How much heel are you comfortable with?

[PotomacDaysailer]

Has this topic by talked to death before?

I like it best heeled over about 20 degrees more or less. If it gets much more I usually ease the sheet or let the weather helm round up enough to luff the jib (not preferable though, if you're not careful or get a header at the same time you'll wind up with the jib sheeted aback and heeling over hard the other way, which causes an accelerated heartbeat). On my boat if you put the lee rail under, which is I think about 35 to 40 degrees, the weather helm is so strong you'll round up regardless. If there's enough wind that that would happen (or is happening) regularly then I reef.

One of these days I'm going to get an inclinometer so I can tell what he real heel is. I had one on my previous boat and found out that the actual angle is about half of what it feels like.

 

[dlochner]

Every boat is going to be a little different. Newer designs, like those on the current crop of sport boats, like to be sailed flat. Older designs like the old S&S and CCA rule designs like some heel because it makes the waterline longer.

The bigger the heel angle, the less effective the keel is in preventing leeway or side slipping. So while you may be going faster with some extra heel, you won't be making good progress towards your destination. There are 3 speed measures, speed through the water, speed over ground (SOG), and velocity made good (VMG). The most important one is VMG, this is the speed towards your destination.

On a run or very broad reach, SOG and VMG should be very similar assuming there is no current. As the boat turns to weather the SOG may stay relative unchanged but the VMG will decrease because you will be sailing a longer distance.

Speed through the water is mostly useful for seeing the effects of sail trim and heeling on boat speed.

To drift back to your original question, some designers provide indicators of the most efficient heel angle. On Sabres the cabin top slopes outboard. When that slope becomes horizontal, that is greatest heel angle, beyond that the boat is going sideways.

As you have noticed, the boat sails better at different heel angles. That angle will change based on wind speed, rig tuning, sail design and sail age. Don't worry about what the inclinometer says, listen to your boat, she'll let you know when she's happy.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

My boat sails at about 20-25 degrees almost always, in any wind. At 45 degrees the toe rail gets wet, and I reef

 

[rgranger]

Flatter is faster

 

[capta]

I always try to sail my boat on her lines, as I call it. Too much heel and she just slides sideways on her topsides (even with our ten-foot draft), and not enough heel and the sails/booms outweigh the wind pressure, deforming the sails. I have no idea of the degrees, but if the rub rail is underwater, then we are over too far.
And come on folks, it's just not comfortable being over on your ear for a couple of hours or more, is it?

 

[jon hansen]

Flatter is faster

.... and that goes for old CCA boats as well. it's an old wive's tale that the heeling of a cca boat creates the longer water line. they do create a longer water line but through different dynamics then heel. plus, the taller the rig stands the more 'projected' sail area there by more horse power. example: a cca boat with no heel on a run will increase it's waterline by squatting, my term, down between the bow wave and the stern wave into the trough between them.

 

[Ken Cross]

Ours likes between 10 and 15 degrees per our inclinometer. The Admiral objects when ihings start falling down in the cabin.

Ken

 

[jon hansen]

on flat bottomed boats, lasers or scows, heeling will be faster due to less wetted surface

 

[jon hansen]

with very light winds i will induce some heel to help create better sail shape.

 

[SG]

I suspect, unless you have C, E, or A scow, you would find angle of heel above 20 degrees actually is a comfort limit.

Absent dual rudders, control surfaces become increasingly ineffective, the comfort of crew and their ability to perform tasks become challenged a lot, and the boat goes slower.

Angle of heel is often overstated, like average slope on ski mountain.

I would guess the point at which the rail is in the water (having done it myself, as most of us) is probably closer to 30 degrees than 40.

 

[PotomacDaysailer]

Ours likes between 10 and 15 degrees per our inclinometer. The Admiral objects when ihings start falling down in the cabin.

Ken

LOL. I read somewhere, probably here on SBO, about the "squeal indicator": when the crew squeals, you're heeled too far.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

I would guess the point at which the rail is in the water (having done it myself, as most of us) is probably closer to 30 degrees than 40.

A I said- My rail goes under (per my inclinometer) at 45 degrees heel

Tehani is an old Seafarer Meridian- Phil Rhodes design, from 1961. 2500 pound cast iron keel, and a wine glass shape to the hull. ANY wind at all and she's at 15-20 degrees And locks in there. VERY good helm balance- I can steer with a finger tip

Sailing pic in Matagorda Bay

 

[dlochner]

LOL. I read somewhere, probably here on SBO, about the "squeal indicator": when the crew squeals, you're heeled too far.

When I was young lad sailing on the family's 8 ft El Toro, I took great delight in heeling the boat over as far as I could as I watched my younger brother scream and swear that we were going all die.

What siblings do to each other.

 

[jon hansen]

i do have an Ascow too. i claim i'm the fastest sailor on the bay.

 

[jon hansen]

i've achieved 180 degrees of heel with the Ascow. it was warm out. everyone was wearing life jackets. my 242 formula was standing by as a chase boat. i guess we were not uncomfortable. with 375 hp in the formula she righted easily. no guts, no glory

 

[shemandr]

I am currently sailing on a C&C 27 Mark V and last outing we had the #1 up in 18 kts. I find that cockpit difficult in the first place. But climbing up to hike out was a chore. I don't think we would have been slower with the #2 and we can snap that thing in with only a few cranks on the winch if that.

 

[jon hansen]

i carry bean bag chairs on the alden. takes all the lean out of the heel. i can store them in the long overhangs. the racers that crewed for me on the mac races poo hoo ed them at first. then i noticed them fighting over then during the race, i've often wondered why more sailors do not use them. we use them allot both day sailing and cruising. sitting on one on the high side, facing forward, reaching in high winds and big seas is spectacular.

 

[Davidasailor26]

When I was a little kid I would scream anytime the rail would get near the water. To make it worse when I was that age my parents seemed to like pushing it that far over. Once I learned to steer and saw how easy it is to head up to flatten the boat I was cured, and started to enjoy pushing the rail into the water. (Right around the time my parents seemed to learn better and wanted to sail flatter.)

Our O'Day in a gust would just heel more and more. As long as the rail was out of the water it was still pretty happy. In many years I never had it round up against the rudder. Our Beneteau with a newer flatter hull seems to very quickly go to about 15 degrees, then just kindof settles there as wind builds. If the wind builds too much after that it seems to tip over a corner and goes almost right to the rail in an uncomfortable way. Keeping it at the 15-20 degree level is certainly faster with that design.

 

[Tally Ho]

I don’t mind up to 30 degrees of heel or so, but the Admiral starts squawking at 10 degrees. Boat seems very happy and fast around 15 degrees. But we were out in 17 kt winds, with reefed main and partial Genoa, and sailed a respectable 6-7 knot run with a fairly flat boat.



Greg

 

[rgranger]

with very light winds i will induce some heel to help create better sail shape.

Yes ... me too