So here is my question. I've never owned a sailboat but I've always dreamed of sailing from Washington to Florida. I'm still a long way from this becoming a reality but I thought I would start doing some research. What size boat would you need for a family of six to sail that far comfortably? Thanks for you input!!
How much boat do I need????
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Suitable Sized Bluewater Sailboat for a Family of 6
Assuming you are talking two adults and four children, I would start at 38 feet in length and go up from there. If it was me and my family, I would be looking to spend a minimum of $200K upfront for a suitable boat for such a trip. I don't know what your tolerence is for risk and your standard of living that you want to maintain on board. (I assume you are planning to go from Washington state to Florida, not Washington DC to Florida.) I recommend you join a local yacht club and get involved in local learn to sail programs for you and all of your family. Vounteer to crew on other people's sailboats. Crew for other people in racing programs. Every yacht club worth joining has a sail racing program and has skippers hungry for crew. You learn more racing than you do just day sailing and local cruising. Get your kids in learn-to-sail programs designed for kids. You and your wife can go to sailing schools. Charter different boats. Get as much time out on the water sailing as you can night and day, fair weather or foul. My wife and I have learned much racing, particularly in high winds and waves. Read sailing books and sailing magazines. I recommend that you buy in stages. 1. First buy a boat like an 21' Ensign. They cost from $5K to $38K depending on age and condition. It has a big cockpit that can fit two adults and four kids. It a very safe family sailboat. I spent six years learning to sail and race on my Dad's Ensign. He had seven kids, though it was rare that more than six of us were on board at once. 2. Then move up to a boat like a 30' Catalina. They cost from $15K to $90K depending on age and condition. It can sleep two adults and four kids for long weekends and maybe up to a week or two. My wife and I have owned a 1987 Catalina 30, Mk II since 2001. We sail it and race it every week from early May to late October. We love the boat but I do not think it is suitable for the trip you are dreaming of doing. 3. Then buy your big bluewater boat for the trip to Florida. Plan on sailing on it for at least a year before you push off. Consider living on the boat for at least six months before you cast off to make sure it is the right boat for your family. Learn how to fix anything critical on board yourself. May God bless you and your family in following your dream.
Assuming you are talking two adults and four children, I would start at 38 feet in length and go up from there. If it was me and my family, I would be looking to spend a minimum of $200K upfront for a suitable boat for such a trip. I don't know what your tolerence is for risk and your standard of living that you want to maintain on board. (I assume you are planning to go from Washington state to Florida, not Washington DC to Florida.) I recommend you join a local yacht club and get involved in local learn to sail programs for you and all of your family. Vounteer to crew on other people's sailboats. Crew for other people in racing programs. Every yacht club worth joining has a sail racing program and has skippers hungry for crew. You learn more racing than you do just day sailing and local cruising. Get your kids in learn-to-sail programs designed for kids. You and your wife can go to sailing schools. Charter different boats. Get as much time out on the water sailing as you can night and day, fair weather or foul. My wife and I have learned much racing, particularly in high winds and waves. Read sailing books and sailing magazines. I recommend that you buy in stages. 1. First buy a boat like an 21' Ensign. They cost from $5K to $38K depending on age and condition. It has a big cockpit that can fit two adults and four kids. It a very safe family sailboat. I spent six years learning to sail and race on my Dad's Ensign. He had seven kids, though it was rare that more than six of us were on board at once. 2. Then move up to a boat like a 30' Catalina. They cost from $15K to $90K depending on age and condition. It can sleep two adults and four kids for long weekends and maybe up to a week or two. My wife and I have owned a 1987 Catalina 30, Mk II since 2001. We sail it and race it every week from early May to late October. We love the boat but I do not think it is suitable for the trip you are dreaming of doing. 3. Then buy your big bluewater boat for the trip to Florida. Plan on sailing on it for at least a year before you push off. Consider living on the boat for at least six months before you cast off to make sure it is the right boat for your family. Learn how to fix anything critical on board yourself. May God bless you and your family in following your dream.
