I ordered a UPS sail from Doyle in the bay area in mid March. Told it would take 6 weeks. Talked to them "just got the materials from Doyle..." 2-3 weeks ago. Now three months has passed...no sail yet. So, how long do you wait till you start loosing your temper and bad mouth an organization? I am getting very close to it... I rather have been told it was going to take 3 months and have a surprise delivery by 2 months than the other way around. *grr abe
How patient are you before getting ticked off?
- Thread starter abe
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Waiting for sail
That is waaay too long to wait for a sail. If I were you I would defintiely cancel the order and demand a refund of the deposit asap! If you used a credit card, get in touch with them and dispute the charges. There's far too much competition, especially in SoCal, for you to have to put up with this type of horrible service.
That is waaay too long to wait for a sail. If I were you I would defintiely cancel the order and demand a refund of the deposit asap! If you used a credit card, get in touch with them and dispute the charges. There's far too much competition, especially in SoCal, for you to have to put up with this type of horrible service.
How often have you called
in between. A squeaky wheel... I hear ya tho, it su*ks being mistreated as a customer. Re: sails: MAYBE, just maybe, this is why I keep bangin' my head against the wall when I keep recommending using a LOCAL loft. At least you'd be able to bang your head against THEIR wall. Again, sorry for your situation, abe. I had the same kind of delay with Sail Care a few years ago, and when I called to find out, they misunderstood the tracking number I gave them and said they didn't have anything in my name!!! I sad, try by name AND here's the # again. They did apologize since they said they were going through some management changes, and everything finally came through OK, but it took some patience and repeat calls. And it was already MY sail!
in between. A squeaky wheel... I hear ya tho, it su*ks being mistreated as a customer. Re: sails: MAYBE, just maybe, this is why I keep bangin' my head against the wall when I keep recommending using a LOCAL loft. At least you'd be able to bang your head against THEIR wall. Again, sorry for your situation, abe. I had the same kind of delay with Sail Care a few years ago, and when I called to find out, they misunderstood the tracking number I gave them and said they didn't have anything in my name!!! I sad, try by name AND here's the # again. They did apologize since they said they were going through some management changes, and everything finally came through OK, but it took some patience and repeat calls. And it was already MY sail!
simple solution
Send DOYLE SAILS the url to this thread, and tell them that the whole Googleing world now knows what a horrible loft DOYLE SAILS is, because DOYLE SAILS no longer can seem to commit to a manufacturing schedule. By the way, within the marine industry, "six weeks" just means "a long time from now." Rather than settle on a time estimate next time, set a date. When I had a spinnaker built by North last winter, I told them I wanted to take delivery on the first of February. The sail was delivered on February 1st.
Send DOYLE SAILS the url to this thread, and tell them that the whole Googleing world now knows what a horrible loft DOYLE SAILS is, because DOYLE SAILS no longer can seem to commit to a manufacturing schedule. By the way, within the marine industry, "six weeks" just means "a long time from now." Rather than settle on a time estimate next time, set a date. When I had a spinnaker built by North last winter, I told them I wanted to take delivery on the first of February. The sail was delivered on February 1st.
I agree with using a LOCAL loft.
I went to all the big loft sites and filled out quote requests for my boat. Exactly TWO answered. UK Halsey wasn't one of them, neither was Doyle. The local North sails guys not only sent out a quote, he was excited to spec out AND come and make sure IN PERSON that all the measurements were right and that I spec'd out the new sail handling gear properly. This for a measly '76 Venture 21. He was really looking forward to putting fast sails on the boat so I could go out and be the local PHRF killer cause he did the same thing for an AZ V-21 and got his butt kicked on all points of sail by them while sailing his J-24, which impressed him. Not only that, he was the lowest quote, go figure... Rattle their cages DAILY until ya get some satisfaction.
I went to all the big loft sites and filled out quote requests for my boat. Exactly TWO answered. UK Halsey wasn't one of them, neither was Doyle. The local North sails guys not only sent out a quote, he was excited to spec out AND come and make sure IN PERSON that all the measurements were right and that I spec'd out the new sail handling gear properly. This for a measly '76 Venture 21. He was really looking forward to putting fast sails on the boat so I could go out and be the local PHRF killer cause he did the same thing for an AZ V-21 and got his butt kicked on all points of sail by them while sailing his J-24, which impressed him. Not only that, he was the lowest quote, go figure... Rattle their cages DAILY until ya get some satisfaction.
Local shop
This is probably more of a problem with a local loft you ordered from rather than the Doyle corporation itself. I am sure you put a deposit down. I would let them hear from you often, but anger probably won't help unless you decide to cancel your order. If you get angry - they get angry - and it may be reflected in the quality of work they do. People who work like this usually expect their customers to understand how busy they are and if you don't - they see you as the jerk.
