I am considering a 1988 22ft catalina. Is this a good "first sailboat"? What are the things one should look for in buying a used catalina? thanks for your help.
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M
mg
yup
ok here is what i looked for, 1)check the bolts from the inside of the transom for leaks , you will see a brown water stain if it is . 2) chances are the scuppers do leak dont worry you can epoxy them later. 3)check all bilge areas that you can access, make sure they are dry. if not dont offer as much for her. 4) check the hoses . chances are they are in need of replacement. figure this into your offer too. the anchor well hose is a pain to get to . 5)actually rub your hand over the whole boat!!!! any repairs to fiberglass or gel coat will be readily noticed. 6)if there is a new bottom on the boat id say beware. it can cover a lot of problems . dont be afraid to prod and poke at bottom paint flaws . if the owner protests look for anther boat. 7)you will need new sails if they are original so decuct $600or so. replacements will run 1200ot 16oo. 8)you are due for new rigging $340 or so there. 9)check the deck ,there shouldnt be any cracks , especially at the mast step. i passed 4 boats based on this . it could be fixed but i felt that if the owner let that go and it was such a no brainer to get it fixed or more important to me, how it got there in the first place......some say im too picky but ive never put a crack in any of my other 4 boats so..... the crack in the gas compartment is the only exception. its is in all the 22s ive seen. check the chain plates for leakage and wear. also the fittings on the mast . 10)if it is a swing keel you are due to drop the board to replace the pin. lots of folks do it themselves . but make itworth your while 11)run the outboard in a tank. get a test sail if you can . 12)finally check the trailer. if the bearings havent been replaced in the last 3-4 months or a receipt is not shown deduct 150 or so . also if the tires are over 3 years old you will need new ones. yeah the tread looks good but take a look at the side wall, see those cracks and crazings. you dont want to heat that tire up. check the load rating does it add up to the gvwr plus 20 %. it better. if not price tired that are. these are the basics that i look for . take your time if it didnt take you 3 hours to look at the boat you didnt see it enough. sit on it , stare at it . and most importantly walk away and go to see it a second and maybe a third time.also make you offer away from the boat. i do it on the phone . it allows for less presure while negotiating plus its easier to say "i need to think about it "" ill call you back." most importantly look a several boats like 10 or so to get a feel for what it should be like to get a good compairison and price value. good luck and yes its a great starter boat.
ok here is what i looked for, 1)check the bolts from the inside of the transom for leaks , you will see a brown water stain if it is . 2) chances are the scuppers do leak dont worry you can epoxy them later. 3)check all bilge areas that you can access, make sure they are dry. if not dont offer as much for her. 4) check the hoses . chances are they are in need of replacement. figure this into your offer too. the anchor well hose is a pain to get to . 5)actually rub your hand over the whole boat!!!! any repairs to fiberglass or gel coat will be readily noticed. 6)if there is a new bottom on the boat id say beware. it can cover a lot of problems . dont be afraid to prod and poke at bottom paint flaws . if the owner protests look for anther boat. 7)you will need new sails if they are original so decuct $600or so. replacements will run 1200ot 16oo. 8)you are due for new rigging $340 or so there. 9)check the deck ,there shouldnt be any cracks , especially at the mast step. i passed 4 boats based on this . it could be fixed but i felt that if the owner let that go and it was such a no brainer to get it fixed or more important to me, how it got there in the first place......some say im too picky but ive never put a crack in any of my other 4 boats so..... the crack in the gas compartment is the only exception. its is in all the 22s ive seen. check the chain plates for leakage and wear. also the fittings on the mast . 10)if it is a swing keel you are due to drop the board to replace the pin. lots of folks do it themselves . but make itworth your while 11)run the outboard in a tank. get a test sail if you can . 12)finally check the trailer. if the bearings havent been replaced in the last 3-4 months or a receipt is not shown deduct 150 or so . also if the tires are over 3 years old you will need new ones. yeah the tread looks good but take a look at the side wall, see those cracks and crazings. you dont want to heat that tire up. check the load rating does it add up to the gvwr plus 20 %. it better. if not price tired that are. these are the basics that i look for . take your time if it didnt take you 3 hours to look at the boat you didnt see it enough. sit on it , stare at it . and most importantly walk away and go to see it a second and maybe a third time.also make you offer away from the boat. i do it on the phone . it allows for less presure while negotiating plus its easier to say "i need to think about it "" ill call you back." most importantly look a several boats like 10 or so to get a feel for what it should be like to get a good compairison and price value. good luck and yes its a great starter boat.
