OK, Got a done deal with a broker in Fl, everything is on the up and up at least with me. We are supposed to settle on tuesday. I get a call and it's postponed till Thursday but my airline ticket is tuesday (as in the contract settelment date), so I say OK as long as I can stay on the boat and fix stuff till thursday because we plan to leave on saturday. He says OK as long as he has the money by tuesday and he won't accept a certified check and wants money wired to Atlanta 2 days ahead. I'm scratching my head and begining to think. How the hell do I really know this is a real business. How do I know this boat doesn't belong to some guy in Nabraska. My piddlie 50K isn't that much but FL isn't actually known for business ethics. I feel like OK here's my money but you're staying right here with me and my gun till I have a title. He is in breach of contract already but I want the boat and really have no desire to kill the deal(or the broker...YET!) as long as he's on the up and up. Has anybody dealt with Bayside Yacht sales in Bradenton FL?
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Hmmmm
I've never dealt with them and they may be the greatest bunch of people on the face of the earth. That being said, I would be wary of anyone who requests that money be wired, especially after a contract is signed and it wasn't originally part of the deal! And why 2 days ahead of your arrival to a bank in Atlanta? If they want a little more earnest money when you arrive in exchange for your being allowed to stay on the boat for a few days then I may consider it but they're the ones who put you behind schedule and they should be bending over backwards for you and your hard earned 50K. Talk to your guy's boss and see what he says about this. Your salesman may be on his way out (maybe he screwed up this deal) and figures 50K would be a good start for his new life! If the brokerage is, in fact, reputable, they might appreaciate something like this being brough to their attention! JMHO Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
I've never dealt with them and they may be the greatest bunch of people on the face of the earth. That being said, I would be wary of anyone who requests that money be wired, especially after a contract is signed and it wasn't originally part of the deal! And why 2 days ahead of your arrival to a bank in Atlanta? If they want a little more earnest money when you arrive in exchange for your being allowed to stay on the boat for a few days then I may consider it but they're the ones who put you behind schedule and they should be bending over backwards for you and your hard earned 50K. Talk to your guy's boss and see what he says about this. Your salesman may be on his way out (maybe he screwed up this deal) and figures 50K would be a good start for his new life! If the brokerage is, in fact, reputable, they might appreaciate something like this being brough to their attention! JMHO Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
I'm with Alan
There are some bogus certified checks around but I wouldn't wire any money anywhere until you're on the boat with signed papers.
There are some bogus certified checks around but I wouldn't wire any money anywhere until you're on the boat with signed papers.
Watch Out!
He just wants his money too early. Maybe he has another "Sale Pending" and wants your money to finance it. Wait for the papers, in hand. And call the current owner!
He just wants his money too early. Maybe he has another "Sale Pending" and wants your money to finance it. Wait for the papers, in hand. And call the current owner!
The Closing
Close your sailboat transaction like you would close purchase of a home. All parties present or correctly represented, all papers signed and noted, money and title exchanged. Leave nothing to promise or mail. Cover all issues in writing. Sometimes this process takes extra time to schedule. Don't hurry to pay in total up front without a proper closing. Don't be too anxious to get on board. A good broker should be able to handle a proper sale exchange for you. Good Luck!
Close your sailboat transaction like you would close purchase of a home. All parties present or correctly represented, all papers signed and noted, money and title exchanged. Leave nothing to promise or mail. Cover all issues in writing. Sometimes this process takes extra time to schedule. Don't hurry to pay in total up front without a proper closing. Don't be too anxious to get on board. A good broker should be able to handle a proper sale exchange for you. Good Luck!
Walk away if they yank you around
It is a buyer's market and if they yank you around find another boat. I'd be very carefull. When anyone says "rush it's got to be done today" I get worried.
It is a buyer's market and if they yank you around find another boat. I'd be very carefull. When anyone says "rush it's got to be done today" I get worried.
