle that is in the same exact place - I shouldn't be giving up any amount of close trim capability when close hauled (it's not like I'm giving up a sheet point that is mounted several inches inboard of the lifeline...)

Now, having said that - I have noticed that I can trim my main tighter (ie, closer to centerline, relatively speaking) than I can my geneoa - such that if both sails are trimmed close hauled, my geneoa will luff slightly before my main - so - I trim my geneoa as tight/close as I can and then ease off the main trim a bit such that they both luff at the same time - that seems like correct procedure - doesn't it?

 

[Blaise]

A quick clarification. Both the H30 that I race against, and Midnight Sun, have inboard tracks. When making the comment about the sail being inboard of the lifelines, I did not consider it being sheeted to the toe rail. These boats are very competative when sailed well. The h25 and h33 were first drawn as race boats and produced with flush decks. Hunter wanted the deck changes to make the boats roomier and more cruiser friendly. The H37c shoal draft has a much longer keel than the deep draft and was originally designed with a centerboard to enhance its performance up wind. Hunter decided to eliminate the centerboard to save production costs. All the centerboard slots were filled with concrete.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Blaise, did you ever know an H37C to actually have a centerboard? I have seen that filled in slot on my shoal draft. Kind of wish I had that board. My son-in-law's uncle owns the concrete company that once negotiated with Hunter for keels. They could not get the necessary density so the project was dropped.

 

[Blaise]

Ed,
To the best of my knoweldge, the centerboard boat was never built.

 

[rardiH36]

A quick clarification. Both the H30 that I race against, and Midnight Sun, have inboard tracks. When making the comment about the sail being inboard of the lifelines, I did not consider it being sheeted to the toe rail. .

Blaise:

Can you clarify more? From various pics I've seen of Cherubini 37's, the shroud chainplates aren't that far away from the tow rail. Sort of like my Cherubini 36 ... which are about 3-4 inches. With the inboard track you mention, how are the jibsheets led? Inside the shrouds or out? I'm thinking inside might be very OK in light winds and would asist with pointing, but in a heavier blow, would the sheets and the sail itself be force out hard up against the shrouds? And what about points of sail off wind a bit when the jib/genoa would be slacked off a lot? If the sheets are inside, do you then reroute to the outside? Curious, because I'm wanting to know if its possible to improve my Cherubini 36 pointing compared to the original toe rail design.

I've been using a ~95% jib over the last year or so. Its got a Yankee cut. I have the jibsheet fairleads routed outside the shrouds to snapshackle blocks on the toe rail which I move fore/aft all the time depending on wind velocity and how much jib I've rolled off the furler. But also, the clue is at the same height as the whisker/spinaker pole eye on the front of my mast is when the eye its dropped to its lowest position on the track. And the clue is just forward of a right angle with the eye. So, I've attached a third line to the clue as an "in-haul" which routes through the whisker pole eye, down to a standup block on the deck at the base of the mast (which was original issue I think), then to the deck organizer and back to the cockpit cabin top where I can cleat it off with a cam cleat. By pulling on this line, I can draw the jib clue in so that the sheet is just touching the shroud .. almost two feet further in than with the toe rail fairlead on its own. Seems to be an alternative to an inside track, but I would like your opinion.

I've also found a way to haul-in my 135 genoa significantly compared to the toe rail only. But it entails going on deck after each tack; something I prefer to avoid if possible.

Thanks and regards for any insights,

rardi

 

[Blaise]

Rardi,
My tracks are on the deck right next to the coach house (cabin) The sheets are led outboard of the shrouds. Close hauled the clew and foot of the jib lie nicely inside the lifelines. Someone does have to skirt the jib as it is trimmed in. The foot of the jib touches the shrouds and the jib is about one to two inches off the spreader tip. In harder in heavy air and out further in light air. We usually reef at 18kts apparent. Hope this helps.
Blaise