L
LaDonna Bubak - Catalina Owners
Good boat
But it really depends on your sailing needs. Will you be mainly day sailing? Weekend cruising? Longer cruises? With family or solo? I looked long & hard at 22s & 25s but went for a 27 since it has more living room and I could find one in my price range. Think about how you will ideally use the boat and go from there. MG covered just about everything but I wouldn't necessarily write it in stone that the boat will need new rigging and sails. Sure, you're "due" for a rigging change but there are other factors involved, such as if it's been in fresh or salt water. And you don't have to replace it all at once. I'll be replacing my rigging (WEEEELLLLL past the replacement point) one at a time to ease the pain in the pocketbook. The sails will probably be just fine for a beginner's needs. Unless you plan to race, or their in just awful shape, don't bother with new sails. Have fun with the decision! LaDonna
But it really depends on your sailing needs. Will you be mainly day sailing? Weekend cruising? Longer cruises? With family or solo? I looked long & hard at 22s & 25s but went for a 27 since it has more living room and I could find one in my price range. Think about how you will ideally use the boat and go from there. MG covered just about everything but I wouldn't necessarily write it in stone that the boat will need new rigging and sails. Sure, you're "due" for a rigging change but there are other factors involved, such as if it's been in fresh or salt water. And you don't have to replace it all at once. I'll be replacing my rigging (WEEEELLLLL past the replacement point) one at a time to ease the pain in the pocketbook. The sails will probably be just fine for a beginner's needs. Unless you plan to race, or their in just awful shape, don't bother with new sails. Have fun with the decision! LaDonna
M
mg
have to disagree
a couple of points. you need to take sails and rigging into account on the negotiated price of the boat. my personal observation is that a first time buyers pay way too much for their boats than they should and then put even more into them with the necessary upgrades a year later when they realize what they are missing. and personally i wouldnt want to lose a mast. also a new sailor needs as much help in getting the boat moving well that i couldnt recomend starting out with a handicap of poor sails. if nothing else but the tendency to heel (and in heavy air a new sailor needs all the security a boat can offer and that comes with good sail shape and sail controls). get a veteren to help in the decision on sails if you need imput or feel ill equiped. but youll be that much happier. as for money i've been in ladonnas shoes but i always did the upgrades to ensure the safety of myself , my crew and others around me. for me sailing has enough surprises already without unanticipated and avoidable breakdowns , figure this into the price you are going to pay for the boat. an analogy , as a musician i tell first time students who are in the market for their instruments to buy a good quality moderately expesive one. that way it has better tone and playability as well as making success of the student almost guaranteed. and the extra cost will be recouped on the otherside if there is a need to sell. , .by the way most students who heed this adivice play to better levels than those that dont. could just be level of interest or desire but not coincidence. so if you put off rigging and sails and moderate go fast stuff, to me its like a car with a scruffy paint job, 3 out of 4 gears and in need of a tune up. of course sailing is about making your own decisions and accepting the outcomes with out complaint. the good and the bad. good luck and hope to see you both on the water. beer is on me!!
