How mch is too much?

[Ken13569]

Yesterday we turned around and headed back home. We were bound for Kingston WA from Everett WA. We had a south wind, and the waves started building up just about Mukelteo. Before we turned around we were only able to maintain just under 3 knots with full throttle and I didn't want to sail because It would require us to go to weather diagnally and I wanted all the freeboard I could get. the waves were between 5 and 6 feet and the boat was pitching violently enough I decided to turn and run. The waves were almost random, but the biggest ones were spaced such that we would dive the bow under at the base of each oncoming wave. The hatch above the V birth and the solar vent were letting lots of water into the V birth when under water. I did find it interesting that I only measured about 11 or 12 mph of apparent wind (the fetch was about 15 miles plus and the channel is deep.) *

I've traveled this route quite a few times, but never seen it this rough. No SCA were posted and the prediction was winds S 5 to 15.

So how much is too much?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Wind and waves, take your choice. Sometimes the winds too much and comes up fast but the sea is flat. Sometimes you get what you described. It constantly amazes me, however, to see sailboats motoring directly into waves. It is the worst possible point for the boat, 'cuz it does exactly what you said: green water over the bow and constant sickening motion. Sailboat hulls were meant to be sailed diagonally to the waves: just think of sailing closehauled. Even if you didn't want to sail, if you'd cracked off going directly into the waves you'd have had a much more comfortable ride. Try it next time.

Answer to your question? When YOU say so.

 

[Benny]

Just figure it this way; you are not getting paid for the work so whenever you decide it is enough, it is. The only ones that are compelled to put up with uncomfortable conditions when they don't want to are those delivery captains and crew on a tight schedule. When powerful storm are out to sea they may churn the waters in coastal areas even though these areas may be experiencing mild conditions. I have gotten to the point where if we cannot sustain a VMG of at least 3 knots, we stay put.

 

[dscribner]

Rule number one: NOAA is clueless. Don't trust the prediction. I check it EVERY time, the night before. We sail almost every weekend from late May to late October. They have about a 20% accuracy rate. Considering the billions spent in employees, satellites and computers, that is deplorable. They get dawn, dusk and tides pretty good though. They've had the wind 180 degrees out, and 15 knots different. When you sail by that it's not a good thing.

 

[zeehag]

Not One Accurte Assessment is given noaas weather for a reason--there are many ways to explain the weather coming at ye-- and noaa manages to wrongly say it most of the time.
as for facing a sea--donot take them directly face on. you want to face them at 7/8 or 3/4 angle. not 90 degrees to sea. 60 degrees or other such angle..
to hit them bashing head on is suicidal and soaking wet. i hate soaking wet sails. i live on left coast also--seas get to being 50 ft. then i wont go out. i have sailed in 30 ft following seas in pacific --isnt that big a deal. but facing the seas is not fun. is why they call it bashing -- any uphill sailing is a bash. is most difficult point of sail an dis tough on boat and crew. good luck. try a different angle to the seas next time. i think you will find it a lot more fun. bashing is not fun. bashing is a good way to tire fast of sailing, as it is a wet and nasty ride. in some places where the rivers meet the seas, there is a lot of confusion in the seas...they come from many places atone time. difficult to handle--motor sailing is often a goood alternative to simply sailing---but dont face the seas face on--makes the ride most uncomfortable. take them at an angle.

 

[RichH]

For me its not a question of how much; but, rather how 'violent'.

Ive got a boat that can and has handled F9-F10 for long periods of time. What really makes me tend to head for 'home' or the nearest port is: 'quartering gusts, and confused seas ---- one moment happy as a clam and the the next moment being slammed or 'headed' by 'large angles' of wind/wave change .... ie.: 'very unstable' and 'overlapping' winds and multi-direction waves - even down in the fresh to moderate range. Put all the different winds and differing seas converging on top of you ..... and you get real tired, real fast.
Even being hove-to in such conditions is 'very' tiring or nigh-on nearly impossible. Anyway, thats my definition of 'too much'.

