- Status
Prudent Vessel Operation
The quiz was interesting, and I did pretty well on it. But there are two questions that concern me, namely, #5 - Tug in Tow, and #8 - Sailboat not moving through water. Here is my view of these questions, and they differ with "correct" answers. With respect to the tugboat in tow situation, one would normally choose the "correct" answer, except the author inserted the words "in tow". This completely changes a simple question. A tug in tow is a very dangerous vessel, since the tow is very difficult to control. This condition of a tow, requires one to abide by the COLREG Rule 7 The risk of collision. It specifically mentions the dangers of a tow. When approaching a tug in tow, the prudent course of action, that I use, is to check to see the overall situation, cable length, wind conditions, barge size and general contents. Then I hail the tug via vhf and inform the captain of my sailing intentions. I have found tug captains to be the most professional and courteous. They will inform me of all the nav essentialls - speed, course, and any special circumstances or restrictions -water depth, cross curents, etc. Then I pass as wide as possible. I think that the rule of prudence prevails in this case and not a simple rule of "stand-on", since the barge can never really be made to stand-on. There are many reasons that a sailboat may be not moving through the water and not be disabled. In my sailing course work, the thing that we practiced most often was stopping the boat in order to recover a MOB. One can "heave to" and so a quick stop, or do a "Figure 8" and then luff sails to approach the MOB. In such a condition one indicates by vhf or signal flags that you are stopped in the water and attempting the recovery. I don't think that one would leave the victum to become the "give-way" boat. In fact I have encountered two overturn tenders offshore and in each case performed all aspects of a MOB. The rules of the road are very important, just like driving rules for and automobile, but neds to go beyond the rules and drive defensively and sail defensively. I guess that is why COLREG #2 exists, follow the rules ans always apply prudence to any situation. Sailing Vessel - Athena Tayana 58 LOA cutter Owner/operator - James T. Clemens
The quiz was interesting, and I did pretty well on it. But there are two questions that concern me, namely, #5 - Tug in Tow, and #8 - Sailboat not moving through water. Here is my view of these questions, and they differ with "correct" answers. With respect to the tugboat in tow situation, one would normally choose the "correct" answer, except the author inserted the words "in tow". This completely changes a simple question. A tug in tow is a very dangerous vessel, since the tow is very difficult to control. This condition of a tow, requires one to abide by the COLREG Rule 7 The risk of collision. It specifically mentions the dangers of a tow. When approaching a tug in tow, the prudent course of action, that I use, is to check to see the overall situation, cable length, wind conditions, barge size and general contents. Then I hail the tug via vhf and inform the captain of my sailing intentions. I have found tug captains to be the most professional and courteous. They will inform me of all the nav essentialls - speed, course, and any special circumstances or restrictions -water depth, cross curents, etc. Then I pass as wide as possible. I think that the rule of prudence prevails in this case and not a simple rule of "stand-on", since the barge can never really be made to stand-on. There are many reasons that a sailboat may be not moving through the water and not be disabled. In my sailing course work, the thing that we practiced most often was stopping the boat in order to recover a MOB. One can "heave to" and so a quick stop, or do a "Figure 8" and then luff sails to approach the MOB. In such a condition one indicates by vhf or signal flags that you are stopped in the water and attempting the recovery. I don't think that one would leave the victum to become the "give-way" boat. In fact I have encountered two overturn tenders offshore and in each case performed all aspects of a MOB. The rules of the road are very important, just like driving rules for and automobile, but neds to go beyond the rules and drive defensively and sail defensively. I guess that is why COLREG #2 exists, follow the rules ans always apply prudence to any situation. Sailing Vessel - Athena Tayana 58 LOA cutter Owner/operator - James T. Clemens
Didereaux,
It does not exclude a sailing vessel in #8. If another sailng vessel is approaching or a ship (say limited by draft), the burden is on you to move. It would be extremely inconsiderate for another sailor to do this but the fact is it does not exclude sailboats. r.w.landau
It does not exclude a sailing vessel in #8. If another sailng vessel is approaching or a ship (say limited by draft), the burden is on you to move. It would be extremely inconsiderate for another sailor to do this but the fact is it does not exclude sailboats. r.w.landau
James some comments
I've some time on my hands to-day as I am literally waiting for some paint to dry. A couple of comments: First on question 5 - a sailboat overtaking a tug and tow. The answer "the tug is the stand on vessel because it is being overtaken" is correct. The rule states that "any vessel overtaking any other vessel shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken." What this means is that if you in a sailboat are overtaking a PWC (unlikely), a rowboat (maybe), a recreational power boat, a tug with a tow or a swim platform you must keep clear. The vessel that is being overtaken maintains its course. James, I agree with your comments regarding the hazards of a tug with a tow. There have been many accidents to pleasure boats caused by not paying close enough attention to tugs with tows. However, the rule in this case as overtaking vessel you must give way. This is clear and not arguable. If a tow swings wide around a bend you have to keep clear. Rule 7 is a non specific over riding rule regarding evaluating risk of collision that applies when other rules are not clearly applicable. Question 8 - no where does it say anything about either vessel being a sailboat. Based on the wording of the question the vessel not making way has to be a powerboat or the question makes no sense ie. why does the question specifically identify that the vessel is approaching you on your starboard beam - this is only significant if both vessels are power boats - see my earlier comments. A bit of explanation for newbies, If you are under power the area that would be covered by your green light (0 to 112.5degrees on your starboard) is your 'danger zone' and you must give way to any vessel approaching in that area. If you had sails up and your motor is off you are a sailboat subject to a different set of rules none of which have anything to do with a boat approaching on your starboard beam. If a sailboat was luffing up recovering a MOB they are restricted in their ability to manoever and therefore do not have to give way unless the other vessel is even more restricted in their ability to manoever ie. a ship in a narrow channel who is closing fast and can't stop.... Incidently I can think of 5 circumstances in which a sailing vessel is not the stand on vessel wrt a vessel that is using its engine. Some have already been mentioned. Can anyone come up with more?