This is probably more of a problem with a local loft you ordered from rather than the Doyle corporation itself. I am sure you put a deposit down. I would let them hear from you often, but anger probably won't help unless you decide to cancel your order. If you get angry - they get angry - and it may be reflected in the quality of work they do. People who work like this usually expect their customers to understand how busy they are and if you don't - they see you as the jerk.
Thank you...this is what I am going to do...
I will call Monday request an exact day of delivery. I it is within 7-10 days give or take a few days I will put up with it. However, I will let them know that I am disastified with their service, I will contact Doyle directly, and that I will post their name in every internet post I can find. If they give me the usual "I don't know"...then I will cancel my order and post like crazy. Part of my problem is that I have not squeeled enough...I figured I be nice and they will act accordingly. Now that my sailing vacation is soon approaching, I am getting more ticked off. thanks to all, abe abe
I will call Monday request an exact day of delivery. I it is within 7-10 days give or take a few days I will put up with it. However, I will let them know that I am disastified with their service, I will contact Doyle directly, and that I will post their name in every internet post I can find. If they give me the usual "I don't know"...then I will cancel my order and post like crazy. Part of my problem is that I have not squeeled enough...I figured I be nice and they will act accordingly. Now that my sailing vacation is soon approaching, I am getting more ticked off. thanks to all, abe abe
Sometimes there are two sides to a story
I have known the people in the SF Doyle loft for many years. It doesn't take them three months to make a sail. Sometimes, when posts like this appear, there is more to the story than it might appear. I don't know the facts of this transaction, but before someones hard-won reputation is damaged it is worth noting.
I have known the people in the SF Doyle loft for many years. It doesn't take them three months to make a sail. Sometimes, when posts like this appear, there is more to the story than it might appear. I don't know the facts of this transaction, but before someones hard-won reputation is damaged it is worth noting.
Phil, I paid my deposit March 16th...have not ..
heard from them since. I called them about a month ago and they did not have the materials from Doyle. Two weeks ago they told me the materials had arrived 1+ week. Last week they told me they couldn't guarantee me when they will get to manufacturing my sail and that the other guy was in charge of manufacturing. I asked them to call me back the next day...they never did. My only negligence is that I have not pestered them enough...only 3 phone calls in 3 months. All our conversations have been very nice...no anger involved...in fact they are very likable people. Maybe thats why its not getting done. I didn't change my order I didn't change the color of my sail and they were paid their deposit mid March. Now what else do you want to know? And sorry, you are right its not 3 months...its 2 months and 3 and 1/4 week. Thats my side of the story. abe
heard from them since. I called them about a month ago and they did not have the materials from Doyle. Two weeks ago they told me the materials had arrived 1+ week. Last week they told me they couldn't guarantee me when they will get to manufacturing my sail and that the other guy was in charge of manufacturing. I asked them to call me back the next day...they never did. My only negligence is that I have not pestered them enough...only 3 phone calls in 3 months. All our conversations have been very nice...no anger involved...in fact they are very likable people. Maybe thats why its not getting done. I didn't change my order I didn't change the color of my sail and they were paid their deposit mid March. Now what else do you want to know? And sorry, you are right its not 3 months...its 2 months and 3 and 1/4 week. Thats my side of the story. abe
the other side
I hear what you're saying, Phil, but with sail lofts the so-called "other side" is often that some big racer came in and placed an order for several $20,000 carbon sails, and the tiny cruiser with the order for a $2,000 dacron jib got pushed to the back of the line. The racer needs his sails by the XYZ cup, and the cruiser has been promised his sails "in six weeks." In this situation, guess who doesn't get his sail until the season is half over? It is in precisely these situations that the sailboat owners' web gives the recreational boater some informational clout that we never had before. Back in the days of yore, a certain sailboat manufacturer used to respond to customer problems with the standard line, "None of our other boat owners have experienced this problem." Then, when this net got going, we discovered that there were lots of other owners who were experiencing the exact same problems with the exact same boats, and we were able to call the manufacturer on it. I think the same situation might apply to sail lofts. When they realize that we're actually talking to each other in forums such as this, they're going to realize that the "you'll get it when you get it" attitude won't hold any more. You're right about the fact that it doesn't take three months to deliver a sail, at least not when the customer has a bit of clout.
