I like brussel sprouts but my wife hates them. Thus, we never eat brussel sprouts unless they are served to us by our host.
- Will (Dragonfly)
- Will (Dragonfly)
How much wind is too much?
- Thread starter Allowishish
- Start date
Specs on my boat say it will take 14 foot waves...Try that on Lake Michigan
I learned last season to watch for when the wind starts to blow the lake waves over to call it a day. I had a couple of exciting times thinking I was all that and a bag of chips and learn I was not. This April I'm in a basic keelboat certification class, with my daughter, on our lake with the club's certified instructor to learn and improve. So hopefully I'll start to get more comfortable in less then ideal conditions, plus it makes us get out 4 weekends in April too..
Yeah, it really does depend on the boat...one day in Galveston I was practicing for the Aggie Cup with my brother; together we weigh more than 300 pounds, and we had gusts of up to 26 kts. It was all good fun screaming along Offats Bayou in a 14 ft. FJ, but eventually the winds exceeded our weight ratio, and we literally ended up pitch-poling the boat while gybing downwind. Another time I can remember, I was sailing my Catalina 25 in Kemah, and the only other boats out were 35ft or larger; I had my main reefed and only about 50% of my jib unfurled, and I still had my port windows in the water; we were really pushing the boat heading upwind, but once she was on a more even-keeled point of sail, like a beam reach, she was screaming along! That day, actually, I set the most recent speed record for my boat: 10 kts.! Now I have, one time, sailed with my uncle on his Hershoff 50 schooner in Florida; that ship has so much ballast that we were actually outrunning a massive thunderstorm straight downwind. The main and mizzen gafsl's were wing-on-wing, and he actually was brave enough to deploy the ginnaker on the bowsprit; I remember us making about 25-27 knots. It also strongly depends on a sailor's preference of how they like to sail. If you are a cruiser, then chances are that you aren't going to enjoy screaming along, healing over at about 60 degrees, but I, as a racer, LOVE IT; the most fun I ever had was when I took my Sunfish when I first bought her to Kemah and stuck her in Clear Lake right before a thunderstorm. I had people yelling at me from powerboats that were inbound, but I didn't care, because getting up on a plane and skimming across the water while actually passing them up was such a thrill!
I haven't experienced wind levels in flat water conditions that have made me fearful. Reefing is the antidote. I change to a smaller jib and can reef down even smaller with the furler when the conditions warrant it. A double reef in the main sail and a 110 jib reefed down further works wonders. At 30 knots, the wind has my full attention. I doubt I've experienced sustained wind at 40 knots. I haven't experienced wind and real waves, yet. I doubt I would leave the bay for ocean sailing in my boat at 20 knots wind until I've experienced it by being out as the wind grows. I would be most fearful about the inlet. On Barnegat Bay, I think the controlling factor is leaving the dock. At 30 knots around the slip, I would be more worried about maneuvering without damaging other boats or being pinned in a situation that would damage my boat, so I would stay in. We've experienced a few of those conditions in our brief period on the bay. It's mostly a comfort level for Sue that limits my willingness. If I have crew who are not nervous, I would be willing up to the limits of the crew, I think.
The hard part is keeping it from opening all the way. The furling line must be kept on a sturdy winch, and you pray the line doesn’t break (in which case you would have real problems). In a real blow a storm jib would be a better bet.
my question stemmed from going out last weekend.
My main only has one reef point so we stuck to the 150 genoa heavily furled. As the day went on we furled it even more.
winds were 15-20 with gust around 27-30
unfortunately we are new to sailing but bought the boat to learn. I have been out 15 times in the 3 months we have had the boat but the wife has only been out 5 times and we had "never sailed before" friends with us.
There were definitely lessons learned but for the most part it went well. definitely had rails in the water a couple times but just turned into the wind and they lifted.
I felt that with my current ability (and no experience crew) that was the limit of what I wanted to do. It was still fun. I was just curious about limits. I also assume that most boats can handle more than their crew can... but assumptions....
