How serious is this?

Don S/V ILLusion · Apr 19, 2009

Are we looking at the real gelcoat bottom? The reason I ask is that it is surprising you would even find 3 separate 20+yr old boats all stripped down to gelcoat simultaneously.

sailingdog · Apr 19, 2009

The ones that are clearly visible in the first and third photos appear to be stress cracks and may indicate some serious underlying problems with the hull or impact to the hull in those areas. It would help if you had a good overall photo and indicated where the photos above were located on it..

To me, it is generally worrying to see parallel cracks like that in the gelcoat, as the indicates that the hull is likely flexing along those lines in a fairly significant way...more than just oilcanning.

Gelcoat cracks occur in several different patterns, depending on the cause. They are listed in order of increasing worry and severity.

First, and most common is spiderweb crazing...this is a series of mostly random intersecting cracks with no particular directionality to them. It is usually caused by the gelcoat being applied a bit to thickly, and is fairly normal.

photo courtesy of fao.org.

Second is star-shaped impact-related cracks. These usually have an impact point at the center and lines radiating out from the common center at the point of impact. Often, these can be cause by things like dropping a winch handle on the deck, or hitting an object that doesn't actually puncture the hull.

photo courtesy of fao.org.

The third form gelcoat cracks often take are stress cracks. These are generally parallel cracks that run along an area where the underlying laminate is flexing more than is good for it. Generally speaking, the greater the number of cracks, the more severe the flexing...

image courtesy of marinesurvey.com

higgs · Apr 19, 2009

Time for a good surveyor.

Stu Jackson · Apr 19, 2009

Mystery boat?

Perhaps clue-ing us in on what boat might help, because there might be some known history with them.

RichH · Apr 19, 2009

Such cracking could be the result of
1. a VERY hard grounding
2. Long periods of inappropriate dry storage on 'vee-poppits'
3. Radical flexing (long time) of the hull during sailing - 'oil-canning' of the hull.
4. Just a lousy gel-coat / matting layer lay-up.

Obviously, the only probable way to determine is by some destructive testing wherein the lay-up sections (gel, matting, roving) in a small 'zone' are sequentially removed and the 'next deeper' section is examined for integrity, especially the important roving layer.
In all probability this is nothing more than a weak bond (hydrolysis) between the gelcoat and the matting later (both 'cosmetic' and non-structural) ...... BUT, Why take a chance? Such to me would be a 'run away from' unless the boat was a gift. Especially too that this boat has a bolt on keel, where the stresses are so concentrated at the keel root (and evidence of 'something wrong') ... would also raise a big RED flag in my mind.

jackhartjr · Apr 19, 2009

Call Rudy at D&R and ask him before making any decision on these boats.
Some day I will tell you why I say this.
Again, call Rudy FIRST!

508 644-3001
(In case you don't know, Rudy Nickerson worked at Oday when they were in business...purchased the inventory when it closed...and knows all about the pro's and con's of these boats and more than likely tell you what to look for in each model
Just make sure to purchase stuff from him as well as this board to keep 'em in 'bidness!)

JAck

RichH · Apr 19, 2009

jackhartjr said:
Call Rudy at D&R and ask him before making any decision on these boats.
Some day I will tell you why I say this.
Again, call Rudy FIRST!

508 644-3001
(In case you don't know, Rudy Nickerson worked at Oday when they were in business...purchased the inventory when it closed...and knows all about the pro's and con's of these boats and more than likely tell you what to look for in each model
Just make sure to purchase stuff from him as well as this board to keep 'em in 'bidness!)

JAck

Rudy is the residual 'guru' of not only ODays but also Pearsons. Would be invaluable advice.

sailingdog · Apr 19, 2009

Valentina—

Would recommend you read the Boat Inspection Trip Tips thread I started. It was written to help the average boater eliminate boats from consideration when looking to buy...