NoBoatYet
only you can answer that question after you have joined a sailing club, learned to sail, read books or read this board for a year, and then chartered a few boats that you have gotten an idea about. The best idea for you is to search the sailing clubs and local marinas for a knowledgable sailor who is willing to tuitor you. I got lucky in that my dock neighbor turned out to be that guy. Try going to a marina with a few cases of beer in a cooler. Tell them you'll give out a beer per answer. You'll make friends quickly and learn a lot but it will just be the tip of the ice-burg but the important part is that you will get a feel for what you need to search for to learn. I bought my first boat on and uneducated guess but it was very cheap and I didn't loose a lot of money. I learned a little about sailing on it but didn't have the education until my second boat. I still didn't know much about boats when I bought the second boat and I would have to say that I got lucky but it still isn't the perfect boat for me. Buying a boat is so much more then finding the right size. There is so much more you need to learn about boats and the different capabilities of the different designs that you're not going to learn here with just one post. In otherwords, if you go buy a boat within the next 12 months, you bought a boat on an uneducated guess which usually ends up with you having the wrong boat for your needs. So please re-read this many times, especially the first paragraph. It will save you a lot of money and maybe your life.
only you can answer that question after you have joined a sailing club, learned to sail, read books or read this board for a year, and then chartered a few boats that you have gotten an idea about. The best idea for you is to search the sailing clubs and local marinas for a knowledgable sailor who is willing to tuitor you. I got lucky in that my dock neighbor turned out to be that guy. Try going to a marina with a few cases of beer in a cooler. Tell them you'll give out a beer per answer. You'll make friends quickly and learn a lot but it will just be the tip of the ice-burg but the important part is that you will get a feel for what you need to search for to learn. I bought my first boat on and uneducated guess but it was very cheap and I didn't loose a lot of money. I learned a little about sailing on it but didn't have the education until my second boat. I still didn't know much about boats when I bought the second boat and I would have to say that I got lucky but it still isn't the perfect boat for me. Buying a boat is so much more then finding the right size. There is so much more you need to learn about boats and the different capabilities of the different designs that you're not going to learn here with just one post. In otherwords, if you go buy a boat within the next 12 months, you bought a boat on an uneducated guess which usually ends up with you having the wrong boat for your needs. So please re-read this many times, especially the first paragraph. It will save you a lot of money and maybe your life.
Family Choices?
I was fortunate in my initial boating experiences in that friends took me sailing in returmn for helping them on some fixer upper tasks on their boats. Soon I knew I didn't want to depend on the generosity of others and I wanted to introduce my young sons to sailing. Hence the 'first boat'; big enough for three of us, big enough to handle normal days sailing on the Chesapeake and small enought to afford and to lliterally 'learn the ropes'. With our expanded family; a somewhat larger Hunter 28.5, we've enjoyed years of day trips, overnighters and a few week long trips. Realistically, not everyone wanted to remain involved to the same extent. As our four sons were growing up they obviously found their own interests. Only one son stayed in sailing, graduating thru his racing contacts to crew on larger and faster boats, now in nationally significant one design and SORC races. I'm glad we didn't move up in size years ago could because the 28.5 is still perfect for two of us and for me to single hand. Obviously, we could charter a 38 or 40 footer, if we had enough interested crew (family or friends).. Consider starting the journey as Mark suggested with smaller boats, not focusing too far ahead to ocean voyages.
I was fortunate in my initial boating experiences in that friends took me sailing in returmn for helping them on some fixer upper tasks on their boats. Soon I knew I didn't want to depend on the generosity of others and I wanted to introduce my young sons to sailing. Hence the 'first boat'; big enough for three of us, big enough to handle normal days sailing on the Chesapeake and small enought to afford and to lliterally 'learn the ropes'. With our expanded family; a somewhat larger Hunter 28.5, we've enjoyed years of day trips, overnighters and a few week long trips. Realistically, not everyone wanted to remain involved to the same extent. As our four sons were growing up they obviously found their own interests. Only one son stayed in sailing, graduating thru his racing contacts to crew on larger and faster boats, now in nationally significant one design and SORC races. I'm glad we didn't move up in size years ago could because the 28.5 is still perfect for two of us and for me to single hand. Obviously, we could charter a 38 or 40 footer, if we had enough interested crew (family or friends).. Consider starting the journey as Mark suggested with smaller boats, not focusing too far ahead to ocean voyages.