My main only has one reef point so we stuck to the 150 genoa heavily furled. As the day went on we furled it even more.
winds were 15-20 with gust around 27-30
unfortunately we are new to sailing but bought the boat to learn. I have been out 15 times in the 3 months we have had the boat but the wife has only been out 5 times and we had "never sailed before" friends with us.
There were definitely lessons learned but for the most part it went well. definitely had rails in the water a couple times but just turned into the wind and they lifted.
I felt that with my current ability (and no experience crew) that was the limit of what I wanted to do. It was still fun. I was just curious about limits. I also assume that most boats can handle more than their crew can... but assumptions....
You did exactly what most do to learn limits of your boat and comfort level. It boils down to;
Boat
Equipment
Setup
Conditions, Wind, Gusts, Waves, Storm chances, Entry to dock and your experience and your crew if any
It is different for each sailor
When you buy a new main sail, be sure to get 2 reef points. You may want a smaller genoa as well. Keep the 150, for sure, but a new head sail in smaller size may prove to be more versatile. My next head sail will be no more than 130%, maybe more like 120%. We consistently have a lot more wind on Barnegat Bay than we experienced at Lake Hopatcong. I'd not be surprised in your location that thermal conditions can cause frequent high winds.
Anything that puts you, your crew or your boat at unnecessary risk is too much.
I teach both sailing and motor cruising and the factors that I take into account are all the same. What is the ability of the crew? This is one of the first questions as the crew will typically give up and tire before the boat does. Where are you going? Are you going to be in sheltered waters where a F8 from the north will have little impact or will you be in coastal waters where a F8 from the north creates a dangerous lee shore? Will you be upwind, downwind or on a beam reach? How about a the sea state? Size of boat matters here but also wind and tide combination. Are you in tidal waters? Is it wind against tide or wind with tide? For how long on your proposed passage?
Lots of things to consider but as a relatively new sailor, F3/4 will create great sailing conditions whereas F5/6 may be overwhelming.
Hope this helps. Please reply with more questions
I teach both sailing and motor cruising and the factors that I take into account are all the same. What is the ability of the crew? This is one of the first questions as the crew will typically give up and tire before the boat does. Where are you going? Are you going to be in sheltered waters where a F8 from the north will have little impact or will you be in coastal waters where a F8 from the north creates a dangerous lee shore? Will you be upwind, downwind or on a beam reach? How about a the sea state? Size of boat matters here but also wind and tide combination. Are you in tidal waters? Is it wind against tide or wind with tide? For how long on your proposed passage?
Lots of things to consider but as a relatively new sailor, F3/4 will create great sailing conditions whereas F5/6 may be overwhelming.
Hope this helps. Please reply with more questions
Size is not always the key. Boat speed is. You can put a Hobie 14 or 16 out in 30 knots and have a blast, yet for many monohulls, that is way too much. The real question becomes how much of that wind can be turned into speed before the drag on the sail becomes greater than what will push the boat forward. Most boats are going to hit that point between 25 and 35 knots. For a given wind speed, the faster your boat goes, the less wind pressure there is.
The second question is how big is your auxiliary power. If you have a low power outboard, your back plan is weak, and you will not push it as close to the edge, as if you have a monster outboard that will handle anything. If you always know that your can fire up the motor and get out of trouble, then your risk is much less, and you can choose to go out, even if the wind is too much.
The second question is how big is your auxiliary power. If you have a low power outboard, your back plan is weak, and you will not push it as close to the edge, as if you have a monster outboard that will handle anything. If you always know that your can fire up the motor and get out of trouble, then your risk is much less, and you can choose to go out, even if the wind is too much.
waiting for the space x to go on youtube, sailing like skiing can rate the persons skills. green, blue, black, yellow for the steepness and obstacles of the hill. you only get to the next level by desire and practice.
on aeolus my main and mizzen and jibs (not genoas ) are designed and built to handle 60 mph. storm tri sails above that.
above 55 degrees snow dosen't hold on the mountain. it is my observations and studies that indicate with the skills you can still try sailing up to around 60. above that whole new realities come into play.
fun fact: the trade winds blow a steady 25 t0 35 and so setting up your boat for a comfortable ride in that is allot different then a picnic afternoon in the summer on the bay.
