How Strong Is The Modern Keel???

[Maine Sail]

My vintage 1975 Pearson26W has a cast iron keel. dosent leak a drop no seep nothing Keel bolts look exactly the same as when I bought the boat 10 years ago. Im sure the new keels are adequite but I do not think they are as durable as 60`s and 70`s boats. They just don't build em like they used to.

No they don't because the current builders have moved away from wood cored keel stubs.

P-26 Keel:

Close up of P-26 laminate structure:

Catalina 30's for example, according to their designer Gerry Douglas, from about late 1987 on, have a 7/8" thick solid fiberglass keel stub. The C-310 the OP asked about is most likely at least 7/8" but perhaps even 1" solid glass.

Personally I would rather have a newer Catalina without wood in the keel stub than an older 70's - early 1987 model..

 

[Ross]

looking at the last picture Mainesail posted there is astonishingly little glass in that layup. In the early days of fiberglass boats they didn't realize that FRP was stronger than wood so they built to wood scantlings. THEN they started to try to save money. AND that's when some builders got into trouble.

 

[BobM]

I just knew...

...that the P26 owner was going to see a copy of that photo courtesy of Mainesail.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Keel problems

I have seen problems with keels on boats built in the 60's, 70's and up through today. It has been a learning process for the manufacturer. As before mentioned, the keel usually stands up to the grounding, but the hull doesn't. Mike Plant came into Annapolis, Md prior to his fateful Atlantic Crossing where he lost his keel and his life. Coyote ran aground and Mike, on a busy schedule to raise more money for his adventures, didn't take the time to inspect his keel after the grounding and it cost him his life. I was on the boat in Annapolis. I remember an old 60s or 70s production boat that used plywood in the hull where the keel attached. In time the moisture compromised the integrity of the hull and keel attachment. Through emperical knowledge of boat production, manufactures have found better materials to build their boats. San Juan 24, a very fun boat to sail, had keel problems in that the interior settee berth components provided the strength to the hull which kept the keel stable. But when grounded, it was a bit too light in construction and so needed beefing up in some cases. The modern race boat (non production) is often built on the edge, keeping it light and fast and eliminating some of the tolerances found on production boats - especially cruising boats. There is a great degree of over-builtness in production cruising boats which will sustain a lot of abuse from owners and mother nature. So, generally a new production boat will have a strong keel and hull to support it and so one should not buy an old boat for this reason alone. Man can, however, destroy most anything if he tries hard enough. And, cast iron has not gone the way of an Atomic 4. There are pros and cons, but one pro is cost and the environment.

 

[Warren Milberg]

So, ok, for you statistcally inclined out there:
1. How many recreational (i.e., not commercial, not experimental, not racing) sailboats would you guesstimate have been built and put in service by all builders since, say, the last 100 years? (I have no idea, but the industry reports that the US and Canada alone produced 15,000 sailboats just in 2006).

2. Of those, how many keels have "just fallen off" of them without prior warning or trauma (i.e., hard grounding, hitting an object in the water, etc.)?

3. Does that number fit the definition of "infitesimal" (i.e., immeasurably or incalculably small )?

As an anecdotal aside, I once helped a friend try to remove the keel of a 1980 Catalina 25. He was concerned that the mild steel keel bolts (can you imagine?) that Catalina used in some of its boats back then would be rusted and weak -- and that his keel might fall off. We were going to replace them with stainless keel bolts and then reseal the keel/stub joint. After laboriously removing the nuts on the keel bolts, which had some rust on them, we then began using a Dremel tool around the keel/stub joint. After working on this project for a few days, the keel was still firmly in place. He eventually had to cut the keel off with a reciprocating saw.

Of all the things there are to realistically worry about, and/or maintain, on one's boat, the probability of the keel "just falling off" -- without numerous and obvious prior warning signs, like rusty keel bolts, keel wobbling, water or rust oozing from the keel/stub joint -- has gotta be very, very low.

 

[bcopland@toga.com.au]

Buy a hunter - best keels

If you want a good keey buy a Hunter

I have a shoal draft H410 which charterers failed to dent in 5 years of abuse!

 

[Ross]

Warren, Just one small fly in the ointment here. In the auto industry just one death from a design flaw has removed some models from production. SUV rollover problems , Ford's pinto , Chevrolet's Corvair, gasoline tanks outside the frame on some-body's pickup truck model. Millions of cars built and statistically they were all very good but just one wheel coming off is too many. Just one keel or rudder getting broken off is too many.

 

[JoelHoover]

Please direct me towards the magical sailboat that never requires any maintenance.

I've also heard that it sails with no wind and comes with a bikini clad, all female crew.

Where do I get one?