How Slow Will You Go?

[YVRguy]

I was on a sailing trip this week. I was anchored in a quiet little bay and made plans to cross the Strait of Georgia. The wind picked up was blowing from exactly the direction I wanted to go. I forged ahead anyway under power and once past Cape Roger Curtis and into the strait I was pounding into decent sized waves and directly into the wind. Under power my speed was reduced to 3kts with pretty much full throttle. I was concerned with how powerless my 34ft boat seemed in conditions that weren't even considered a stormy. In the end I ended up turning for home and eventually motor sailing to get there faster.

My question is, what would you guys do?
A) Pound away at low speed into the waves and wind?
B) Make an endless series of broad tacks under shortened sail until you get to where you're going?
C) Give up on the plan and either head for home or your previous anchorage to wait for better conditions.

 

[Bad Obsession]

Our boats are designed to sail. Because of the bottom shape they don't motor that well in rough chop. They tend to hobby horse and loose speed.

This being said, it helps to run up your main. Even a reefed main is okay. Fall off of the wind a little so the sail is drawing some. You can motor sail up wind in a closer angle than you can sail. The boat also behaves better in this manner.

 

[Bob McL]

I go with C. But then my boat is smaller and I don't have to be anyplace on time. Sailing has always seemed to be at the mercy of nature and sometimes, if you are lucky. you just wait it out - even if another day.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Need more detail for a complete answer. How far distant was your up-wind destination? Were you needing to meet a schedule?; what was the weather forecast for that full day and the next couple of days? Finally, were there alternative destinations that would "vector" you toward your final destination over a day or two w/o having to go all the way with a dead beat that one day?

 

[kito]

Aren't sailboats suppose to tack when going into the wind?.......what's the big hurry?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Bad O nailed it. Motoring with a sailboat, regardless of type (except maybe cats) is a horrible way to travel, horrible, I say! I see so many idiots (NOT you!) doing this here on SF Bay it nags me. In perfectly good sailing weather 20-25 knots is calm here. Really. I sail. I have been out on the ocean when continuing to go upwind became too uncomfortable, then did what you did, turned around and sailed back. Still better than motoring. And don't call it turning your tail, call it well earned and well deserved caution. Good for you! Always better to wait if you're not comfortable. Never sail to a schedule.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Bad O nailed it. Motoring with a sailboat, regardless of type (except maybe cats) is a horrible way to travel, horrible, I say!

I don't know about that (your remark) or even that of Bad O. First of all, sailboats built after the mid-'90's or so are better adapted for motoring than older ones; just look at the relative HP of diesels in them now compared to those built in the '70's and '80's. I suppose if you're day sailing in the Bay and have all day to get somewhere (or nowhere!), motoring seems a waste of good wind. However, if I needed or wanted to make a destination say, by nightfall, or say, by the time of a slack current in order to transit a narrow pass during spring tide, motoring outright, or motor sailing (main) or power sailing (jib), is fine for me. Hell, they even have "motoring" allowances now for sailboat races (e.g., NOSA Newport to Ensenada)!!

 

[Bad Obsession]

Motoring into rough waves and heavy air slows my boat down to about 2-3 knots, or less. If I run up the main and motor sail into it I almost double the speed.

Sure, the newer boats have flatter bottoms and bigger diesels. They still don't motor as well into a head wind and chop as they do in flat water.

Another case in point. My current boat is a 1990 Catalina 30 with a 23 hp diesel engine. Still...her hull is based off an old mold, the prop is small for a 23hp engine, and she hates motoring into a chop.

Sailing with schedules sucks! I have to do it because I have to get back to the working world faster than I would like. If I could get away with it, I would change locations to a place off of the wind near where I am and then continue on the next day.

The worst thing, more than having a schedule, is having a planned trip. This means you have already decided your destination before you leave the house. When you do this you don't allow for weather or wind. It is far better to get out there and let the conditions tell you where to go (if this is possible).

 

[Stu Jackson]

KG, you're right, of course. In re-reading my post, I should have said "directly into high wind and waves" per the OP.