I hear what you're saying, Phil, but with sail lofts the so-called "other side" is often that some big racer came in and placed an order for several $20,000 carbon sails, and the tiny cruiser with the order for a $2,000 dacron jib got pushed to the back of the line. The racer needs his sails by the XYZ cup, and the cruiser has been promised his sails "in six weeks." In this situation, guess who doesn't get his sail until the season is half over? It is in precisely these situations that the sailboat owners' web gives the recreational boater some informational clout that we never had before. Back in the days of yore, a certain sailboat manufacturer used to respond to customer problems with the standard line, "None of our other boat owners have experienced this problem." Then, when this net got going, we discovered that there were lots of other owners who were experiencing the exact same problems with the exact same boats, and we were able to call the manufacturer on it. I think the same situation might apply to sail lofts. When they realize that we're actually talking to each other in forums such as this, they're going to realize that the "you'll get it when you get it" attitude won't hold any more. You're right about the fact that it doesn't take three months to deliver a sail, at least not when the customer has a bit of clout.
Thanks to all of you and Phil.....
the wheel is in motion and I think I will finally find out by early next week if and when I will get my UPS sail as well as what was the delay. Keep You Posted as soon as I find out, abe
the wheel is in motion and I think I will finally find out by early next week if and when I will get my UPS sail as well as what was the delay. Keep You Posted as soon as I find out, abe
As Phil notes...
there are always two sides to a story. So why not ask Doyle to post a reply with their side of things here?
there are always two sides to a story. So why not ask Doyle to post a reply with their side of things here?
contact the boss!
Abe, If you don't get good answers, your sail, and an apology, I'd contact Robbie Doyle directly at the Marblehead (MA) loft.I've been dealing with them for years and their customer service is outstanding. I think he'd want to remedy this situation .
Abe, If you don't get good answers, your sail, and an apology, I'd contact Robbie Doyle directly at the Marblehead (MA) loft.I've been dealing with them for years and their customer service is outstanding. I think he'd want to remedy this situation .
Don't get ticked off. That will hurt you
Just act ticked off. Get in touch with the boss, for sure. Send Doyle this thread, for sure. But try to keep your sense of humour. Send them clown pictures, or bad service jokes.
Just act ticked off. Get in touch with the boss, for sure. Send Doyle this thread, for sure. But try to keep your sense of humour. Send them clown pictures, or bad service jokes.
Well this is what I have done....
I sent Doyle in the bay area an email stating that I have been very patient but disappointed that I have had to wait for three months for my sail. I then stated that this needs to be resolved with a date of delivery and that if they do not try to resolve the issue that I would contact Citibank, and also post in every website my experience with them. I asked them to email or call me to find out what is going on. Also, Phil has offered to intervene and get their side. I also email Phil the last 2 emails I sent to Doyle confirming the order date of March 16th. I also offered Phil a copy of my Citibank statement confirming when Doyle charged me for the deposit. I can't do any more to state my case. I did not change color or size of sails...in fact untill 3 weeks ago I have had no contact with Doyle thinking delivery was on its way. I believe that there was a delay on materials from Doyle...thats what they told me. However if they received the materials 2-3 weeks ago and they know that they are way behind on my delivery then they should place my manufacturing order in high priority. My attitude in life is that there are far too many important things in life than to get upset about a sail that is a luxury not a necessity. That said, I got tired of getting the polite run around the last two calls I made. Your responses could have easily have been..."Oh, it normally takes 3-6months to get sails", then I would have left it alone. Initially, I just wanted to get an idea of what was a realistic expectation. I also took the last suggestion and emailed Mr. Bobbie Doyle (well, I emailed their corporation back east...don't know if he will get it or not). I also told them about this site....I have nothing to hide and I am not afraid of their side..as long as they can back it up with proof. Hopefully, I will have a response in the next 2-3 days. abe
I sent Doyle in the bay area an email stating that I have been very patient but disappointed that I have had to wait for three months for my sail. I then stated that this needs to be resolved with a date of delivery and that if they do not try to resolve the issue that I would contact Citibank, and also post in every website my experience with them. I asked them to email or call me to find out what is going on. Also, Phil has offered to intervene and get their side. I also email Phil the last 2 emails I sent to Doyle confirming the order date of March 16th. I also offered Phil a copy of my Citibank statement confirming when Doyle charged me for the deposit. I can't do any more to state my case. I did not change color or size of sails...in fact untill 3 weeks ago I have had no contact with Doyle thinking delivery was on its way. I believe that there was a delay on materials from Doyle...thats what they told me. However if they received the materials 2-3 weeks ago and they know that they are way behind on my delivery then they should place my manufacturing order in high priority. My attitude in life is that there are far too many important things in life than to get upset about a sail that is a luxury not a necessity. That said, I got tired of getting the polite run around the last two calls I made. Your responses could have easily have been..."Oh, it normally takes 3-6months to get sails", then I would have left it alone. Initially, I just wanted to get an idea of what was a realistic expectation. I also took the last suggestion and emailed Mr. Bobbie Doyle (well, I emailed their corporation back east...don't know if he will get it or not). I also told them about this site....I have nothing to hide and I am not afraid of their side..as long as they can back it up with proof. Hopefully, I will have a response in the next 2-3 days. abe
Doyle - St. Pete - very positive experience
I bought a Stack Pack main and Tides track system from Doyle - St. Pete last fall. I didn't actually get it installed until this spring. They were VERY helpful - from the initial measuring (which I did myself) through production and then installation this spring. They kept every promise and provided excellent support before AND after the sale.
