How to attach sheets to jib

Status
Not open for further replies.

KandD

.
Jan 19, 2009
193
Hunter 40 Corpus Christi
it was a well calculated and thoroughly researched decision - I didn't want to cut the rope and it's easy to tie.
 

Benny

.
Sep 27, 2008
1,149
Hunter 320 Tampa, FL
Much to do about nothing. Bowlines are fine for handling sail loads. Remember you have got two sheets tied to the clew. The odds that one will become undone are not very high and I really like the odds that they will not both become undone at the same time. I respect the good advise of not using the bowline knot for mountain climbing but at sea level that will likely not pose a problem.
 
Sep 28, 2008
17
2 30 palmetto fl
Thanks, I like the eye splice idea.
Neat and tidy while being efficient and safe.
Appreciate ALL the feedback.
Jody
 

zeehag

.
Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
remember when you need to change it out in emergent situations that those will also be difficult to change....a bowline is difficult enough to tie when holding a flapping sail and trying to tie---is a good look--looks reallly nice---smooth , even.....
 
Dec 4, 2008
264
Other people's boats - Milford, CT
I used bowlines to tie off to climbing harness many times, but used a figure 8 more often. For either knot, I would use an overhand safety knot in the tail. But climbing harnesses are very different usage than jib sheets.

For jib sheets, I want to be able to be able to quickly detach and attach to be able to re-run the sheets or change to a different sail. The lines that I have used for jib sheets have all been pretty good at taking a bowline, without any "capsizes". Real high tech lines that are slippery will have shackles.
 
Dec 4, 2008
264
Other people's boats - Milford, CT
Tying bowlines on jib sheets needs to be done in the right direction, i.e., facing away from the clew. If not, the ease of removing the bowline goes away, because the part you loosen is going the wrong way. Think about it.
You need to draw me a picture, because I have no clue what you mean here. It wouldn't matter which way I was facing at the time, the knot would be the same.
 
Jan 22, 2008
198
Montgomery 17, Venture of Newport, Mirror sailing dinghy, El Toro sailing dinghy Mound, MN -- Lake Minnetonka
Quick release soft toggle -- Will not flog open accidentally

 
Nov 9, 2008
1,338
Pearson-O'Day 290 Portland Maine
There are SO many good knots! Who can count the ways?

For simplicities sake (I will assume that Jody is a lesser experienced sailor, like myself) a Lark's Head works great. Easy in, easy out. Concentrate on sail trim, sample the plethora of knots later.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,667
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I do not like any of the various ways one can connect one continuous sheet to the headsail (i.e., cow hitch) as that does not allow me to turn my sheets end-for-end to avoid chafe in various locations and lengthen the usefull life of the sheet. While the constrictor and buntline hitch are great knots, they are near impossible to untie once set and stressed. I also would not recommend the use of any kind of shackle to connect sheets to headsails. One bonk on the head and you'll know why....

I suggest continued use of the ever-faithful and wonderful bowline.
It's easy.. Start out with cows hitch/larks head and when the line wears cut it and end for end and use bowlines or a buntline that won't "shake loose"... ;) Buntlines are easier to tie for the less knot inclined..

I too have used bowlines for years, my father and grand father used them too. In 30+ years and thousands of miles never had one shake loose and don't recall that my grand father had any shake loose either but I never asked. He was the type though who would stop doing something at the mere hint of failure. I guess bowlines worked ok for him. I don't doubt that they could shake loose but I know lots of cruisers and sailors who have used them for a long time with good success.

I even sailed through a very well known storm in the fall of 1991 on a vessel with bowlines on jib sheets. Also sailed the 1979 Marion to Bermuda on a schooner using lots of bowlines, and that race was nasty! They are far from perfect as I have had then snag and they do weigh more in light air than larks head but shake loose, not yet, and still waiting for that to happen to me.

I am currently running bowlines but only because I got a very good deal on some cut ends that were only long enough for individual sheets but not long enough for one continuous.

My preference is a cows hitch / larks head but I don't get too worried if I use bowlines as my own long personal history is enough evidence for me that they hold up well. I have used buntlines too, great knots, but they don't like to come undone..

A friend used a variation of the constrictor on a single sheet and was unable to get it undone and had to cut the sheets. Not a problem he still used them and had an opportunity to end over end them. Constrictor is NOT going to slip nor come undone very easily.

I have seen a larks head slip but it was on a ring and the line was brand new so perhaps not tight yet but I have used them a lot and raced on many boats with them and have not seen slipping as an issue. Plenty of good ways to attach a jib sheet and it comes down to personal preference like most anything..


Interestingly enough I understand that "virtually NO ONE will recommend them ..." but the first book I grabbed off the book shelf......;) Of course most books disagree with each otehr on many issues so choose your own knot that you feel comfortable with..