Motoring to get to a pass or a particular point due to navigational issues is not sailing to a schedule, at least to me.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Actually, I can't even say that motoring into steep wind chop (+ swell) is automatically a negative in the newer boat designs, of which mine (Bavaria 38E) is an example. Prior, for 11 years, we had a 1980 Pearson 30 with the 11 hp Universal. Point it into short-period wind chop at 15 to 20 kt and at full throttle it would all but stop; just enough way on to maintain head to wind at maybe 1 kt SOG. If we were going anywhere that day toward anywhere near that direction it was by sailing; i.e., beating at maybe 3 kt VMG. If the destination is 20 n.mi., it'd be a long, wet, cold, & lumpy ride. Hey, if you want to keep sailing with your wife over many years, you don't do that (at least not often). Call it a draw and go home; or as you say, somewhere downwind (and sea) if there is a place. Enter larger, newer, boat: flatter bottom with more HP diesel, and now there is a choice. You CAN make way against that sea--AND you can find a comfortable speed through the water that matches the sea rhythm and still gets you there. [You don't to have to pound the boat as hard as it can be pounded.] The diesels are powerful enough to basically "shoot" the boat off the top of a wind chop to the next one (pound!, pound!, pound!). OR, slow down at little, let it sort of ride down, more like an easy gallop than a fast trot. Wife is happy; we get there, don't get too wet (dodger); sail if we wish to when closer to destination, maybe getting into a lee that flattens things out a bit. Much more versatility. More time on the water; it's worth it!

As I've pointed out somewhere previously, these newer boats (e.g., Bavaria, Beneteau, Hunter, Catalina, etc.) are coastal cruisers, a.k.a. racer/cruisers; or maybe, high performance cruisers. They're designed and built to get you (+ guests) there and back over a long (or short) weekend in comfort. At that, they excel!

 

[Nom De Guerre]

Agreed, she sails in heavy seas much better than she motors. Motor sailing is second best, however, I make sure to not have so much canvas up that I'm healed much more than about 5°. I have read, and am concerned, that too much heal while motoring could starve the oil sump if it's drawing from one side of the pan or the other while the oil is on the low side.

 

[Meriachee]

The Strait can be a bear even on a good day. She's just wide enough, and potentially messy enough to have to suck it up and motor. That's one place where a good dose of caution is very, very well advised.

 

[NorthStar]

I have been in the Strait of Georgia many times. Once going south from Campbell River we ducked into Schooner Cove to avoid more motoring into the wind and 6ft wind waves. The B423 did well but we were not interested in ride. Sailing off the wind lasted for a short while as 4 kts VMG was insufficient to make any acceptable dock or anchorage. We hung out in Schooner Cove yet another day while the cold front moved through. Its great to be in love with your boat and your wife.

 

[YVRguy]

Thanks to all for a ton of great info. Your comments about sailing vs motoring make sense. I did actually pull the genoa out while motoring and doubled my speed while calming the boat some so that falls in line with your thoughts.

There is also an issue with reefing at sea which corresponds to another thread that Stu offered some great advice on.

Bottom line, I was feeling like a Nancy for not continuing across the strait and disappointing my friend. Next time I will be a little bolder knowing that sailing might actually be easier but I'm happy with the decision I made. Thanks for your patient advice. I'm learning - and having a ton of fun!!

 

[Meriachee]

Thanks to all for a ton of great info. Your comments about sailing vs motoring make sense. I did actually pull the genoa out while motoring and doubled my speed while calming the boat some so that falls in line with your thoughts. There is also an issue with reefing at sea which corresponds to another thread that Stu offered some great advice on. Bottom line, I was feeling like a Nancy for not continuing across the strait and disappointing my friend. Next time I will be a little bolder knowing that sailing might actually be easier but I'm happy with the decision I made. Thanks for your patient advice. I'm learning - and having a ton of fun!!

And don't forget that now and then the rail can get washed.