Franklin's right, but
you'll get quicker answers if you bring some Glenlivet...*! It does take time, but the beauty of "sailing lessons" of ANY kind is that you are out there sailing. Enjoy.
you'll get quicker answers if you bring some Glenlivet...*! It does take time, but the beauty of "sailing lessons" of ANY kind is that you are out there sailing. Enjoy.
A timely question. Can all six of you ride in a
car for twelve hours without the possibility of fratricide becoming an issue? The shorter the tolerance times, the larger the boat must be. I know a man and woman and a dog and a cat and a parakeet that peacefully coexisted on an O'Day 27 for four years, living aboard, traveling between Maryland and Florida three round trips and one winter in Hampton, Va. Then they got married.
car for twelve hours without the possibility of fratricide becoming an issue? The shorter the tolerance times, the larger the boat must be. I know a man and woman and a dog and a cat and a parakeet that peacefully coexisted on an O'Day 27 for four years, living aboard, traveling between Maryland and Florida three round trips and one winter in Hampton, Va. Then they got married.
Family of Six and a Hired Captain
This is an answer different from the previous. If you've never sailed before and want to make a trip like that, I'd recommend hiring an experienced sailor as a captain and get a boat he/she recommends. Why? It takes time to 'learn the ropes' and learn how to do the maintenance. There is always something that has to be fixed, even on a new boat but maybe only a little bit less, and soooo much maintenance to do that it's a full-time job keeping up with things. The hired captain should have in the job description a requirement for helping with maintenance, or teaching you how to do it. As for cost, I've seen boats for sale where the person bought the boat and spent $100-150K just in outfitting it for the cruise, and they were obviously fairly good boats to begin with. For a family you'll want good equipment and up-to-date equipment. Recommend reading "Cape Horn - One Man's Dream, One Woman's Nightmare". They started out with a family but by the time they reached Easter Island the last son jumped ship. Also, "Lost", The story of three people (husband, wife, and a brother-in-law) and their desperate struggle against time and the sea - and each other. They were from Tacoma also. Obviously one of them survived to write the book. As was said previously - "IT'S MORE THAN ABOUT SIZE"
This is an answer different from the previous. If you've never sailed before and want to make a trip like that, I'd recommend hiring an experienced sailor as a captain and get a boat he/she recommends. Why? It takes time to 'learn the ropes' and learn how to do the maintenance. There is always something that has to be fixed, even on a new boat but maybe only a little bit less, and soooo much maintenance to do that it's a full-time job keeping up with things. The hired captain should have in the job description a requirement for helping with maintenance, or teaching you how to do it. As for cost, I've seen boats for sale where the person bought the boat and spent $100-150K just in outfitting it for the cruise, and they were obviously fairly good boats to begin with. For a family you'll want good equipment and up-to-date equipment. Recommend reading "Cape Horn - One Man's Dream, One Woman's Nightmare". They started out with a family but by the time they reached Easter Island the last son jumped ship. Also, "Lost", The story of three people (husband, wife, and a brother-in-law) and their desperate struggle against time and the sea - and each other. They were from Tacoma also. Obviously one of them survived to write the book. As was said previously - "IT'S MORE THAN ABOUT SIZE"
Six - no boat ?
Do you already have the six, or is that also a future reality. If they're anything like my teens, you'll need another six feet for every year that passes by.
Do you already have the six, or is that also a future reality. If they're anything like my teens, you'll need another six feet for every year that passes by.