US Sailing The Certification Series - Basic Keel Boat - Pg. 30
"Secure the jib sheets to the clew of the jib using bowline knots."
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
7,999
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
I like bowlines for connecting jib/genoa headsails...... always have, always will.. I have never seen, or heard off one shaking loose. A correctly tied bowline will have a 6-8 inch tail left on the knot to discourage this anyway. I don't like single line sheets on larger boats... they're fine on dinghies, cause you don't change sails and reverse or re route sheets. Sailors with roller furling headsails who are prone to using the cowhitch never remove their sheets for preservation of those expensive lines.... leaving them exposed to the elements 24/7/12...... Two separate sheets, attached with bowlines, are easily removed and stored inside...to be replaced with a dedicated line for securing the sail.

I'd be interested to hear any war stories regarding a bowline failure.
 
Dec 1, 1999
2,391
Hunter 28.5 Chesapeake Bay
To me, running rigging (or perhaps all line) fails primarily due to chafe, old age/UV exposure (like us aging sailors....), or perhaps using an undersized line for the job at hand. While I can understand a bowline coming undone if used with some inappropriate slippery hi-tech line, or if tied improperly, I am unaware of any instances of a bowline that broke under static or dynamic loads while in service as a headsail sheet. It would seem to me that any dynamic loads big enough to approach the break strength of modern lines would threaten any number of other parts of a boat long before a jib sheet tied with a bowline broke. So, like Joe, I too would be interested in hearing any factual stories about a bowline failure (to include type and size of line used and the circumstances of the failure).
 
Dec 4, 2008
264
Other people's boats - Milford, CT
Rich,

This page discusses loss of breaking strength. I think that everybody understands that knots lose a large fraction of the rope's strength. And that bowlines lose a pretty large fraction. But most jib sheets are generally grossly oversized for strength, so I don't think it is an important factor.
 

RichH

.
Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Its well OK to oversize, and use humongous sized line. Its ok to use bowlines. I prefer whenever possible to use 'light' high strength lines with the core removed for all the 'working parts'.
Ive lost control of my staysail during a F9 because I broke a damn bowline ... and the sea state was so extreme I couldnt go forward to make the repair, so I sat there like a duck in a washing machine while I shredded a very expensive staysail. My wife and I used to seriously campaign large ILYA Scows - we usually had problems with bowlines and quickly changed to either braided loops or 'proper knots' .... saved a lot of bumps and lumps. I also do mountain rescue, and have had the sad experience to recover many broken and dead bodies who used bowlines and other historical 'weak' knots and undersized 'rope', etc. One never 'sizes' rope for 'serious' applications on static breaking strength but rather must always, to be prudent, to include IMPACT, etc. loads. In my very early engineering days I did actual strength testing of lines, ropes and KNOTS for the USN, etc.
I offered advice based on a strict technical/scientific basis. You can certainly do what you want, but I will always maintain that bowlines (and the bowline derivitives) are very inferior knots in comparison to the huge selection of much 'stronger' knots.
 
Dec 1, 1999
2,391
Hunter 28.5 Chesapeake Bay
Ive lost control of my staysail during a F9 because I broke a damn bowline ....
Rich:
It would be quite useful and informative to the readers of this thread if you listed the type and size line that broke on your staysail (and how many sq ft it was), how old the line may have been and its overall condition, and precisely where it broke, i.e., in the bight that bends the line 180-deg through the clew cringle, or at the knot itself. It seems to me that any knot/hitch that creates a bight would be equally vulnerable there than anywhere else along the line including the knot/hitch itself. It also would seem to me that in your case you still had a windward sheet which I'm sure you considered using to save your sail in any number of obvious ways.
 
Oct 14, 2009
1
Pearson Commander Miltonboro
Well, the one thing I know is that the bowline is a handy knot. When I was a soldiear and young, I went to army Mountaineering school. The manual says " The bowline is used to tie the end of the rope to an anchor (object) always used when you have alternating tension...."" So the bowline is used in mountaineering and every place else. Its a good knot, unless you're some kind of knot snob.
 

Ross

.
Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
I have jammed bowlines because I over stressed the line while pulling beyond the reasonable for the line size: Half inch line on a stump and pulled with a one ton come-along. That knot was untied with a hatchet.
 

Ross

.
Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
If a knot fails how can an investigator know what manner on knot had been tied or if it had been tied correctly. Only of the line parted outside of the knot would the knot remain intact.
 

zeehag

.
Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
the bowline knot has been in use for centuries without problems.....is a sailors knot of knots--was first knot i was taught on board when i was first learning sailing at age 7...LOL...usable to hold a boat on anchor, on mooring, on dock.....goood for the line hanging the anchor light....tether for the kat, fenders, tarps, everything----dink painters to wtf...yes, a truly inferior knot--it loves to work....LOL.

we had more chafe at the shroud contact points .......
 
Status
Not open for further replies.