how many of you have had keel pivot bolt/bushing failure?

hawk232

hawk232

.
Apr 1, 2010
398
Cal 33 and Sea Pearl 21 . Crystal River, FL
I am trying to decide if I should keep sailing my boat as is in attempts to decide if I like sailing enough to really go at restoring it, or if sailing is just a passing phase.

That being said, the keel pivot bolt is eating away at me, not knowing the condition that is... my bolt has been completely fiberglassed over so aside from the normal problems associated with checking it out, I also have to reveal the bolt itself then repair all of the work when done.

how many of you have actually HAD a failure? not cousin, brothers uncle knows a guy that had one fail, but have actually seen with your own two eyes, a failure?
 
centerline

centerline

.
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
replacing the keel bolt is maintenance, NOT restoration...

and you probably wont find anyone here that has had a failure, but many that has insured against it.... a real sailor wont let his keel be lost due to lack of maintenance on his boat;)

when and if, it happens on an older boat, its unlikely you will find a replacement part.... so it makes the boat worthless as a sailboat....

those that have any care at all in their passion for the boat and what it means to them in terms of recreation and freedom on the water, will take the couple of hours and replace the bolt and inspect the hole in the keel... not only does this insure the keel wont be lost, but it gives peace of mind in knowing you wont have any surprises..

if the bolt is glassed over, it will be easy to gently grind away enough to expose the bolt, then glass it over again if you decide thats the way to go, or get the rubber seals and cup washers and seal it with them......

take care of your boat so you can give yourself an honest go at seeing if you like sailboating, because if you are sailing in a tub that has problems and the keel falls off, im pretty sure you wont like it... just my opinion:D
 
rgranger

rgranger

.
Jan 19, 2010
12,584
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Re: how many of you have had keel pivot bolt/bushing failure

I have a Balboa 26. I bought it last Spring. And like you the keel bolt was glassed over. It was a huge job to lift the boat onto a cradle, drop the 1200# keel. The 7/8" ss bolt was bent as was the bushing. So I'm very glad I replaced mine.


I dropped my keel because I also needed to do some repairs to the keel itself. You might be able to just jack it to take the pressure off of the bolt and then slide it out for inspection. If it is bent, I'd replace it... and a new bolt is only $20 so just go ahead and replace it for peace of mind.

I have an entire folder full of the pics I took during the process and would be happy to send them to you if you think it would be helpful.
 
fred1diver

fred1diver

.
Aug 17, 2013
1,024
Pearson P30 202 Ottawa/Gatineau
rgranger said:
I have an entire folder full of the pics I took during the process and would be happy to send them to you if you think it would be helpful.
Click to expand
I would love to see those pics, I have to tackle mine this spring and I have no idea how to do it
thanks in advance
FRED
 
W

watercolors II

.
Dec 23, 2008
771
Catalina 22 Central Penna.
Use the boat, learn to sail, don't worry about the keel!

I've been sailing on an inland lake for 22 years that has about 30 boats from 19 to 28 feet in length, mostly old ones and all manufactures, not one of them has lost their keel in that timespan.

Learning to sail is very easy, to become a very good sailor is a life long experience. I go sailing almost every weekend and I still learn something new almost every outing and as said, I've been doing this for 22 years.
 
rgranger

rgranger

.
Jan 19, 2010
12,584
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
fred1diver said:
I would love to see those pics, I have to tackle mine this spring and I have no idea how to do it
thanks in advance
FRED
Click to expand
Here are some pics. I have a lot more if you want to see something specific let me know and I can send them off list.

r
 

Attachments

B

Benny17441

.
May 24, 2004
7,174
CC 30 South Florida
Re: how many of you have had keel pivot bolt/bushing failure

There are no guarantees in life but the chances of your keel dropping and the boat floundering are quite low. The keel pivot bolts are generally made out of stainless steel and are usually stronger than the iron keel. The keel pivot joint is prone to corrosion but the "keel slap" or side to side motion it would generate would likely damage the keel trunk support way before it dropped. We should also consider that the keel is also attached to the boat by the cable that is used to raise and lower it. Even if the keel failed this cable may hold ballast under the boat to help keep it upright. I would be more concerned about running aground with the keel in a locked position or excessive "keel slap" in rough seas as either could damage the keel trunk and allow water intrusion. Now if it would ease your mind you could consider adding flotation to hull either in the form of foam blocks or inflatable bladders. I guess my point is that the probability of occurrence and the magnitude of the ultimate consequences are not high or serious enough to prevent me from taking the boat sailing. There is a premise that good sailors usually develop from sailing in small boats. The Balboa/Ensenada 20 is a good sailer and a good boat to learn in.
 
hawk232

hawk232

.
Apr 1, 2010
398
Cal 33 and Sea Pearl 21 . Crystal River, FL
Re: how many of you have had keel pivot bolt/bushing failure

thanks everybody, I appreciate the responses!!!