Noboat yet, Try this: rent a 29 foot travel
trailer and supply it with a ten day supply of food, water, snacks and sodas. Load everybody in and go on the road for a week but don't stop except for gas and oil. Your play area will be the top of the trailer when you do anchor for the night. If you happen to anchor near a lake then eveybody can go for a swim. But no running around or playing in the sand.
trailer and supply it with a ten day supply of food, water, snacks and sodas. Load everybody in and go on the road for a week but don't stop except for gas and oil. Your play area will be the top of the trailer when you do anchor for the night. If you happen to anchor near a lake then eveybody can go for a swim. But no running around or playing in the sand.
Some Advice
1, Wait till the 6 kids leave home and the pets die off, 2. Enrol the Admiral in some courses 3. If the Adniral does not pass her courses 4. Take the babe down the street. That should determine the length of your boat. Peter
1, Wait till the 6 kids leave home and the pets die off, 2. Enrol the Admiral in some courses 3. If the Adniral does not pass her courses 4. Take the babe down the street. That should determine the length of your boat. Peter
Great Advice Mark!
Thanks a lot for your response! I appreciate all the answers I've recieved so far even the um... not so helpful ones ;-) As I stated this is a goal that is years and years away and I realize that, but I was just curious how much boat would make a comfortable trip. I've already started looking into local yacht clubs and I think I'll take a class or two before I volunteer to crew for any racing. Thanks again for the advice.
Thanks a lot for your response! I appreciate all the answers I've recieved so far even the um... not so helpful ones ;-) As I stated this is a goal that is years and years away and I realize that, but I was just curious how much boat would make a comfortable trip. I've already started looking into local yacht clubs and I think I'll take a class or two before I volunteer to crew for any racing. Thanks again for the advice.
Ross,
I knew those folks on the east coast were a raccous bunch, but I think allowing a man, woman, dog, cat, and parakeet to marry is pushing things a tad...
I knew those folks on the east coast were a raccous bunch, but I think allowing a man, woman, dog, cat, and parakeet to marry is pushing things a tad...
You can't get here from there.
Not at a reasonable cost or effort anyways. I would suggest you enroll your mate and yourself in some sailing courses and perhaps purchase a boat of about 30'; learn how to sail it and learn how to cruise (navigation, power management, food stocking, communications, mechanical systems, projected consumption of fuel and water, weather factors, etc.) Take a few week long cruises along the coast with the kids. I think after doing that you will be in a better position to decide if you want to undertake such a trip and you will know what kind of boat you would need to do it comfortably.
Not at a reasonable cost or effort anyways. I would suggest you enroll your mate and yourself in some sailing courses and perhaps purchase a boat of about 30'; learn how to sail it and learn how to cruise (navigation, power management, food stocking, communications, mechanical systems, projected consumption of fuel and water, weather factors, etc.) Take a few week long cruises along the coast with the kids. I think after doing that you will be in a better position to decide if you want to undertake such a trip and you will know what kind of boat you would need to do it comfortably.
4 kids
Depending on age, but if the oldest is prepuberty and getting to be a handfull... DO IT NOW! Once they slip to the darkside it's a looong painfull way back. Little kids are great, they'll help with anything, sleep in a bunk with their sister, life is normal no matter the circumstance. Older kids are a challenge at least by my experience. Get to some classes right now. Learn as much as possible before it's time to shove off. You'll learn the rest along the way. But time is fleeting. Get as big and/or new as you can afford and go. Don't be afraid of a well maintained UPDATED older fiberglass boat. Bargains are out there.
Depending on age, but if the oldest is prepuberty and getting to be a handfull... DO IT NOW! Once they slip to the darkside it's a looong painfull way back. Little kids are great, they'll help with anything, sleep in a bunk with their sister, life is normal no matter the circumstance. Older kids are a challenge at least by my experience. Get to some classes right now. Learn as much as possible before it's time to shove off. You'll learn the rest along the way. But time is fleeting. Get as big and/or new as you can afford and go. Don't be afraid of a well maintained UPDATED older fiberglass boat. Bargains are out there.