a couple of points. you need to take sails and rigging into account on the negotiated price of the boat. my personal observation is that a first time buyers pay way too much for their boats than they should and then put even more into them with the necessary upgrades a year later when they realize what they are missing. and personally i wouldnt want to lose a mast. also a new sailor needs as much help in getting the boat moving well that i couldnt recomend starting out with a handicap of poor sails. if nothing else but the tendency to heel (and in heavy air a new sailor needs all the security a boat can offer and that comes with good sail shape and sail controls). get a veteren to help in the decision on sails if you need imput or feel ill equiped. but youll be that much happier. as for money i've been in ladonnas shoes but i always did the upgrades to ensure the safety of myself , my crew and others around me. for me sailing has enough surprises already without unanticipated and avoidable breakdowns , figure this into the price you are going to pay for the boat. an analogy , as a musician i tell first time students who are in the market for their instruments to buy a good quality moderately expesive one. that way it has better tone and playability as well as making success of the student almost guaranteed. and the extra cost will be recouped on the otherside if there is a need to sell. , .by the way most students who heed this adivice play to better levels than those that dont. could just be level of interest or desire but not coincidence. so if you put off rigging and sails and moderate go fast stuff, to me its like a car with a scruffy paint job, 3 out of 4 gears and in need of a tune up. of course sailing is about making your own decisions and accepting the outcomes with out complaint. the good and the bad. good luck and hope to see you both on the water. beer is on me!!
B
Brad Williams
An '88 is a good boat...
If it's been taken care of. You fail to mention keel configuration, the swing leave a few details open that require consideration that the wing or fin does not. I tend to side with LaDonna and think that mg is being a little overly pessimestic regarding sails, rigging, tires, wheel bearings. Especially the advice to deduct $XX....deduct from what, you haven't mentioned a price. Certainly, those items will affect the price, but I don't know that you can say "deduct" without knowing what the sellering is asking. I think I'd just say to keep those cost numbers in mind so that you know they may represent necessary additions...some required sooner than others. Depending on use , the original sails could be fine and service you for years. Sail the boat and see. The rigging may have been replaced once in the boats life...ask. If it's been a while, the $350 mg gives probably isn't far off...but you can do it in stages. I've not heard of the 20% margin for tire capacity....they don't come from the manufacturer with a 20% margin, I'm sure of that. I'm not saying that a safety margin is bad, but you are paying more for it. I'd do the bearings unless you had evidence that they were done yesterday or last week or something. If you do it yourself, two wheels (or is a dual axil) shouldn't set you back much more than $50. One thing neither mg or LaDonna touched on, check the gudgins, especially on anything other than a fin. Running aground has a tendency to rip them out of the hull. Usually not a big repair job, but pay attention. But, the '88 is a great boat.....an even greater first boat. Fair Winds Brad
If it's been taken care of. You fail to mention keel configuration, the swing leave a few details open that require consideration that the wing or fin does not. I tend to side with LaDonna and think that mg is being a little overly pessimestic regarding sails, rigging, tires, wheel bearings. Especially the advice to deduct $XX....deduct from what, you haven't mentioned a price. Certainly, those items will affect the price, but I don't know that you can say "deduct" without knowing what the sellering is asking. I think I'd just say to keep those cost numbers in mind so that you know they may represent necessary additions...some required sooner than others. Depending on use , the original sails could be fine and service you for years. Sail the boat and see. The rigging may have been replaced once in the boats life...ask. If it's been a while, the $350 mg gives probably isn't far off...but you can do it in stages. I've not heard of the 20% margin for tire capacity....they don't come from the manufacturer with a 20% margin, I'm sure of that. I'm not saying that a safety margin is bad, but you are paying more for it. I'd do the bearings unless you had evidence that they were done yesterday or last week or something. If you do it yourself, two wheels (or is a dual axil) shouldn't set you back much more than $50. One thing neither mg or LaDonna touched on, check the gudgins, especially on anything other than a fin. Running aground has a tendency to rip them out of the hull. Usually not a big repair job, but pay attention. But, the '88 is a great boat.....an even greater first boat. Fair Winds Brad
B
Bob H.
