How much mast rake do you have?

[Chris & Lenore]

Just curious what others have done in terms of mast rake.

Teliki has about 6 inches aft rake. She sails well with no adverse weather helm (rudder is positively locked down under sail).
I removed all the rake one season and found it impossible to balance the boat. Put back the 6 inches and can hold course with only a finger on the tiller.
But - it always looks excessive and raked more than other macs when I compare.

Also, I am sailing with the original, blown out main but have a new one on order. I realize tis alone will change how the boat handles and balances.

Maybe half the rake (3 inches) and see how it handles?

Chris

 

[oreana123]

Wow! Mast Rake- one of my favorite subjects

I wonder how anyone got 6 inches of rake without installing a new, longer forestay and two, shorter sidestays. Did you loosen your forestay turnbuckle as much as possible, and then tighten the sidestays enough to get proper rig tension? Did that alone give you enough travel?

One problem with rake is what one is raking to- certainly not the curved surface of the decks, certainly not with a boat on the trailer, possibly in the water with the normal loading of weight fore and aft?

After thinking about a baseline to rake to, I have come up with an imaginary plane formed by the stem fitting hole and the two side chainplate holes. This becomes a little more difficult to use when one considers that the cabin structure is in the way across the deck. Otherwise, claiming that someone has 6 inches of rake on the deck aft of the mast should not be a valid data point unless some other factors are supplied. But raking the mast to the imaginary plane aforementioned is a reproducible angle.

I was going to do some experiments with rake using a digital protractor from harbor freight, but I just lost interest and time. Be my guest.......

 

[Chris & Lenore]

The six inches is relative to the waterline (Teliki floats pretty close to it). This is the way it came and the side shrouds look to be original. When I removed the rake, I had to add to the back stay to get it connected. The forestay was shortened to accommodate a furler (previous owner).

But I do get what you are saying. The mast may not really have that much rake - it just appears that way. That idea may be supported by the fact the shrouds and back stay All seem to be the proper length and that the boat balances very well.

The attached pic shows what I mean - Teliki is flat on her waterline but the rake is quite noticeable. On the same trip we were anchored with Nelson (Tootsie 26S) and it had about half the visible rake. Both boats seemed to be riding about the same on the waterline.

 

[Jackdaw]

6 inches or rake? Why not.

Most boats are designed to have some (1-2 degrees) rake in the mast. And the standard rigging supplied with the boat will account for this. You can always measure it (with boat floating on her lines) with a line and a weight off the main halyard. Just measure from the back of the mast and be sure to subtract the length of the backstay crane if your rig has one.

On a boat like yours with a 28 foot mast, 6 inches of rake is only ONE degree.

One more thing, Adding X inches of rake doe NOT require X inches of additional forestay length. Recall your geometry, and remember the mast top is also swinging down as it goes back. You could very easily have 6 inches of rake.

 

[caguy]

On the Mac 25 the recommended is 3". Tried more but it rubbed on the pop top. I liked sailing with the top up but with a six inch rake it rubbed.

 

[oreana123]

6 inches or rake? Why not.

Most boats are designed to have some (1-2 degrees) rake in the mast. And the standard rigging supplied with the boat will account for this. You can always measure it (with boat floating on her lines) with a line and a weight off the main halyard. Just measure from the back of the mast and be sure to subtract the length of the backstay crane if your rig has one.

On a boat like yours with a 28 foot mast, 6 inches of rake is only ONE degree.

One more thing, Adding X inches of rake doe NOT require X inches of additional forestay length. Recall your geometry, and remember the mast top is also swinging down as it goes back. You could very easily have 6 inches of rake.

This is exactly the kind of unsubstantiated info that has no practical application to the original question or to the rig on a Macgregor 26c. Until someone can measure rake in relation to a common plane that we all accept, rake can only be described by the effect of changing what you got.

Jackdaw any change in forestay length (ie opening the forestay turnbuckle) will have to be opposed by the upper sidestays, in order to retension the rig. The stock vernier adjusters are often not capable of much effective change in length. Geometry or not, the real world effect of moving the mast fore or aft requires new wire lengths. :naughty:

 

[fwild3]

I'm new to this, but isn't helm the best measure? What difference does a few inches for or aft rake make if the helm is balanced?

 

[Jackdaw]

This is exactly the kind of unsubstantiated info that has no practical application to the original question or to the rig on a Macgregor 26c. Until someone can measure rake in relation to a common plane that we all accept, rake can only be described by the effect of changing what you got.

Jackdaw any change in forestay length (ie opening the forestay turnbuckle) will have to be opposed by the upper sidestays, in order to retension the rig. The stock vernier adjusters are often not capable of much effective change in length. Geometry or not, the real world effect of moving the mast fore or aft requires new wire lengths. :naughty:

EDIT - I just found out that C means 'classic'

No mater if you like it or not, that is the generally accepted way of measuring rake.

Of course you will have to re-turn the rig. The 25s is 3/4 fractional with aft swept spreaders. Adding half of a degree of rake will require a VERY SMALL adjustment to the shrouds, to make them shorter.

