How do I remove swage fittings for replacement?

[Steve Dion]

Mark:

We had life lines with Johnson over-center pelican hooks made by Seco and we saved about 50%. Just give them a call, you may be surprised.

 

[Anonymous member 131]

Believe it or not I just found a card with several of these clamps with ss eyes that my wife bought a few years back for my logging/sawmill operation that where to small for what I needed that I kept around just in case and threw them in my emrrgency equipment drawer on the boat lol makes feel good im at least on the same page as some here. Thanks Greg. I also found some wire in my starboard cockpit lazzerette (however you spell that) and thats what gave me the idea to bring those clamps. Next question tho is do you keep bolt/cable cutters in the locker too? Or just cut certain lengths from good portions of old rigging? It would sure be great to find a dremmel style 12 volt tool.

 

[Delezynski]

Believe it or not I just found a card with several of these clamps with ss eyes that my wife bought a few years back for my logging/sawmill operation that where to small for what I needed that I kept around just in case and threw them in my emrrgency equipment drawer on the boat lol makes feel good im at least on the same page as some here. Thanks Greg. I also found some wire in my starboard cockpit lazzerette (however you spell that) and thats what gave me the idea to bring those clamps. Next question tho is do you keep bolt/cable cutters in the locker too? Or just cut certain lengths from good portions of old rigging? It would sure be great to find a dremmel style 12 volt tool.

Mark,

I do keep a cable cutter in the kit, but just for cutting away the rig if I MUST.
For cutting my rigging wire to size, as shown in my Youtube video, I wrap the wire with tape and hold it in a notch in the end of a simple 2X4, OR through a drilled hole in the 2X4. Then use a simple hack saw. Slow and easy does it and I had NO unlaying of the wire.

I bought a 12 volt Dremmel, but it was just does not have the umph to be any good for our rigging wire.

Greg

 

[Anonymous member 131]

Thats good to hear I was just looking at proxxons 12 volt rottary tool. Also milwakkee has a heavy duty one too thars supposed to be really good now. A small hacksaw tool wouldnt take up much room and as your video showes it takes very little time to cut.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

No need for the back hairs to bristle ...

Mark, you have come to a good place for information. You will also get a variety of opinions. While many will encourage the self-reliant tone of your inquiry, I simply took an approach that I thought was more practical. I thought I sensed a little bit of an attitude that your jack-of-all-trades opinion of yourself is superior to those professionals who are in the business to make your sailing experience safe and enjoyable.

I had a different opinion when you seemed to question about salvaging a length of wire that should obviously not be trusted. Others had already corrected you on that notion but it did sound like a cost-cutting question. It is also reasonable to think that the DIY fittings would make the overall job less expensive (I had the same thought, originally). It made me question whether your goal was economy rather than safety first ... since I am wrong about that, I apologize.

Obviously, some, like Greg & Stu don't seem to have a very high opinion of riggers. I, on the other hand, have never had any reason to question their integrity. Thousands, if not millions, of boats are perfectly fine with swaged fittings performed by somebody other than the owner. But I have heard the stories, so I would guess that choosing the right rigger is important.

I don't think that you have clearly answered the question if you are replacing all of the standing rigging or just the one piece. If you really have reason to distrust the rigging, then I assume you will be replacing all of it. That will be a time-consuming and expensive project if you really want to do it. My over-riding question is why? Why not have this simple task done less expensively, just as safely, and probably far more quickly by a rigger? I am sure you can accomplish it with no problem. You don't have to thump your chest and proclaim your can-do spirit. Do you not have other things to do?

Greg is a blue water sailor and he has his reasons for needing to be more self-sufficient. You are a 1st time owner with a Catalina 30 and suddenly you're about to set sail for the far corners of the earth? Ok, maybe, I don't blame you if that is your thinking ... but maybe step back a few and see how this is perceived by others (I know ... you probably don't care).

Don't take offense ... if you look at my smiling face in the avatar, this is my demeanor, even when I sound critical. There is no skin off my nose when my comments are neither heeded or appreciated. Much of the time, there is a little bit of that Jersey ball-busting attitude mixed into some friendly conversation. It's an internet forum ... there is bound to be a mix of attitudes thrown in with the information.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Obviously, some, like Greg & Stu don't seem to have a very high opinion of riggers. I, on the other hand, have never had any reason to question their integrity.

Scott, very nice and thorough post, thanks.

I don't have anything against riggers in general, just that one doofus.

I have had excellent service done in other boatyards on other of our boats.

Like anything else in life, it's the people.