Wire $$$ 2 days before title
Are they kidding? Dont give them another cent up front. This sounds like an out and out con. No wiring period. If they wont take a certified check from you at the closing I would be very suspicious. A certified check signed by a bank officer is an obligation of the bank. If the broker is worried aboutf a bogus check, tell him you will pass at his bank where they can verify the validity of your check. Also ask for a photocopy to be wired to you. If the balks I would walk Dont give the money period without getting the title on the spot. Bob 2
Are they kidding? Dont give them another cent up front. This sounds like an out and out con. No wiring period. If they wont take a certified check from you at the closing I would be very suspicious. A certified check signed by a bank officer is an obligation of the bank. If the broker is worried aboutf a bogus check, tell him you will pass at his bank where they can verify the validity of your check. Also ask for a photocopy to be wired to you. If the balks I would walk Dont give the money period without getting the title on the spot. Bob 2
Good boat, bad deal
I've heard this story before and it didn't have a good ending! My son was trying to buy a boat through the internet from an individual in Alabama. It was a great boat for a good price. When he told the guy he would drive down to get the boat and pay for it (all e-mail communications)the guy came up with a new story about someone else coming for the boat and the first one to wire him the cash would get the boat. My son was suspicious and came to me. I noticed in this guy's e-mail some grammar that I had seen before in those Nigerian "I have some money and I need your help" letters we all get. A little further investigation revealed no such person and no boat. I have also heard of this on another website where a boat dealer was a PO box with no boats. I agree with the other posters, keep your money in your pocket until you see the boat and sign the proper paperwork. This is not the only good boat in the sea. Good luck.
I've heard this story before and it didn't have a good ending! My son was trying to buy a boat through the internet from an individual in Alabama. It was a great boat for a good price. When he told the guy he would drive down to get the boat and pay for it (all e-mail communications)the guy came up with a new story about someone else coming for the boat and the first one to wire him the cash would get the boat. My son was suspicious and came to me. I noticed in this guy's e-mail some grammar that I had seen before in those Nigerian "I have some money and I need your help" letters we all get. A little further investigation revealed no such person and no boat. I have also heard of this on another website where a boat dealer was a PO box with no boats. I agree with the other posters, keep your money in your pocket until you see the boat and sign the proper paperwork. This is not the only good boat in the sea. Good luck.
Don't misunderstand
I've flown to FL and seen the boat, met the broker. Had it surveyed took a quick sea trial, left 10% deposit. Haggeled over price, the whole shabang. It's, I kind of understand their just covering their butt, the late settelment but want the money when I get there thing that's bugging me. I like Jack's idea of another minimal deposit for staying on the boat but at least holding the wad till it's time. How would I know they aren't in chapter 13 or some other chapter of whatever book that is that screws everbody? Thanks guys.
I've flown to FL and seen the boat, met the broker. Had it surveyed took a quick sea trial, left 10% deposit. Haggeled over price, the whole shabang. It's, I kind of understand their just covering their butt, the late settelment but want the money when I get there thing that's bugging me. I like Jack's idea of another minimal deposit for staying on the boat but at least holding the wad till it's time. How would I know they aren't in chapter 13 or some other chapter of whatever book that is that screws everbody? Thanks guys.
put the money in escrow
safest way for both parties while giving seller/broker assurance you have the funds
safest way for both parties while giving seller/broker assurance you have the funds
Documented boat???
If the boat is documented look it up and check ownership and liens. My boat was documented and the owner was the guy selling the boat. I could not get new documentation until his bank loan was paid off. At the time of the closing he said that he would write a check to pay off the loan. But I guess someone could sell a boat and leave the loan unpaid. In that case the bank still owns the boat. Until the bank sent me the documentation papers I sweated a little as I didn't know the PO. But all went well. It took over a week to get the documentation from the bank. But if he had been a crook and not paid off the loan I would have had to hire a lawyer and go through a lot of crap to either get my money back or a clear title.
If the boat is documented look it up and check ownership and liens. My boat was documented and the owner was the guy selling the boat. I could not get new documentation until his bank loan was paid off. At the time of the closing he said that he would write a check to pay off the loan. But I guess someone could sell a boat and leave the loan unpaid. In that case the bank still owns the boat. Until the bank sent me the documentation papers I sweated a little as I didn't know the PO. But all went well. It took over a week to get the documentation from the bank. But if he had been a crook and not paid off the loan I would have had to hire a lawyer and go through a lot of crap to either get my money back or a clear title.
IMO, you actually have the upper hand
You have the money and are ready to close...neither the seller nor the broker have anything except a boat they both want to get rid of until the deal is closed...so they're the only ones who have anything to lose if the sale doesn't close. You'd have to find another boat--and yes, that's a PITA...but you'll still have all your money, including your deposit back, 'cuz they're now in breach of contract. So I'd stand firm if I were you: you're willing to wait two days to close but no money will change hands until then, or the deal is off. They won't let a "done deal" get away.