 

[Stu Jackson]

And don't forget that now and then the rail can get washed.

Actually wrong. If you do that on a 34 foot boat, you are horribly overcanvassed. And, to boot, you're going slower.

 

[Jalepeno]

I’ve crossed “the pond” at all times of the year in clear and bad weather over the last twenty years. I will not start out if there is a Gale or Storm warning or if it is pissing down rain but I’ve been in winds over 25kts with waves over 5ft a number of times. As you know, in the southern Strait, the strong winter winds are mostly going up the Strait from the south-east due to low pressure zones, in the summer they are mostly going down the Strait from the north-west due to high pressure zones and they can come from all directions during the shoulder seasons. There are always exceptions such as the Cowichan and the Squamish winds.
I have found that “motor sailing” is the solution. Never motor without your main sail up except for entering or exiting a harbour. The main sail or a reefed main sail provides tremendous stability and assists with propulsion. A friend taught me long time ago to pull my mainsail traveler to one side if there is no wind or if you have to go to close into the wind to sail properly. It will add about one knot to your speed and make things confortable. Run the diesel at your normal cruising speed and do not run it at full speed for any length of time. Full speed will not make you go faster and all you are doing is risking overheating the motor. A displacement sailboat is not a stink pot motor boat.
Sometimes I will take the inside passage around the north end of Bowen and Keats Islands to get a more favourable angle to north-west winds by cutting across from Gibson’s to Entrance Island and on to Nanaimo, or the reverse course if going home in a strong south-east wind. That will add about one hour to the typical 5 hour trip for me. Remember that winds at each side when close to land will be less intense but will tend to follow the shore. There is no noticeable tide current to worry about in the Strait except near the passes.
You probably already know all this but it is good to get a second opinion.

 

[Jalepeno]

I posted this last year:

................................................................................................................................

Crossing the Strait of Georgia is not rocket science but there are a couple of thing to keep in mind. All of the above advice offered by others is valid. I would like to add:
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- Always check the VHS weather channels before and during the trip. Remember it tanks about 5-6 hours. It seems that I always have the wind on the nose when going from T-bird to Nanaimo forcing me to motor sail with the main pulled over to one side to steady her.
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- Always monitor Vessel Traffic Services on VHS 12 east of Cape Roger Curtis and VHS 11 west of Cape Roger Curtis. You can track the larger vessels from their reports and call the vessels directly or VTS to clarify crossing or possible conflicts.
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- You do not need to worry about the BC ferries and cruise ships. They are very courteous and accommodating but keep an eye out for the fast power boaters running on autopilot without anyone at the helm and the tugs with tows. They are slow but sometimes trail lines behind the tows. Never go between a tug and her tow!
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- Night crossings are very easy once you get comfortable because all the power boaters stay home and the commercial operators are extra vigilant. Very important to monitor VTS, keep your cabin lights OFF (night vision) and watch for navigation lights.
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- I go over to Nanaimo about ten times per year for almost twenty years, half the time at night (leaving after dinner and arriving around midnight). Often the water is full of bio-phosphorescence near Gabriola Island and sometimes in the winter you can see the Aurora Borealis to the north. Dolphin sighting are getting more common.
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- The only potential conflict I’ve had was when the Seattle fishing vessel “Silver Dolphin” (sister ship of the “Northwestern”, Deadliest Catch TV) was bearing down on my port side at about 20kts one sunny afternoon while I was under full sails. They ignored my VHS hails and finally VTS gave them royal sh_t and they altered course. Don’t think it would have been a collision but a close call at less than 100 yards/metres.

 

[IH82BL8]

I'd go with B. My "plan B" would be to go with C.

 

[Steve Dion]

YVRguy: I would agree that veering off slightly (if that is possible) with at least a jib can help stabilize and pick up more speed.

We are located in the California Delta and some areas are narrow so that veering off your course is not advisable.

As far as your motoring speed are you still running a 2 blade prop? If that is the case you may want to consider going to a 3 blade configuration that is properly sized to your engine/transmission.