Man that's a shame, I hunted every possible way to find this or even a similar tool on the App Store. There's nothin
how does one define a "blown out" sail?
- Thread starter RussC
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Huummm. I need to let my sponge absorb that one for a bit…………awmmmmmmmm…………………..
. I guess I've done it both ways, depending on my destination. when I'm trying to make it around a point, without tacking again, then I may turn into the gust if it helps me make that objective. but if simply keeping the boat on it's feet is the concern, then I would ease.
So when you say "but because the apparent wind went AFT" are you saying the gust came from a different direction? or that it somehow effects the main more than the jib?
this is good stuff,
Russ
No. Even if a puff comes from the same direction as the general breeze, the net effect (vector math) pushes the new apparent wind AFT.Huummm. I need to let my sponge absorb that one for a bit…………awmmmmmmmm…………………..
I guess I've done it both ways, depending on my destination. when I'm trying to make it around a point, without tacking again, then I may turn into the gust if it helps me make that objective. but if simply keeping the boat on it's feet is the concern, then I would ease.
So when you say "but because the apparent wind went AFT" are you saying the gust came from a different direction? or that it somehow effects the main more than the jib?
this is good stuff,
Russ
When this happens you are trimmed for pointing but the wind is hitting the sails like you were reaching. THAT is what heels you up. Now the two choices come in. Easing first is the fast way.
I agree when you are trying to fetch a mark without tacking, nosing up will get you higher. But is slower! Here's a big tip I share when I coach. ALWAYS SAIL FAST. Don't pinch, just point and if you need to tack, tack. Faster.
Why do people do it the other way and just turn up? Because they are in big boats with the mainsheet (and jib sheet) secured. And honestly, on lots of cruise-centric boats it is very hard to always be trimming the main, with hard to use travelers and mainsheet in awkward places. For those boats, often turning up is the best (if not fastest) choice. But ideally your sheets would be as active as your tiller. When we are sailing in performance mode the sheets are never cleated. Its super fast, and it why people who grew up in dinghy are super fast. Ask this gal. she knows what to do when the puff hits. Ease.
I knowed I shouldn't a' skipped all those math classes.
Great shot! thanks for the new screen background
. looks much better than this one.Hey… how come I'm doing it just like her, but I'm not going as fast? must be my blown out sail????
Can't thank you all enough for the great advise,
Russ
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Well I can't comment on your (unseen) sail shape, but when it comes to hiking she OWNS you. ;^)Great shot! thanks for the new screen background
Hey… how come I'm doing it just like her, but I'm not going as fast? must be my blown out sail????
Please note that the Laser sailor has the tiller in one hand and the uncleated mainsheet in the other......
Either you steer to the tell tales.... which is what a cruiser's wind vane self steering device does.... or you steer to the compass course.. which requires close attention to sail trim..
When you are beating up wind, and the sails are pulled all the way in... it is more likely that you will use the jib tell tales to steer, rather than trim. When a gust hits and the Apparent wind direction moves aft... you can head the boat up... as if you're getting lifted.
If you're already going in the direction you want (on the layline or at vmg, for instance) then it will do you no good to head up in a gust... so you ease the sails to adjust angle of attack to match the change in apparent wind direction... with the added benefit of a probable speed increase.... now... as the boat's speed picks up it will start moving the AWD forward again and therefore you pull the sails in to maintain angle of attack..... and then.. the gust dies and you start all over again. Some people call this "playing the traveler"
When we're out for a leisurely day sail.... like I do 90 percent of the time..... or on a long cruise... the exact compass course isn't as important.. so we set the sails and then steer accordingly. The fluctuations in direction will even out somewhat... but if there is a significant true wind direction or true wind speed change and we're not making the general direction we want.... we adjust the sails.
Either you steer to the tell tales.... which is what a cruiser's wind vane self steering device does.... or you steer to the compass course.. which requires close attention to sail trim..
When you are beating up wind, and the sails are pulled all the way in... it is more likely that you will use the jib tell tales to steer, rather than trim. When a gust hits and the Apparent wind direction moves aft... you can head the boat up... as if you're getting lifted.