Just did
but too soon to give any solid advice. It's a 1988 wing keel. I bought it as is for a good price compared to NADA. The sails and rigging are original but look to be in good shape. I only replaced the halyards which were stiff and the motor was questionable so I bought a new one. There were some hair line cracks in the gel coat in various places, easily repaired. It just went on the mooring Friday so too soon to tell if there are any issues. It floats nicely. I spent a lot of time on this web site before I made the plunge but am convinced this was the best boat for the best buy. The availablility of replacement parts from Catalina Direct (great catalog) also helped in the decision. Good Luck. Bob H. Scituate
but too soon to give any solid advice. It's a 1988 wing keel. I bought it as is for a good price compared to NADA. The sails and rigging are original but look to be in good shape. I only replaced the halyards which were stiff and the motor was questionable so I bought a new one. There were some hair line cracks in the gel coat in various places, easily repaired. It just went on the mooring Friday so too soon to tell if there are any issues. It floats nicely. I spent a lot of time on this web site before I made the plunge but am convinced this was the best boat for the best buy. The availablility of replacement parts from Catalina Direct (great catalog) also helped in the decision. Good Luck. Bob H. Scituate
K
K2
Congratulations! Let the fun begin!!
Congratulations Bob H!!! You did it. This is the most important step to becoming an accomplished sailor. Be careful of getting caught up in all the BS! You are well on your way to becoming an experienced Sailboat owner. There are worst things in life to spend money on. To answer your "First Boat Question" The Catalina 22 is an outstanging boat to begin with. Being a sailor is not just about winning and having the fastest boat in the best condition. (these are good things) The process of loving your boat, working on it and getting it in great shape are very valuable, rewarding and important. Remember this. Focus on the fun. Spending the little money required will then feel really worth it. After 50 000 Miles of Ocean Racing, Long Cruises and Maintaining big boats, I still love my little Catalina 22 and the time I spend on her with my family. Let the fun begin!
Congratulations Bob H!!! You did it. This is the most important step to becoming an accomplished sailor. Be careful of getting caught up in all the BS! You are well on your way to becoming an experienced Sailboat owner. There are worst things in life to spend money on. To answer your "First Boat Question" The Catalina 22 is an outstanging boat to begin with. Being a sailor is not just about winning and having the fastest boat in the best condition. (these are good things) The process of loving your boat, working on it and getting it in great shape are very valuable, rewarding and important. Remember this. Focus on the fun. Spending the little money required will then feel really worth it. After 50 000 Miles of Ocean Racing, Long Cruises and Maintaining big boats, I still love my little Catalina 22 and the time I spend on her with my family. Let the fun begin!
K
K2
Previous message was for Doug and Bob!
Doug, My message was originally for you but it is good for Bob and anyone else looking to buy a first boat. Go for it!!
Doug, My message was originally for you but it is good for Bob and anyone else looking to buy a first boat. Go for it!!
R
Ron Hicks
another first time buyer
I can relate to your quandary about buying a sailboat. We had decided to buy one but to learn more about them first. Then a Catalina 22 came along that was too good of a deal to pass up so we bought it without knowing enough. The local community college has a program where people donate their old boats and the college sells them to raise money for their scholarship fund. (A good deal all around, and a very worthwhile program.) We bought our 22 for $1500 and noticed it didn't have sails, rudder and tiller or the boom. The college assured us that they had taken the loose things like that inside so that they would not get stolen. They found the sails but nothing else. Still, I feel that I got a fair deal and the money goes to a good cause. I am enjoying the learning process of cleaning several years of grime and neglect off the boat. I have completely redone the woodwork, reworked the little pull out galley and am getting ready to bottom paint her. The original plan was to get her in the water this year but the more we learn, the more it looks like it will be next year; because like a previous reply said, beginning sailors don't want surprises out in the water. Anyway, that's my input on the subject. I guess that more knowledge and experience would have led to a better boat buying decision but I am not complaining and am glad that we bought the 22.