 

[Delezynski]

As I said in an older post, if you are hanging around local waters, go for the easy route! AND, my opinion is about a lot of the sailing/yard disciplines, NOT just riggers! We have had good work accomplished aboard our boat, and some not so much!!! :cussing:

BUT, if you are heading out, not one of the hired people you have working on your boat will be out there with you! And most likely will not remember you at all.

And as a local TV commercial around here says, "I have an outta sight warranty, once I'm outta sight, the warranty is void!"

I had some work done on our boat in San Francisco, before we headed down the west coast, I had a major problem with the work and had to be towed in. I was traumatized, well, maybe not that bad!

I had to have a haul out at a very high cost yard. When the guy came to fix the problem (after installing parts that were damaged due to bad work) I told the shipwright he was going to instruct me on how to do the work. He said up front it would cost me a lot more. I SAID OK!!!! and we worked through it and the cost was about 1.5 what it would have been to have him do it for me.

Later, in the Sea of Cortez, I had to have some work done that I could NOT do myself aboard. OK, no problem, got it done. We departed the marina and on the second day out, had a noticeable problem. I pulled into a nice spot to anchor, dropped the hook and USED THE KNOWLEDGE I had gained back at that haul out!!! We were MANY miles from help, but I had the info to help us.

Just sayin........

Greg

 

[Anonymous member 131]

This is exactly where/how I want to be with my boat. I've found that I can learn at an exhilarated rate by using common sense and visualizing a scenario where the concept im learning could be used. Of course I cannot imagine every scenario that may occur but it really helps to ask these questions get answers that expand my thought processes to even other prospects of sailing/cruising the great lakes. We experience winds and storms very simular to ocean sailing on occasion but luckily have pretty calm water on a day to day basis. That being said we plan to sail up from Caseville Michigan, 48725 zip code which is close to the tip of what is called the mitten/thumb area of Michigan to the eastern upper peninsula area called the north channel where marinnas are few and far between and you find little natural harbors around one of the many islands. The georgian bay Canada is just to the south and supposedly there are ways to sail into it from the north channel but they look pretty shallow for my draft. We want to take this summer and next to get to know the boat and sail her well while refitting her then after two seasons my wife plans to completely retire and we are going to take off and enjoy. I've just got to get her to read the books i've got and get over her fear of the boat tilting. Any suggestions there? Again thank you for sharing your knowledge and techniques with us.

 

[Delezynski]

This is exactly where/how I want to be with my boat. I've found that I can learn at an exhilarated rate by using common sense and visualizing a scenario where the concept im learning could be used. Of course I cannot imagine every scenario that may occur but it really helps to ask these questions get answers that expand my thought processes to even other prospects of sailing/cruising the great lakes. We experience winds and storms very simular to ocean sailing on occasion but luckily have pretty calm water on a day to day basis. That being said we plan to sail up from Caseville Michigan, 48725 zip code which is close to the tip of what is called the mitten/thumb area of Michigan to the eastern upper peninsula area called the north channel where marinnas are few and far between and you find little natural harbors around one of the many islands. The georgian bay Canada is just to the south and supposedly there are ways to sail into it from the north channel but they look pretty shallow for my draft. We want to take this summer and next to get to know the boat and sail her well while refitting her then after two seasons my wife plans to completely retire and we are going to take off and enjoy. I've just got to get her to read the books i've got and get over her fear of the boat tilting. Any suggestions there? Again thank you for sharing your knowledge and techniques with us.

Sure sounds like the right attitude to me. But that's only us.

ONE THING, do NOT underestimate the lakes!!! I grew up in Ill. I am not saying you do or will, just for the info of others who might read this.

I remember a race on Lake Michigan that a number of "blue water" sailors come to. They ALL got wiped out due to the weather & water. They, being blue water sailors underestimated it's ferocity by a BATCH! You have some challenging conditions, enjoy and hope to see ya "out there" some day.

Remember the Edmund Fitzgerald !