If you're already going in the direction you want (on the layline or at vmg, for instance) then it will do you no good to head up in a gust... so you ease the sails to adjust angle of attack to match the change in apparent wind direction... with the added benefit of a probable speed increase.... now... as the boat's speed picks up it will start moving the AWD forward again and therefore you pull the sails in to maintain angle of attack..... and then.. the gust dies and you start all over again. Some people call this "playing the traveler"
When we're out for a leisurely day sail.... like I do 90 percent of the time..... or on a long cruise... the exact compass course isn't as important.. so we set the sails and then steer accordingly. The fluctuations in direction will even out somewhat... but if there is a significant true wind direction or true wind speed change and we're not making the general direction we want.... we adjust the sails.
Joe brings up a good point. The mode of sailing you are in can effect how you react.
In CRUSE mode (yes we really do that) we'll trim the sails and set the AP into apparent wind mode. When the a puff hits, the AWD goes aft and the AP turns the boat up to keep the boat in trim. Every now and then we'll re-steer the boat toward our destination and re-term, then turn the AP back on.
In PERFORMANCE mode we to the ease-turn-trim when a puff hits. This can be hard because sailing in performance mode is a FULL TIME JOB. On long days and its just the two of us, we'll adapt a hybrid approach.
I think good sailors get better by always understanding what the wind is doing and how it effects their sails and boat. That way, even if their current sailing 'mode' means that don't take maximum advantage, they still completely understand what's going on. It makes you better and faster.
I guess it's been determined what a blown out sail is now, so ok to drift a bit .
We did end up going to the lake yesterday, but it turned out to be a less than stellar day of sailing. more of a "sit on the lake, soak up some sun, and eat lunch" day. the wind was pretty much 0-2 with gusts to 3 . One element that helped save the day was that we weren't the only idiots out there waiting for wind, which provided some entertainment for us both. the main body of the lake is about 5-6 miles long, so a "race" ensued to get to the other end. he was sailing (I believe) a Catalina 23. when we first saw him, he was sailing straight down the lake, and as far as I could determine, he never made a turn, tack, or major sail adjustment of any kind. I, on the other hand, was constantly making small adjustments to both sails, and tacking around to attempt to stay in any observed patches of wind on the water. A straight line was definitely NOT the fasted course on this day, as we beat him mercilessly (ok,... maybe it was only a hundred yards ).
When the tally is made, we'll be firmly in the "pleasure sailer" category instead of "racer". if we were in a real race, we'd be the ones drifting off course to get a closer look at the bald eagle in the tree near shore. but race strategy and tactics can still be a great learning tool to become better sailers.
My question/observation for the day:
On a flat water day there are generally patches of wind indicating turbulence on the water. how high above the water would one expect that indicated wind to extend? or, more importantly, would one expect the same wind velocity to also be a few feet over the patches of adjacent glassy water as well? In other words: is it REALLY worth staying in the turbulent water to go faster?
Cheers,
Russ
.We did end up going to the lake yesterday, but it turned out to be a less than stellar day of sailing. more of a "sit on the lake, soak up some sun, and eat lunch" day. the wind was pretty much 0-2 with gusts to 3
. One element that helped save the day was that we weren't the only idiots out there waiting for wind, which provided some entertainment for us both. the main body of the lake is about 5-6 miles long, so a "race" ensued to get to the other end. he was sailing (I believe) a Catalina 23. when we first saw him, he was sailing straight down the lake, and as far as I could determine, he never made a turn, tack, or major sail adjustment of any kind. I, on the other hand, was constantly making small adjustments to both sails, and tacking around to attempt to stay in any observed patches of wind on the water. A straight line was definitely NOT the fasted course on this day, as we beat him mercilessly (ok,... maybe it was only a hundred yards ). When the tally is made, we'll be firmly in the "pleasure sailer" category instead of "racer". if we were in a real race, we'd be the ones drifting off course to get a closer look at the bald eagle in the tree near shore. but race strategy and tactics can still be a great learning tool to become better sailers.
My question/observation for the day:
On a flat water day there are generally patches of wind indicating turbulence on the water. how high above the water would one expect that indicated wind to extend? or, more importantly, would one expect the same wind velocity to also be a few feet over the patches of adjacent glassy water as well? In other words: is it REALLY worth staying in the turbulent water to go faster?
Cheers,
Russ
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On a very light, fluky day, the best way to sail is to use a technique racers call 'connecting the dots'.