I can relate to your quandary about buying a sailboat. We had decided to buy one but to learn more about them first. Then a Catalina 22 came along that was too good of a deal to pass up so we bought it without knowing enough. The local community college has a program where people donate their old boats and the college sells them to raise money for their scholarship fund. (A good deal all around, and a very worthwhile program.) We bought our 22 for $1500 and noticed it didn't have sails, rudder and tiller or the boom. The college assured us that they had taken the loose things like that inside so that they would not get stolen. They found the sails but nothing else. Still, I feel that I got a fair deal and the money goes to a good cause. I am enjoying the learning process of cleaning several years of grime and neglect off the boat. I have completely redone the woodwork, reworked the little pull out galley and am getting ready to bottom paint her. The original plan was to get her in the water this year but the more we learn, the more it looks like it will be next year; because like a previous reply said, beginning sailors don't want surprises out in the water. Anyway, that's my input on the subject. I guess that more knowledge and experience would have led to a better boat buying decision but I am not complaining and am glad that we bought the 22.
M
mg
hi guys
all i am saying is if you buy a used boat for $5000 put on new sails for $1200 and turned around and sold the boat the next day, the selling price would still be less than $6200. now i understand that people place diferent value on different areas of the boat buying equation, but this is what i mean by "deduct" as in the buyer deducting value on new sails that have not depreciated. conversely the seller artificially inflates the value of items . for example he bought the boat and put on new sails year ago for $1200, they have a year of use on them but he will still say "yup brand new sails last year 1200 worth " and show the reciept. he then takes that off the bargaining table when it comes to price negotiations. this infated value needs to be addressed. the rub is is when they are sails or other items the buyer holds as valueless and the seller sees and full of value. you can see in thread that each of us hold value in different areas of the equations. i guess in summary that when a buyer is looking for a boat, the mediocre boats stand out as a value because of the lower price than the upgraded boats that have a have much higher price but , in my opinion , the better value in in the most recent upgraded boat....unless you get the old one for a REAL GOOD PRICE! and how offen do you hear that . thats right all the time . but not many people run around saying "wow i paid more than i should have and cant wait to put more into it!" anyway, the thing to remember is the value of anything is strickly dependent on the the owner....not the seller or the buyer they are in flux and when an agreement is made you then have a new "owner" and someone else who doesnt know if he is happy with the size of the check .aint this boating thing fun??? by the way the money i put into sailing has been the best purchase ive ever made. always said it and hopefully always will . take care ya'll
all i am saying is if you buy a used boat for $5000 put on new sails for $1200 and turned around and sold the boat the next day, the selling price would still be less than $6200. now i understand that people place diferent value on different areas of the boat buying equation, but this is what i mean by "deduct" as in the buyer deducting value on new sails that have not depreciated. conversely the seller artificially inflates the value of items . for example he bought the boat and put on new sails year ago for $1200, they have a year of use on them but he will still say "yup brand new sails last year 1200 worth " and show the reciept. he then takes that off the bargaining table when it comes to price negotiations. this infated value needs to be addressed. the rub is is when they are sails or other items the buyer holds as valueless and the seller sees and full of value. you can see in thread that each of us hold value in different areas of the equations. i guess in summary that when a buyer is looking for a boat, the mediocre boats stand out as a value because of the lower price than the upgraded boats that have a have much higher price but , in my opinion , the better value in in the most recent upgraded boat....unless you get the old one for a REAL GOOD PRICE! and how offen do you hear that . thats right all the time . but not many people run around saying "wow i paid more than i should have and cant wait to put more into it!" anyway, the thing to remember is the value of anything is strickly dependent on the the owner....not the seller or the buyer they are in flux and when an agreement is made you then have a new "owner" and someone else who doesnt know if he is happy with the size of the check .aint this boating thing fun??? by the way the money i put into sailing has been the best purchase ive ever made. always said it and hopefully always will . take care ya'll
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