How does this happen?

Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
Perhaps the Elbe was already in trouble, the captain and crew were engaged in other emergent issues, and they failed to see the cargo carrier. It is amazing how much time can pass when you are in trouble.
 
Jun 10, 2017
174
Catalina 1980 Catalina 30 Mk II John's Pass / Tampa Bay
"BIGGER HAS THE RIGHTAWAY," this motto is in the captain's Course booklet.
Smaller vessels are more maneuverable then larger vessels.

Until the facts are in, here are some of my first thoughts:
1. Thrill seeking, going close to the ship to excite the passengers.
2. Inattentive, not having a lookout and/or being distracted by passengers.
3. Alcohol and/or maybe drugs.
4. Steering system failure or malfunction.
5. Any or all of the above.
I wonder what the cause will be.

One example I witnessed, was of a sail boat under sail in a Tampa Bay narrow shipping channel with dog legs on the STBD side refusing to move out of the way as he actually thought he HAD the right-a-way while the ship kept sounding the 5 danger blasts over-n-over. At the same time a ship 1/4 mile down stream was coming up the channel.

The down channel ship had to stay on the STBD side. When it passed the sailboat, they did a side-by-side bump, whereas the sailboat did a hard right turn to STBD & out of the channel to immediately go hard aground. Tampa Bay can be very shallow in different areas.

As I stated in the beginning, "BIGGER HAS THE RIGHTAWAY."
 
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Jun 11, 2011
1,243
Hunter 41 Lewes
I have a quick fix, all vessels must maintain a speed equal to or less than the slowest vessel in sight. Sight meaning with any means, visual, radar, or AIS. Then the playing field would be more equal and vessels would have more time to make moves. Don't bother arguing the obvious, not fair, blah blah, it would be safer. Isn't the COLREGS about safe? Just an over the top thought. Not looking to discuss it.
BTW shame about the loss of a historical vessel and injuries to the crew and passengers.
 
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Apr 11, 2018
71
Hunter 340 Dowry Creek, NC
I hear elsewhere the sailboat missed its tack and in a flash was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I've yet to hear how the miss occurred, and of course we may not until the insurance and legal wrangling is done.
 
May 17, 2004
5,027
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
all vessels must maintain a speed equal to or less than the slowest vessel in sight. Sight meaning with any means, visual, radar, or AIS. Then the playing field would be more equal and vessels would have more time to make moves. Don't bother arguing the obvious, not fair, blah blah, it would be safer. Isn't the COLREGS about safe?
I’m not convinced. Two vessels closing at 7 knots each could do plenty of damage. Even two vessels closing at 2 knots could do damage. Maybe even more damage if they’re below the speed for one to maintain steerage. And what of vessels at anchor or drift fishing? Do they limit everyone in the area to one knot? And extending it to everyone within AIS range means, for example, every ship on half the Chesapeake needs to go the same speed.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
How does this happen?

Human error.

Just like in 99% of all accidents. Pure math and stats play as well. Even if a 'rule' raises the success rate of a maneuver to 99.999%, run the scenario 1 million times and you have 10 accidents.
 
Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
Sirens perhaps?
I had a collision experience on a German river also back in the 60's. Our class in elementary school took a field trip on a tourist boat down the Rhine river. My dad was stationed in Gelnhausen. Anyway, we were just below the Lorelei, the song was playing over the speakers, and then we felt a large bump. We had collided with a coal barge! Our boat began to list and we were evacuated onto another boat and continued on. The legend is that the siren of the Lorelei distracted ships onto the rocks. Coincidence?
 
Aug 2, 2005
1,155
Pearson 33-2 & Typhoon 18 Seneca Lake
Ich glaube die Wellen verschlingen
am Ende Schiffer und Kahn
das hat mit Ihrem gesingen (found a copy; the word should be "singen")
Die Lorelei getan!

With apologies to Frau Hartenstein, my 11th grade German teacher. BTW.....I do remember most of the earlier lines of the poem.
 