You have the money and are ready to close...neither the seller nor the broker have anything except a boat they both want to get rid of until the deal is closed...so they're the only ones who have anything to lose if the sale doesn't close. You'd have to find another boat--and yes, that's a PITA...but you'll still have all your money, including your deposit back, 'cuz they're now in breach of contract. So I'd stand firm if I were you: you're willing to wait two days to close but no money will change hands until then, or the deal is off. They won't let a "done deal" get away.
Are you kidding......
run away from this, the broker is in Fla and wants you to wire a check to Atlanta? Not that I bought that many boats in my life but I bet when you wire the money to Atlanta, the broker goes to his car to get some "missing" paperwork - say bye to your broker and the money. The money will be wired from Atlanta to god knows where before you figure out the boat actually belongs to someone else...wiring money is cash. DROP THIS DEAL SMELLS BAD!
run away from this, the broker is in Fla and wants you to wire a check to Atlanta? Not that I bought that many boats in my life but I bet when you wire the money to Atlanta, the broker goes to his car to get some "missing" paperwork - say bye to your broker and the money. The money will be wired from Atlanta to god knows where before you figure out the boat actually belongs to someone else...wiring money is cash. DROP THIS DEAL SMELLS BAD!
Good Boat ...bad Juju?
I would talk to the broker's - manager - supervisor - owners of the brokerage - pimp - whatever they call themselves these days and tell them that you will not pay for this boat in full or wire anything to an out of state bank until you have looked her over to your liking, looked over the title work and paperwork..names and boat numbers match up on boat and title...IN PERSON. I'd also ask for them to be present..do you have someone that will be with you as well as witness? You have already left a deposit therefore you should not have to be pressured to send anything else in until you get there. If its a matter of a cashier's check from your bank a problem for them because it has to "clear" 7-10 days I believe one slimy broker told us in Florida which I think is insane. Then see if you can find a bank down there that can hand you over the cash. Thats going to be a tough one.. Hubby flew down with cash in hand because we did not want to send anything in to have to haggle for it back if something went wrong and we worried the hole time with that amount on him. Our boat was a good boat but its PO's and seller had bad history, I never went into detail about it but you all would have died hearing how many owners she had and what happened to them and sifting thru her amounts of paperwork... Registration just came back on her and I wiped my brow.But I did do Boat fax and I called the Sheriff's department for that county and its surrounding area's to see if it was a stolen boat.. I also checked the courhouses records and their online records for that county/state for the man we were buying the boat from and looked at his history. I was being extra extra careful. Learned a lot about that man more than he probably would have ever wanted anyonne to know... You feel you have a good boat...just tread carefully and don't let them rush you or distract you at anytime. If he really wants to sell this boat to you I don't think he should charge you to stay on there for a few days until Thursday because of an inconvenience he caused to you... but thats just me.. B/Seadance
I would talk to the broker's - manager - supervisor - owners of the brokerage - pimp - whatever they call themselves these days and tell them that you will not pay for this boat in full or wire anything to an out of state bank until you have looked her over to your liking, looked over the title work and paperwork..names and boat numbers match up on boat and title...IN PERSON. I'd also ask for them to be present..do you have someone that will be with you as well as witness? You have already left a deposit therefore you should not have to be pressured to send anything else in until you get there. If its a matter of a cashier's check from your bank a problem for them because it has to "clear" 7-10 days I believe one slimy broker told us in Florida which I think is insane. Then see if you can find a bank down there that can hand you over the cash. Thats going to be a tough one.. Hubby flew down with cash in hand because we did not want to send anything in to have to haggle for it back if something went wrong and we worried the hole time with that amount on him. Our boat was a good boat but its PO's and seller had bad history, I never went into detail about it but you all would have died hearing how many owners she had and what happened to them and sifting thru her amounts of paperwork... Registration just came back on her and I wiped my brow.But I did do Boat fax and I called the Sheriff's department for that county and its surrounding area's to see if it was a stolen boat.. I also checked the courhouses records and their online records for that county/state for the man we were buying the boat from and looked at his history. I was being extra extra careful. Learned a lot about that man more than he probably would have ever wanted anyonne to know... You feel you have a good boat...just tread carefully and don't let them rush you or distract you at anytime. If he really wants to sell this boat to you I don't think he should charge you to stay on there for a few days until Thursday because of an inconvenience he caused to you... but thats just me.. B/Seadance
Doug