I do feel, however, that implying that I am not a real sailor because I am questioning the urgency of checking the keel bolt is a bit ignorant. have you ever gone a mile over the recommended oil change interval in your car? a mile over the recommended tire rotation schedule?? guess you "aren't a real driver"! kind of a ridiculous notion isn't it? I do, however, appreciate the core of your message, once dissected, that you believe I should check it!

also, fwiw (not that I need to explain myself) I was not implying that the keel bolt was part of a restoration... I was stating that I didn't know if I would sail the boat for a short while then sell it (no need to check the bolt) or sail the boat a while then restore it (meaning that I am keeping it and I would HAVE to check the bolt for my piece of mind)

rgranger the pics are great! I would be particularly interested in any that you have of your "cradle" and of putting the boat on the cradle. I have a basic idea but looking at other peoples setups always helps!!
 
caguy

caguy

.
Sep 22, 2006
4,004
Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30 Marina del Rey
hawk232 said:
I am trying to decide if I should keep sailing my boat as is in attempts to decide if I like sailing enough to really go at restoring it, or if sailing is just a passing phase.

That being said, the keel pivot bolt is eating away at me, not knowing the condition that is... my bolt has been completely fiberglassed over so aside from the normal problems associated with checking it out, I also have to reveal the bolt itself then repair all of the work when done.

how many of you have actually HAD a failure? not cousin, brothers uncle knows a guy that had one fail, but have actually seen with your own two eyes, a failure?
Click to expand
I have only heard of one keel being lost. I'm not sure that it was the bolt however. There are plenty of pictures of elongated holes in the keels and keels that are severely disintegrated. Here is a link to the thread where Wendysboat lost her keel in the ocean.

http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=677615&highlight=mrmikey64 keel
 
Gene Neill

Gene Neill

.
Sep 30, 2013
3,595
1988 Catalina 22 North Florida
Re: how many of you have had keel pivot bolt/bushing failure

The handful of stories I've read of catastrophic failures almost all involved pretty extreme neglect, extended saltwater mooring, etc. And probably half of them involved the winch and/or lifting cable, which hopefully you could replace without much hassle.

BTW, does you keel clunk around a lot?
 
hawk232

hawk232

.
Apr 1, 2010
398
Cal 33 and Sea Pearl 21 . Crystal River, FL
Re: how many of you have had keel pivot bolt/bushing failure

nope, no keel clunk at all that I have ever heard! the cable appears to be in great shape with no frays or kinks. that was the first think I checked the first time I had the boat out as a cable failing while the keel is mostly up would almost certainly be catastrophic!
 
rgranger

rgranger

.
Jan 19, 2010
12,584
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Re: how many of you have had keel pivot bolt/bushing failure

There was a story on this forum (I think it was in trailer sailors). A guy took a Mac 25 out for its maiden voyage and on his first time out the keel fell off. He was on here asking about how to fabricate a new one and eventually parted out the boat. I purchased a hatch cover for $50 from the guy.

So... I'm with Hawk on this one.... I really don't understand the attitude that you are silly for checking over the mechanical parts of your boat. I've restored 6 old sailboats and I'm working on a Rhodes 22 right now. The FIRST thing I want to look at is the keel bolt. Actually it is now my practice to just replace it. They are less than $20. Next I examine the chain plates, rudder gudgeon and the standing rigging. If I'm going to take my kids out past the sight of land on a boat, I want to know that they will be safe.
 
Douglast

Douglast

.
Jul 18, 2009
274
marine clipper 21 ft santa ana Southern Lakes,Yukon
Re: how many of you have had keel pivot bolt/bushing failure

I replace my Keel bolt.

as well

For keel clunk I just install the cut ends of rubber fairleads into the keel trunk with a good chamfer facing the oncoming dropping keel.
I installed them with good marine glue.

zero issues with passing boats and their wake when sitting idle...the clunk is now a very dull soft thud.
 
Gene Neill

Gene Neill

.
Sep 30, 2013
3,595
1988 Catalina 22 North Florida
Douglast said:
I replace my Keel bolt.

as well

For keel clunk I just install the cut ends of rubber fairleads into the keel trunk with a good chamfer facing the oncoming dropping keel.
I installed them with good marine glue.

zero issues with passing boats and their wake when sitting idle...the clunk is now a very dull soft thud.
Click to expand
That's an intriguing idea! Any further details you can share, or pics of the project?
 
MrBill_FLL

MrBill_FLL

.
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
Re: how many of you have had keel pivot bolt/bushing failure

Whats the boat worth, and can you afford to walk away from it, SHOULD you loose the keel. -that is the critical question!


Personally, I would want to have some idea of the condition. lift it up on a sling, lower keel, and try to lift it of move it about with a few strong guys, or mechanical advantage.

Centerline is right, IF you are unlucky and loose it, its most likely a parts boat.

there were a few people that posted on the mac board about lost keels. they would post a few threads/ responses and never heard from again. (AFAIK)
 
M

Modslot

.
Feb 10, 2014
10
macgregor 25 Vancouver
Re: how many of you have had keel pivot bolt/bushing failure

If your boat is a Macgergor then I have some helpful info for you.
Brian.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Top Bottom