Great Post "NoBoatYet"
Thanks for replying back to us and thanks for the opportunity to, um, "help"
The family really enjoyed me reading some of the responses - sorry some of them might not have been as helpful as they could have been, though. Knowing that the dream is a long, long, (one more 'long' than the original posting) way off is helpful to know. In this case I think that Skippers' post, item #1, has more merit now. (already used up my alotment of smily faces so I won't do another one). Don't take the replies personal - I think a lot of us needed an opportunity, as we near the end of the cruising season, to have some levity. Hopefully some helpful information for you: For what it's worth, in 1991 a couple sailed from Bainbridge Island down to Panama and up to Florida via the Cayman Islands in a Hunter 35.5 which is only a tad over 6-tons displacement, but they were very experienced sailors as they had made trips to Hawaii and Alaska previously in a Newport. Another family, don't know how many kids, 2?, left Poulsbo for the South Pacific, and they had, my opinion, marginal sailing skills, but their boat was a very roomy and heavy displacement 50-footer. I don't know how they're doing but I haven't heard any bad news about them so it must be okay. Another couple with two younger kids, say around 6 and 8, sailed from Poulsbo to Mexico, with one experienced crew, on a 40-ft Fuji and sold it. Another couple, "48º North" articles - "Selecting a Cruising Boat" by John Neal: http://www.48north.com/articles.htm John Neal made his first trip to the South Pacific when he was quite young and his book is an interesting read. Another "48º North" article by some friends of ours from Bainbridge Island are sailing on a Choy Lee 41 with their daughter, one child, read their article about Bikini Atoll at http://www.48north.com/jul_2006/bikini.htm. They are very experienced cruisers, having made the South Pacific-Hawaii trip several years previously in a 32-ft full-keel double-ender. They aborted continuing the trip in Fiji and sailed back home via Hawaii. Reason for aborting the trip was because the boat was essentially too small and uncomfortable but that was also before their daughter was born. Gary has an engineering background and is an extreemly inovative and creative guy when it comes to boat projects and is also very adept at hands-on work with their boat. Monthly magazine which is great for Cruisers, or cruiser wana-bees: http://www.latitude38.com/ This can be found for 'free' at some retail outles. West Marine typically chargers a $1 up here to cover shipping. Latitude 38 "First Timers Guide to Mexico": http://www.baja-haha.com/Guide/index.html Hope this is more helpful.
Thanks for replying back to us and thanks for the opportunity to, um, "help"
The family really enjoyed me reading some of the responses - sorry some of them might not have been as helpful as they could have been, though. Knowing that the dream is a long, long, (one more 'long' than the original posting) way off is helpful to know. In this case I think that Skippers' post, item #1, has more merit now. (already used up my alotment of smily faces so I won't do another one). Don't take the replies personal - I think a lot of us needed an opportunity, as we near the end of the cruising season, to have some levity. Hopefully some helpful information for you: For what it's worth, in 1991 a couple sailed from Bainbridge Island down to Panama and up to Florida via the Cayman Islands in a Hunter 35.5 which is only a tad over 6-tons displacement, but they were very experienced sailors as they had made trips to Hawaii and Alaska previously in a Newport. Another family, don't know how many kids, 2?, left Poulsbo for the South Pacific, and they had, my opinion, marginal sailing skills, but their boat was a very roomy and heavy displacement 50-footer. I don't know how they're doing but I haven't heard any bad news about them so it must be okay. Another couple with two younger kids, say around 6 and 8, sailed from Poulsbo to Mexico, with one experienced crew, on a 40-ft Fuji and sold it. Another couple, "48º North" articles - "Selecting a Cruising Boat" by John Neal: http://www.48north.com/articles.htm John Neal made his first trip to the South Pacific when he was quite young and his book is an interesting read. Another "48º North" article by some friends of ours from Bainbridge Island are sailing on a Choy Lee 41 with their daughter, one child, read their article about Bikini Atoll at http://www.48north.com/jul_2006/bikini.htm. They are very experienced cruisers, having made the South Pacific-Hawaii trip several years previously in a 32-ft full-keel double-ender. They aborted continuing the trip in Fiji and sailed back home via Hawaii. Reason for aborting the trip was because the boat was essentially too small and uncomfortable but that was also before their daughter was born. Gary has an engineering background and is an extreemly inovative and creative guy when it comes to boat projects and is also very adept at hands-on work with their boat. Monthly magazine which is great for Cruisers, or cruiser wana-bees: http://www.latitude38.com/ This can be found for 'free' at some retail outles. West Marine typically chargers a $1 up here to cover shipping. Latitude 38 "First Timers Guide to Mexico": http://www.baja-haha.com/Guide/index.html Hope this is more helpful.