It doesnt sound like anything shadey is going on. First off, no one accepts certified checks anymore for just abount any amount of money. He probably wants the money wired to Atlanta where his account is. Lets consider that you want to spend time on a boat and change things on the boat that you dont officially own yet. I went through this same routine when I bought my boat a year ago. I drove 1200 miles and stayed in a motel for 2 days because the previous owner didnt want me to stay on her boat. That is perfectly understandable. If you sink the boat, then you can get out of the closing and the PO is stuck with dealing with their own insurance company. IMHO Tony B
It doesnt sound like anything shadey is going on. First off, no one accepts certified checks anymore for just abount any amount of money. He probably wants the money wired to Atlanta where his account is. Lets consider that you want to spend time on a boat and change things on the boat that you dont officially own yet. I went through this same routine when I bought my boat a year ago. I drove 1200 miles and stayed in a motel for 2 days because the previous owner didnt want me to stay on her boat. That is perfectly understandable. If you sink the boat, then you can get out of the closing and the PO is stuck with dealing with their own insurance company. IMHO Tony B
tonyb has some good points
but I still would not wire 50K to anyone for any reason without the paperwork being signed. I would not blame the PO or broker if they didn't allow you to do work or stay on the boat for the very reasons that tonyb cited, however, if they want the deal to go through as planned, then they need to make some concessions and try to help get you back on schedule. Escrow, as suggestd by Don, is probably the best way to go if they let you do work. That way they get their $$ if you cause damage and your money is safe if there's a problem with the broker/seller/owner. No money should change hands though, until you are at the table and the appropriate paperwork has been signed! Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
but I still would not wire 50K to anyone for any reason without the paperwork being signed. I would not blame the PO or broker if they didn't allow you to do work or stay on the boat for the very reasons that tonyb cited, however, if they want the deal to go through as planned, then they need to make some concessions and try to help get you back on schedule. Escrow, as suggestd by Don, is probably the best way to go if they let you do work. That way they get their $$ if you cause damage and your money is safe if there's a problem with the broker/seller/owner. No money should change hands though, until you are at the table and the appropriate paperwork has been signed! Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
Get a hotel room
Go down as planned, but stay in a hotel room and don't set foot on the boat until you've closed the deal except for a pre-closing inspection. The fact that they would want the money early AND hold onto the title is what smells bad to me. At the very least, you should be able to rent the boat for the 2 days for a small amount. They're the ones putting YOU out by pushing the closing off for whatever reason. Is anyone representing you on this deal or are you on your own? Do you know any brokers that can check this out for you?
Go down as planned, but stay in a hotel room and don't set foot on the boat until you've closed the deal except for a pre-closing inspection. The fact that they would want the money early AND hold onto the title is what smells bad to me. At the very least, you should be able to rent the boat for the 2 days for a small amount. They're the ones putting YOU out by pushing the closing off for whatever reason. Is anyone representing you on this deal or are you on your own? Do you know any brokers that can check this out for you?
A lawyer or your own broker might be worthwhile
A certified check is how I bought my boat 4 years ago. That is how we made a down payment on our house. You might contact a broker to act in you behalf. He might not want that much or you might get a lawyer. If the boat is documented then you have some evidence of ownership. But here in Alabama they don't title boats. I don't know about Florida. I felt pretty good buying my boat because the PO did sign over the documentation copy and gave me a bill of sale. His bank had the original documentation to secure the loan. But if you buy a boat here in alabama that isn't documented a bill of sale is the only evidence of ownership. To register a boat all you need is a bill of sale. So someone could fake a bill of sale and get registration papers in their name. A documented boat is more difficult to steal unless they take it to a state that doesn't title boats and they don't re-document the boat.
A certified check is how I bought my boat 4 years ago. That is how we made a down payment on our house. You might contact a broker to act in you behalf. He might not want that much or you might get a lawyer. If the boat is documented then you have some evidence of ownership. But here in Alabama they don't title boats. I don't know about Florida. I felt pretty good buying my boat because the PO did sign over the documentation copy and gave me a bill of sale. His bank had the original documentation to secure the loan. But if you buy a boat here in alabama that isn't documented a bill of sale is the only evidence of ownership. To register a boat all you need is a bill of sale. So someone could fake a bill of sale and get registration papers in their name. A documented boat is more difficult to steal unless they take it to a state that doesn't title boats and they don't re-document the boat.
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