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capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
Is this really the Wander Bird from Sausalito? If so, that would be a true loss. I actually lived aboard Wander Bird in the City Marina in Sausalito for a time. She had one of the most beautiful handcrafted interiors I've ever seen.
Anyway, from what I read, the sailboat was trying to tack and failed, perhaps by a current against the bow scenario (the ship was downbound). If memory serves, she had an offset prop, as many vessels built before engine installations were common on small sailing vessels, so it is possible, even with the engine in gear, she just couldn't tack (turn) in time, nor did she have the power to back away from the encounter, and was run down. Sounds most plausible to me.
Given that scenario, then the discussion becomes what would you have done in those circumstances to prevent the collision?
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rt.com/news/461453-container-ship-sank-schooner/amp/
Here's another article that suggests the No. 5 tacked into the path of the oncoming vessel.

-Will (Dragonfly)
Take everything from RT Today with a large grain of salt. RT is Russia Today a Russian propaganda organization. They published an article a few weeks ago about the "dangers" of the new 5G cell transmitters. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/12/science/5g-phone-safety-health-russia.html

RT's goal is to create dissension in the US and to exploit it politically to Putin's advantage.
 
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Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
That is what I thought. They were in an emergent situation and simply got caught in the jaws of the diminishing time and space.
 
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Jun 11, 2011
1,243
Hunter 41 Lewes
I’m not convinced. Two vessels closing at 7 knots each could do plenty of damage. Even two vessels closing at 2 knots could do damage. Maybe even more damage if they’re below the speed for one to maintain steerage. And what of vessels at anchor or drift fishing? Do they limit everyone in the area to one knot? And extending it to everyone within AIS range means, for example, every ship on half the Chesapeake needs to go the same speed.
remember the part of my post where I said "not looking to discuss it" That means don't quote me and don't bring it up, keep it to your self or make a definitive statement without referring to my statement. Use your brain not mine. Oh and don't discuss this either. thanks
 
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
remember the part of my post where I said "not looking to discuss it" That means don't quote me and don't bring it up, keep it to your self or make a definitive statement without referring to my statement. Use your brain not mine. Oh and don't discuss this either. thanks
Hold on... fair play here is that you presented a comment in a public forum. You cannot control it once it is released. If you do not want a reply or counterpoint, do not present your point. What you are proposing is the privilege of a one-way boundary... “I can comment but you can’t” kind of arrangement. You know, “Green punchbuggy. No punchbacks!”
 
Jun 11, 2011
1,243
Hunter 41 Lewes
Hold on... fair play here is that you presented a comment in a public forum. You cannot control it once it is released. If you do not want a reply or counterpoint, do not present your point. What you are proposing is the privilege of a one-way boundary... “I can comment but you can’t” kind of arrangement. You know, “Green punchbuggy. No punchbacks!”
Not from my point of view. The point is to have a point of view not argue against mine! If that's all you're here for you are not contributing. You are correct that I can not control it but on the other hand I'm not interested in what you think about my comment, I'm interested in what you think about the original topic. If you don't have a thought, then you're not interesting at all.
Oh and I don't really care what you think about this either. LOL
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
The bottom line is that in any open discussion forum, this one included, you control your own posts and no one else's. No one but the moderator can make or enforce rules about replies. If someone wants to respond to your post, there's nothing you can do about it.
All true, but the irony is that SBO it the most over-moderated forum on the internet. The cyber-nannies are watching this thread like hawks, fingers poised on the BAN or DELETE button.
 
Oct 30, 2017
183
Catalina c 27 Lake Pueblo
Well that’s just saying that only your opinion matters. (Even if factually it is wrong)

And I can’t be the 1st person to tell you this, but that simply is not the case.

On here...and in life try listening to other’s thoughts and opinions, you may expand your knowledge and learn something.

Heck even on something that truly is opinion based you may even change yours.


Knowledge and personal growth are something we should all strive towards. If you close yourself off from others knowledge and opinions you will never make progress here.


Oh, one more thing... that does not mean that you always have to agree with others but you should hear them with an open mind then make an EDUCATED decision.