I bought a Stack Pack main and Tides track system from Doyle - St. Pete last fall. I didn't actually get it installed until this spring. They were VERY helpful - from the initial measuring (which I did myself) through production and then installation this spring. They kept every promise and provided excellent support before AND after the sale.
Tides Track - love it!
My main wasn't particularly hard to haul before, but it zips up (and down!) now. I thought my husband was going to divorce me; we did the install ourselves. It was a major pain to slide it up the mast in the groove. Progress was measured in inches for a while. When I ordered it, they sent me the little measuring tool. One letter on the tool was too loose, and the next one was too tight. So we went with the slightly too tight one, since it would fit in the mast track - just tight. With Doyle's advice, we got it in. We filled a spray bottle with dish soap and water and continually squirted the track and mast groove. I'm sure I have the cleanest groove in the marina now. Also, we had to enlarge the mast gate a bit to accommodate the track, but the instructions from Doyle/Tides were very specific about how much/which direction. We tried a dremel tool at first, but we ended up drilling a series of small holes to very carefully remove the part we needed; then we smoothed the cut edge with the dremel grinder attachment. Overall, if you're a good do-it-yourselfer, not a major deal. We're not in the good category - just the learning category. I wish we'd had someone available to install it; I would've paid. But it all turned out okay. I am still tweaking everything with the stack pack, but the track is working great! The stack pack is just a matter of getting the reefing lines, lazy jacks, and cover support set correctly. Good luck!
My main wasn't particularly hard to haul before, but it zips up (and down!) now. I thought my husband was going to divorce me; we did the install ourselves. It was a major pain to slide it up the mast in the groove. Progress was measured in inches for a while. When I ordered it, they sent me the little measuring tool. One letter on the tool was too loose, and the next one was too tight. So we went with the slightly too tight one, since it would fit in the mast track - just tight. With Doyle's advice, we got it in. We filled a spray bottle with dish soap and water and continually squirted the track and mast groove. I'm sure I have the cleanest groove in the marina now. Also, we had to enlarge the mast gate a bit to accommodate the track, but the instructions from Doyle/Tides were very specific about how much/which direction. We tried a dremel tool at first, but we ended up drilling a series of small holes to very carefully remove the part we needed; then we smoothed the cut edge with the dremel grinder attachment. Overall, if you're a good do-it-yourselfer, not a major deal. We're not in the good category - just the learning category. I wish we'd had someone available to install it; I would've paid. But it all turned out okay. I am still tweaking everything with the stack pack, but the track is working great! The stack pack is just a matter of getting the reefing lines, lazy jacks, and cover support set correctly. Good luck!
YEEEPY MY UPS SAIL IS COMING!!!!!!!
Received a call from San Francisco Doyle....very nice people despite all the delays. They were very apologitic and honest stating that they have been overwhelmed with work and they felt they dropped the ball and it should not have taken that much time. They are working overtime building my sail and I will get it by the end of the week. I forgive because they have always acted in good faith...and in all honesty they did tell me the truth..they just didn't know when they were going to get to my sail. Maybe I was too nice and they were under the impression that it was okay with me....I tend to hold things in untill I just burst. I do thank you guys for educating me in what a realistic time table was and when I emailed them...they did respond. I just put this one as a learning experience and maybe I should have been a little more aggressive 6 weeks ago. Again, despite the delays...they are really nice people up there and I would use them again. I have a feeling my next will take 6 days.
abe
Received a call from San Francisco Doyle....very nice people despite all the delays. They were very apologitic and honest stating that they have been overwhelmed with work and they felt they dropped the ball and it should not have taken that much time. They are working overtime building my sail and I will get it by the end of the week. I forgive because they have always acted in good faith...and in all honesty they did tell me the truth..they just didn't know when they were going to get to my sail. Maybe I was too nice and they were under the impression that it was okay with me....I tend to hold things in untill I just burst. I do thank you guys for educating me in what a realistic time table was and when I emailed them...they did respond. I just put this one as a learning experience and maybe I should have been a little more aggressive 6 weeks ago. Again, despite the delays...they are really nice people up there and I would use them again. I have a feeling my next will take 6 days.
abe- Status