Ditto in moderate-fresh conditions (as above) in my lightweight 'ILYA scow'.

 

[RichH]

Rule number one: NOAA is clueless. Don't trust the prediction.

Boy oh boy do you have that right.
1. If you listen to the NOAA forecasts for 'too much' you often miss a LOT of good sailing.
2. If you listen to the NOAA forecasts for 'just right' you can sometimes - get BLAMMO.

For #1 above, I perceive/surmise that NOAA has been 'litigated' too much and now seemingly give 'conservative or understated forecasts purposely .... meaning if its less than predicted it becomes less of a liability risk. (too many lawyers, not enough recipes). Ill use or listen-in to a weather router over NOAA any day.

For #2 predicting marine weather is predicting 'chaos' ... and thats a crap-shoot. Even the weather routers get it 'wrong' but not quite as 'often' as NOAA.

 

[JVB]

I went flying one December day with an instrument flying instructor. He checked with the aviation weather people less than 30 minutes before our departure. Within 15 minutes ice was accumulating on the wings. That was not in the forecast much less the current conditions report. We managed to make it to an alternate airport with nothing more than a bad scare. Now I really don't trust weather forecasts.

 

[dscribner]

Rich,

You ROCK Man! That's what I've been saying for years! Weather forecast/2=actual. They specifically overstate conditions MOST of the time to limit liability.

 

[zeehag]

Rich,

You ROCK Man! That's what I've been saying for years! Weather forecast/2=actual. They specifically overstate conditions MOST of the time to limit liability.

our particular experiences with noaa weather was opposite that-- clear and slight chance of rain---- we got severe thunderstorms..LOL...

 

[dscribner]

That is the other side of the piece-of-eight! 5 to 8 knots forecast W-NW on Sunday. So on Saturday we went for a nice sail and anchored at a favorite island. Sunday, 8:30 AM, winds build to around 25 knots, E-NE, straight into the cove. It was a nightmare, well, a disturbing muse, to get home. It was like surfing a 4000 lb long board.

 

[Winkfish]

our particular experiences with noaa weather was opposite that-- clear and slight chance of rain---- we got severe thunderstorms..LOL...

Same down here. When NOAA says 10-15 kn, expect at least 20-25.

 

[Bob S]

dscribner,

We had much the same experience leaving Oak Bluffs Sunday around 10am. Winds were crazy all night. I watched a few boats leaving and saw the tops of their masts swinging wildly! Needles to say there was a lot of anxiety thinking what was out there. NOAA's forecast didn't come close! What we experienced where the type of wave that you see when sitting on the beach except 10' tall. I did as Stu recommended and motored at 45-60° angle through them. It was a very wet ride. According to my chartplotter I was running around 3 kts SOG. What scared me the most was knowing I had to run parallel with them for about 10 miles but there was no way I was going to turn around and head back in. The motion of the waves changed when I hit deeper water. I set a reefed jib to make a more comfortable ride remembering reading a RichH post and Don Guillette's book. My wife refuses to go out again...at least this season. Don't know for sure but I think we were experiencing 25-30 kts steady. I left only because they were forecasting gust of 40 today!
I'm not sure how this season has been for everyone but besides being sunny & hot it felt like we either had no wind or it was blowing like crazy. Not very easy for a new sailor to practice his newly learned skills from a book!

 

[Stu Jackson]

Bob, good for you. Now you know the boat can take it, right? All you have to do is get the crew to catch up to the boat!

I've had the same issues, and my wife doesn't like the hard stuff, so when it's gnarly she says "Jib only" and it works. Saves me hassling with the mainsail cover! She now deals quite well with The Slot in very windy conditions that we see here, as most of you know. Her motto: "A shot before the Slot!"

Of course, with other crew we've raced with full sails in conditions the family crew wouldn't ever consider dealing with.

While it may have been a wet ride going diagonally to the waves, at least the water only came over on one side, not both (if you'd been steaming directly into the waves).