The OP said he HAD 6 inches of rake and the mast was tuned and helm balanced. I simply said that was possible. What part our our two statements do you really have a problem with? It seems that you are the one arguing against imperical data and reality, not me.

 

[Jackdaw]

I'm new to this, but isn't helm the best measure? What difference does a few inches for or aft rake make if the helm is balanced?

Yes.

 

[Chris & Lenore]

My only concern (not really a "concern") is that Teliki's mast has a very noticeable rake, especially when tied up beside another 26 (centerboard or daggerboard versions).

I have even moved crew around so the hulls were on the same for-aft plane.

And I do have less Bimini clearance.

But it sails just great, so I guess that's the proof that its "good where it is".

Still, I will definitely feel the "need to play" after the new main arrives.

Chris

 

[Sumner]

The OP has a 26S, not a 26C.....

Just a note so there is no confusion. The 26C refers to both the 26S and 26D which can also be called the classic's (C) vs. the newer X and now M. There never was actually a 26C. The rest I'll leave up to you guys .

I not sure what our rake actually is, but whatever it is it works for us,

Sum

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[Jackdaw]

Just a note so there is no confusion. The 26C refers to both the 26S and 26D which can also be called the classic's (C) vs. the newer X and now M. There never was actually a 26C. T

Sum,

Ah! That makes perfect sense. Thanks for pointing that out. Learn something new every day.

 

[Doc_holiday]

I am not sure there was a D and an S, I think those were all C models and over time they were addressed as to having a daggerboard or a swing keel is when the D and S came along. All the same I'm not sure the rake is going to make or break a Mac s or d.

 

[chp]

Hi Chris
Where did you order your new sail from? Mine is probably on its last year.

 

[Sumner]

Hi Chris
Where did you order your new sail from? Mine is probably on its last year.

Not Chris , but Bob Hussey who use to own a Mac put us on to Somerset Sails...

http://www.somersetsails.com/

.. and...

.. we bought our main and Genoa from Martin the owner. We have been very happy with them. The main is full battened and the Genoa is radial cut. His prices were as good or better as anyone else for something comparable. The sails are made in his loft in New York and are not from an other country.

We recently traded him our Genoa from the Endeavour for a lighter one and he put Sunbrella on it to match the rest of the new canvas on the Endeavour.

Call him and get a bid and talk about your options as he will work with you and set you up with something that fits your sailing. He also will take his time explaining those options. If we keep the Endeavour we will get a new main from him. We also bought our CDI furler from him for close to the lowest price I could find anywhere else but this site also has the CDI if you are looking for a furler also,

Sum

 

[Chris & Lenore]

I am in the process of ordering a new main. I plan to get it from JudyB (Hyde sails). I haven't seen a better price for the quality/configuration I want. BWY (for example) was almost $300 more once upgraded to the same sailcloth, batten and hardware configuration. And Judy's are custom made to my supplied dimensions.
But one thing I have learned - sailmakers are like mechanics - everyone has a "guy" they like and trust. I have not heard of many people having a bad experience, so to each, their own. What I liked about Judy is that she took the time to educate me about sail design, construction and materials - then told me to go look at the competition and decide for myself (this was at Havasu a couple years ago). Excellent sales strategy, if you have a good product.

Chris

 

[chp]

I was just wondering if you were going local or not for the sail. The only thing I don't like about ordering from the U.S. is the extra charges at customs. Every time I order anything of size from the U.S. I always get dinged with $40-$80 in border fees.

 

[katana750]

I was just wondering if you were going local or not for the sail. The only thing I don't like about ordering from the U.S. is the extra charges at customs. Every time I order anything of size from the U.S. I always get dinged with $40-$80 in border fees.

Hi

The border fees caught my attention. I need new sails next year. I buy from the states all the time. South east BC is not a sailing hotspot. I have only paid gst/hst in the past what other fees are there? Although I have never bought anything big before. Well not entirly true a did buy my boat there, but I just thought I paid hst

 

[Chris & Lenore]

You need to ensure it's shipped via USPS (they do ship larger items like sails). The government postal services "hand shake" between the two countries and do not charge brokerage fees. Private services like FedEx and others do charge a brokerage fee. As far as taxes go, I am not sure how that works. I have been charged HST on some items and nothing on others. Doesn't seem to matter what the item was or the price.

But- it still costs an extra $60 to ship to Canada. We are an hour from the border and will have it shipped to a MailBox plus in Niagara Falls and drive down to pick it up.

It's still more economical than either of the local sailmakers I got quotes from. They could provide the same quality and spec but at close to 50% more. While I prefer to support our local economy, I'm not made of money!

I do use the local Haarstick sailmaker in Hamilton for repairs and such.

Chris

 

[Sumner]

... will have it shipped to a MailBox plus in Niagara Falls and drive down to pick it up...

I think Somerset is only about 40 miles from Niagara?

Sum

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Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

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