And,,,,,
after you've done it you'll never forget all of the adventures. You may stop with just one trip or continue for the rest of your life, but you won't do anything more fulfilling. Unless you can score a trip to outer space.
after you've done it you'll never forget all of the adventures. You may stop with just one trip or continue for the rest of your life, but you won't do anything more fulfilling. Unless you can score a trip to outer space.
read
ZGo to the library and read. There are tons of books on sailing, adventure, etc. Nexxt: Did the trip down south on a 43'Palmer Johnson raceboat. My 37' Irwin had more room in it. Then again, we met a couple with a trimaran in South Carolina and that hing had tons of room. ANd we met a church group that had a monster sailboat with enough room for 6 and then another 20. They got it as a donation, so you might want tostart a church, legitimize it, and look for a free boat via donation. Then again, we met a family that was on a 40 something steel hull two master. Awesome, with tons of room, and, the more sails, the easer to handle. Then there were the seven guys from Toronto going down in a 30'er. By the time they hit the Great Dismal Swamp they were ready to kill each other. Well some of them were. How long do you thing the trip would take? What do you plan to do after you arrive? Stay there or move back? The kids might want to finish up in a regular high school, which menas finding a place with high school. Read a story of a family of 6 or 7 that sailed a 37' Irwin around the world, then sold it and moved to the mountains in Colorado. Just remember, it's not a destination, but a new way of looking at thngs.
ZGo to the library and read. There are tons of books on sailing, adventure, etc. Nexxt: Did the trip down south on a 43'Palmer Johnson raceboat. My 37' Irwin had more room in it. Then again, we met a couple with a trimaran in South Carolina and that hing had tons of room. ANd we met a church group that had a monster sailboat with enough room for 6 and then another 20. They got it as a donation, so you might want tostart a church, legitimize it, and look for a free boat via donation. Then again, we met a family that was on a 40 something steel hull two master. Awesome, with tons of room, and, the more sails, the easer to handle. Then there were the seven guys from Toronto going down in a 30'er. By the time they hit the Great Dismal Swamp they were ready to kill each other. Well some of them were. How long do you thing the trip would take? What do you plan to do after you arrive? Stay there or move back? The kids might want to finish up in a regular high school, which menas finding a place with high school. Read a story of a family of 6 or 7 that sailed a 37' Irwin around the world, then sold it and moved to the mountains in Colorado. Just remember, it's not a destination, but a new way of looking at thngs.
I second what Doug said -
don't delay. I got our family into sailing a little late in the game - I would love to do some extended cruising and think it would have been great experience for the kids, but two of the three are teenagers, and can't imagine being stuck on a boat for weeks or months. They do enjoy an occasional weekend trip or daysail, but I think the earlier you get them out there, the better. I realize that doesn't address your original question, but I think that's something you will have to answer - I would get out and look at as many boats as possible. For both of the boats we have purchased, I spent months looking online, and looked at a few dozen boats personally.
don't delay. I got our family into sailing a little late in the game - I would love to do some extended cruising and think it would have been great experience for the kids, but two of the three are teenagers, and can't imagine being stuck on a boat for weeks or months. They do enjoy an occasional weekend trip or daysail, but I think the earlier you get them out there, the better. I realize that doesn't address your original question, but I think that's something you will have to answer - I would get out and look at as many boats as possible. For both of the boats we have purchased, I spent months looking online, and looked at a few dozen boats personally.
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