This means looking for wind on the water (dark spots) and watching other boats, shoreline, trees, etc for signs of pressure. The goal is to KEEP moving. When you boat moves it generates its own apparent wind. That does not last forever, but movement is good. So when it is light, always be sailing toward pressure. Sometimes you get to a dark spot and there is no real breeze. That happens. Sometimes over perfectly flat water you find breeze aloft. We call that the magic carpet ride. Nice when it happens. All part of the game. But keep moving!
PROTIPS - Weight lowside to heel the boat to leeward. Less wetted surface area and the heel helps the sails stay full. Have someone trim the headsail by hand.
My observations yesterday exactly. this makes me visualize that the wind must be moving across the water in waves. the trough hitting the water surface and creating the "dark spots" as you call them wile, at the same time, under the crest of the wind wave, the water is glassy.
Next time I'm out in super light wind like that I'll have to place tell-tails higher and lower on the shrouds to get a better picture in my mind of just what's going on.
I think I understand your PROTIP to say: heal toward the windward side of the boat to catch more of the wind? [nod] makes sense.
Thanks,
Russ
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Sorry, Low slide to LEEWARD, (high side is windward) making the mast lean away from the wind. Gravity pulls the sail downwards, giving it shape that very light wind alone cannot.
I must admit I had to laugh when I first read this. but then I realize that larger boats have heavier sails that surely must take a bit more wind to fill than mine. When I first saw the sails on my Capri I had to do a double take to see if they were actually dacron… or ripstop nylon
. If my sails don't fill, I'm getting out and walking.. or doing the MinnKota shuffle.Russ
Now that I've decided to get a new mainsail, I've been researching and finding a lot of small sail lofts out there. some seem kinda iffy to me, but perhaps some may actually be a great product for a reasonable price. any suggestions/recommendations on brands, or should I just bite the bullet and go for the North Sails one design sails?
Thanks,
Russ
Thanks,
Russ
I don't know whether you noticed but sailboatowners.com sells sails. Why not give them a try? In fact, when any sailor who uses their site for info etc need marine parts sailboatowners.com should be their first stop. What has BoatUS, North Sails or any other marine supplier done for you sailors lately -- or ever -- other than take your money. Then ask what has sailboatowners.com done for us sailors and it's free but it costs money to run these forums.
Don,
I'd be more than happy to support a forum supporter. but I'd still like to hear from someone who has used the product rather than being the one to "give them a try". 6-800+ dollars is a lot of money, to me, to gamble with.
The "one click" sails listed on the site certainly had my interest due to the low price, but they also apparently offer NO options. not even sail numbers or emblems. I could live with that if it's a really good sail, but I still would like to hear from others first.
Russ
Recutting that sort of sail by tightening seams is not difficult. You simply rip the seam, while leaving the leach and luff in place, then overlap the cloth more, in a consistent manner (no abrupt changes), and re-sew. About 5 seams will be needed (the foot can be flattened with outhaul--with an attached foot you need a winch or tackle and REALLY PULL. On smaller sails you can often judge the effectiveness of the seam adjustments by tacking it with a single pass and then setting it horizontally, from a tree under tension.
A good learning process, and what do you have to loose? Could be done in an after noon. You said the cloth still had some stiffness. A good book on sailmaking will describe the process. I have done this several times, mostly on headsails for my prior boat (Stiletto 27).
A good learning process, and what do you have to loose? Could be done in an after noon. You said the cloth still had some stiffness. A good book on sailmaking will describe the process. I have done this several times, mostly on headsails for my prior boat (Stiletto 27).
Call Dave at sailboatowners.com and ask him what he can do for you (numbers, emblems) and ask for a couple of references.
I just wrote down the ph#, and information listed on the sails I'd need, and will call him on Monday morning. looks like they have a sale going on them until Sept 30th, so maybe it can work out.
Thanks Don,
Russ
I may well try that after I get a set of new sails
. I've already played around with "pinching" the sail, wile set up in my driveway, and it does seem possible to do a nip and tuck here and there to regain some shape. I also intend to soak the sail foot (boltrope) and really reef the outhaul until it dries. it seems shrunken to me, almost as much as the sail cloth being stretched.You're right, it could be a great learning process, and I do love to tinker on things I know nothing about.
Russ
I'll buy most things on-line, and for sure to support forums like this.
But buying sails online gives me pause. I've done it, but only because I had direct interactions with the person actually designing and cutting the sail. I would not buy from someone who was just a order-taker for some huge factory on the other side of the world. Your caution is warranted.