Greg

 

[Anonymous member 131]

You are very astute in your statements about the lakes. That is one reason I put in the fact that we do get storms like blue water storms. I dont take them lightly and when the winds hit twenty mph im nearly in to harbor if not there already. My first day out after buying our boat I got hit with a squall that had my decks awash and me hanging on to the mast realizing the guy I bought it from took the reefing lines with him so I just took the sails down and motored the last 1.5 hours through 4' waves to the nearest harbor. Truthfully thatI did great until going below to grab a drink and some lunch then lost my toe nails over board. The following day the weather was so bad everyone stayed in the marina. The third day was great but foggy until 11:30 AM. I left the harbor at 7:30 AM and sounded a fog horn every five mins. By the end of the day another low preasure system came in, se as increased with the wind to 6' waves and thats when I started noticing my shrouds had lossened and I was about to loose my main. Tightened those in a tossing sea luckily my auto helm worked great and kept me going while I worked on the deck. My final day was a 14 hour treck into the teeth of yet another storm and I ended up coming into the marrina at dusk with the stomr making it pitch black an no lighted bouies on what was mapped as a straight 3 nm shot into the sebewaing river that is not straight but bellies south around two hundred feet which put me on the rocks ubtil I was able to float it off at mid night and brought it in at one am. I learned a ton on that trip!

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Mark, you're lucky to have such a great cruising ground and I agree that you have to take the conditions very seriously. We were in Chicago over the weekend and witnessed what happens when the north wind blows. Basically, our plans to sail on a rental Hunter 32 flew out the window on Friday and Saturday.

Way back in 1976, we had a Norwegian relative who crewed on the Christian Radich which actually sailed all the way to Chicago after the Bicentennial celebration in New York's tall ships parade. He visited with us during leave when they were in Chicago. As we heard later, this ship never saw rougher conditions (with that crew) than they encountered at the northern end of Lake Michigan upon their return. My distant cousin wrote that he was never more concerned than he was on that day during his entire year on the ship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Radich

Anyway, I loved Nubs Nob & Boyne Mtn when I was a Midwestern skier!

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Have your wife take the helm ...

I've just got to get her to read the books i've got and get over her fear of the boat tilting. Any suggestions there? Again thank you for sharing your knowledge and techniques with us.

On a day with a gentle wind or moderate breeze, have her take the helm while you manage the sails. While she holds a steady course, you can ease the mainsail to control heeling. If conditions are right, you can gradually hold angles of heel that increase up to about 15 degrees. If she continues to have a fear at 15 degrees after you have made a gradual progression, then you may be dealing with a more difficult case. Otherwise, she will soon gain confidence at the helm because she will feel in control of the heeling and she will lose any irrational concern.

Also, at some point, instruct her to turn gradually into the wind when she feels uncomfortable about heeling (while you hold the mainsheet firm as the heeling increases). She will soon realize that she has control. I never advocate simply releasing the wheel or tiller, as the case may be. Doing that simply causes the boat to abruptly come to a halt with the sails flogging. While it stops the heeling immediately, it doesn't give her any sense that she is in control of the situation.

I always think that confidence is only gained when a new sailor can learn that the situation and the boat is always under their control. The motion of a 30' boat in a steady breeze should be gradual enough that there won't be any sudden movements that disturb your progression.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Boats & wives who fear heeling

Scott's right.

Also learn how to heave to. It's simple, easy, and immediately makes the boat pretty level and QUIET.

Great for lunches in uncrowded waters (too many sailors are too stupid to recognize when a boat is hove to and then come close and try to see what's going on - some bozo did that to me between two races one day and slammed into me!!!), good for reefing the main when the jib is backwinded and is a nice way to take a break.

Each boast is different, but basically we have found (on this and other boating forums) that a HUGE jib makes it hard to heave to in most recreational boats, so if you have a 155, furl it down to a 110 and it should work with your C30.

Like docking, practice it until it becomes second nature.

Good luck, nice plans you have.

All the best,

Stu

 

[Anonymous member 131]

Re: Boats & wives who fear heeling

Well im glad to hear I started in the right direction. I had her sit beside me while I went thru those basic manuvers and she settled down a little but was still very tense. She is reading the compltet Sailor now then hopefully plain sailing after that. Those are the two books I found most informative. Hopefully she gets over this fear. The month of August seen so little fresh winds this was the first time she experienced 10 kt winds and 15 kt gusts. By the time I headed back in the wind was up to 20 kts but id already dropped sail to enter the 3 NM channel to our slip. She told me she would never had stepped back on a boat if shed gone through what I had so im trying to be very carefuk with her till she realizes we control things as long as we keep a weather eye on things as they say

 

[Ron20324]

Uummm... Hasn't this thread been hijacked?

 

[Anonymous member 131]

No Ron I opened it and its evolved. Its all good

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

Mark:

We had life lines with Johnson over-center pelican hooks made by Seco and we saved about 50%. Just give them a call, you may be surprised.

Do be aware- the Johnson fittings for life lines require a different swager than nicro press fittings,. DO NOT use a standard nicro press tool with Johnson life line fittings..

I happen to own both, and they are VERY different