Valentina11935 said:
Yes, I should have mentioned the model It's oday240. I looked at 1988 and 1989 models.
The pix you see is actually gelcoat painted with VC17.
As for location of cracks - most are about 2-3 ft aft of the keel , near the bunks of a trailer that it rests on. Parallel ones are closer to the bow in front of the keel (keel is a wing type)
as seen on pic 2). All 3 boats that I had seen had bottom paint applied right over these cracks, but cracks show through anyway. My worry is that water will get in and with freezing and unfreezing cycling cracks will widen and gelcoat will start flaking off in big chunks... I wonder if it was a common problem on odays of this year. There sas an oday25 next to the boat that I was looking at It had the same bottom paint, but NO CRACKS at all. One more thing...2 of 3 boats I looked at are vrey dry inside.
As for surveyor...I do not know any trustworthy ones and have heard many stories of hack jobbers that really don't know what they are doing, only take $500 and say a boat is good...
THANKS AGAIN I am waiting for more comments.
Any oday240 owners-PLEASE comment on your boat bottom condition.

mokum2 · Apr 19, 2009

Get it checked out be a good marine surveyor. it might be the best money you ever spent. Always be leary of cracks such as this as they can indicate a structural problem in the fibreglass.

Steve Dion · Apr 19, 2009

A survey of these boats is probably 25% the cost. I would suggest you move on and see if there are models without this type of a problem.

Steve L · Apr 19, 2009

No Problems with an O'Day 240

Interesting that all three boats you're looking at have this problem.

I had a 1988 O'Day 240 for 15 years. (It was 2 years old when I bought it.) I took it off the trailer and put it in the water every Spring -- then back onto the trailer every Fall for Winter storage. Never had any problem like this on the hull. In fact, the gelcoat held up well all over the boat. I covered it every winter, and it picked up some cosmetic cracks on the decks, but it looked awfully good when I sold it.

My trailer had long boards to support the hull along the sides -- which would help spread the load. Do you suppose these boats had trailers with pads -- causing stress points at specific places?

This was a great boat for me (moved up to an O'Day 302 3-4 years ago). The 240 is easy and fun to sail. There's reasonable room below for the size of the boat.

Don S/V ILLusion · Apr 19, 2009

Having read all the comments and your description, it's still too hard to tell definitively what, if any problem exists.
It could be stress cracks in the gel and into the glass;
It could also be a bad barrier coat job which could exhibit this appearance;
It could be a bad VC17 paint job.
It really is hard to tell anything until you remove the paint and see the glass/gel coat.

Unless he knows more than he is selling, any seller should have no objection to you scraping off the bottom sufficient to actually see the structure. Even if you walk away, the seller can demonstrate the appearance of identifying the cause to his next victim/prospect.

Not to diminish the comments above but one can only guess at the cause until you can inspect the structure.

Ross · Apr 19, 2009

I will bet on the hard grounding theory. look on the inside for signs that the furniture has been disturbed.

sailaway78 · Apr 19, 2009

I'm going with

Either a hard grounding or problems from sitting on a trailer that maybe don't fit the hull just right. Those cracks look to me kind of like they radiate from a central point. First thing I would do is as Ross suggested, and check for any movement of stuff inside the boat. Furniture or possibly bulkheads. If you see anything inside, then run, don't walk away.

MrBee · Apr 19, 2009

Just my 1/2 cent worth with NO idea except an opinion....
A hard grounding to the front of the keel would tend to pull the front down and want to push the aft end of the Keel up. Both instances would cause these kind of "Cracks" .
Might not be that big of a deal. As Ross said... Look very closely inside to see if you can tell were the Glass may show the same type of past flexing.

Brian

jackhartjr · Apr 19, 2009

Call Rudy!
I was asking about several of the newer model Odays a while back for the day 2 foot itis' sets in. One of them was not on Rudy's 'prefered' list! I don't remember which it was!
Jack

Ross · Apr 19, 2009

I have a dock neighbor that hit a submerged log at speed while sailing and lost the rest of the season for a cracked hull and broken furniture. His is a Starwind 27 something.

How serious is this?

.

Attachments

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Steve L

.

.

.

.

.

.