the op asked about the wind. 0 to sixty is my answer
on aeolus my main and mizzen and jibs (not genoas ) are designed and built to handle 60 mph. storm tri sails above that.
above 55 degrees snow dosen't hold on the mountain. it is my observations and studies that indicate with the skills you can still try sailing up to around 60. above that whole new realities come into play.
fun fact: the trade winds blow a steady 25 t0 35 and so setting up your boat for a comfortable ride in that is allot different then a picnic afternoon in the summer on the bay.
the op asked about the wind. 0 to sixty is my answer
Ideally, we never learn the limits of the crew's abilities. That's why it's good to discuss these questions and make plans and decide on limits ahead of time.
-Will (Dragonfly)
Personally, I think a Yankee cut jib is the most versatile headsail for those who sail in areas where conditions vary greatly. It is high cut so visibility under it is great in high traffic areas, the sheets are higher off the deck than those of a genoa (so they don't get caught on funnels and cleats when tacking), and it can be carried long after a deck sweeper genoa of any size can. Of course, it isn't the best light air sail, so if you can rig a staysail (not that hard even on boats w/o a staysail stay) with the Yankee you've got a nice set up for lighter airs.
we have a 130 genoa and initially considered changing the 150 out until we were more comfortable.
But the winds are normally 6-10ish and frequently drop much lower. I have grown to really like the 150 for our lake. (in most conditions
)
In the future we will go smaller sooner.
But the winds are normally 6-10ish and frequently drop much lower. I have grown to really like the 150 for our lake. (in most conditions
)In the future we will go smaller sooner.
Seastate (wind vs. swells), air temperature, volatility in speed, what relative tack you on, and vertical component of gust/predominant wind direction (and make a HUGE difference.
It varies. Most us have been in summer conditions in much stronger winds on a decent tack in a decent seaway -- only to find 35 knots on the nose with a backing swell (for example) and cold winds seem to beat the crap out of you and the boat on a beat. You're pounding an going no where.
Then, I've been in 40 knot true winds on a beam reach that I enjoyed a great deal -- my bride below was getting thrown periodically on her ear. The boat was going 13 knots across the bottom -- but that sort of weather is a huge barrier to getting most crews out on the boat. It's "fun" for a hour or so; however, after about 15 hours it becomes too much for most of the crew. Reefing the main can make a big difference; but the seaway is a huge variable.
I think that 99% of sailors on this board wouldn't find those winds any more desirable or comfortable. IT's not the boat can't take it, it's the crew that really doesn't like it. As my wife reminds me: NOTHING goes to weather like a Boeing 737. If she simply wanted to get there, she'd go by plane or train.
It varies. Most us have been in summer conditions in much stronger winds on a decent tack in a decent seaway -- only to find 35 knots on the nose with a backing swell (for example) and cold winds seem to beat the crap out of you and the boat on a beat. You're pounding an going no where.
Then, I've been in 40 knot true winds on a beam reach that I enjoyed a great deal -- my bride below was getting thrown periodically on her ear. The boat was going 13 knots across the bottom -- but that sort of weather is a huge barrier to getting most crews out on the boat. It's "fun" for a hour or so; however, after about 15 hours it becomes too much for most of the crew. Reefing the main can make a big difference; but the seaway is a huge variable.
I think that 99% of sailors on this board wouldn't find those winds any more desirable or comfortable. IT's not the boat can't take it, it's the crew that really doesn't like it. As my wife reminds me: NOTHING goes to weather like a Boeing 737. If she simply wanted to get there, she'd go by plane or train.
"Too much wind" would have a different answer if on a well-trimmed boat with proper sails and a experienced skipper, than it would on a poorly-trimmed boat with old, baggy sails of the wrong size or type under command of a fairly new skipper. It might also depend on the waters and what point(s) of sail you wished to make. Normally, I'd hardly ever find myself out in even 35-40 kt. Most likely on the Barvaria then if simply cruising I'd be doubled reefed on the mainsail with the genoa furled down to less than 100% to maintain way with "comfort."
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