I've some time on my hands to-day as I am literally waiting for some paint to dry. A couple of comments: First on question 5 - a sailboat overtaking a tug and tow. The answer "the tug is the stand on vessel because it is being overtaken" is correct. The rule states that "any vessel overtaking any other vessel shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken." What this means is that if you in a sailboat are overtaking a PWC (unlikely), a rowboat (maybe), a recreational power boat, a tug with a tow or a swim platform you must keep clear. The vessel that is being overtaken maintains its course. James, I agree with your comments regarding the hazards of a tug with a tow. There have been many accidents to pleasure boats caused by not paying close enough attention to tugs with tows. However, the rule in this case as overtaking vessel you must give way. This is clear and not arguable. If a tow swings wide around a bend you have to keep clear. Rule 7 is a non specific over riding rule regarding evaluating risk of collision that applies when other rules are not clearly applicable. Question 8 - no where does it say anything about either vessel being a sailboat. Based on the wording of the question the vessel not making way has to be a powerboat or the question makes no sense ie. why does the question specifically identify that the vessel is approaching you on your starboard beam - this is only significant if both vessels are power boats - see my earlier comments. A bit of explanation for newbies, If you are under power the area that would be covered by your green light (0 to 112.5degrees on your starboard) is your 'danger zone' and you must give way to any vessel approaching in that area. If you had sails up and your motor is off you are a sailboat subject to a different set of rules none of which have anything to do with a boat approaching on your starboard beam. If a sailboat was luffing up recovering a MOB they are restricted in their ability to manoever and therefore do not have to give way unless the other vessel is even more restricted in their ability to manoever ie. a ship in a narrow channel who is closing fast and can't stop.... Incidently I can think of 5 circumstances in which a sailing vessel is not the stand on vessel wrt a vessel that is using its engine. Some have already been mentioned. Can anyone come up with more?
Hi Malcolm - A Few Comments
I don't think it is necessary to debate any of these situations. Techically, one can argue that the correct answers are "correct". The point that I was trying to advance and guess that I didn't, is that prudent judgement in all cases overides all other rules. That is why Rule 2 was created. IT's purpose is to make sure that all vessel operators consider the safety of the crew and the vessel above all else. With respect to the questions, especially #8, about the vessel, the logic that it has to be a power boat is false. Yes a vessel approaching from starboard is usually the stand on vessel and the other vessel's danger zone is involved. But the problem with this question and the answer is the following. How does the vessel that is approaching the stationary vessel know that it is not disabled in any way. He doesn't know anything other than the vessel is not moving. So according to the "correct" answer, the approaching vessel is the stand on vessel and he continues on his course. Now at what point does he decide that he may be on a collision course, or the other vessel is not disabled, or disabled, or whatever is causing the situation. One cannot view and answer some of these questions only from one point of view, both operators must be considered in the question. Let me give you a real example of a very similar situation and then you decide how you would hanle it. I was motor sailing south along the Atlantic coast and doing about 6 knots on a calm beautiful morning, on my starboard side I suddenly see a high speed charter fishing boat approaching. They move at 30 -35 knots. Since they are not very high off the water he was coming at me and was rather close. Think about this, if he is on auto pilot he may be talking to his friends and not notice me, or since I am east of him he may not be able to see me because of sun glare or a random white cloud. What do I do. The risk of colision is there in my mind. Sure I will give way but it takes time to decide exactly what his course will be, so that I can make the proper turn and maximize our crossing distance. Well I did my best, turned away as fast as I could. The charter boat passed about sixty feet from me and I then got hit with his huge wake while I was still turning. The point is, one can never know all the important variables in all cases, and therefore one must always operate a vessel prudently. I think I did, but I also think that the other vessel was moving too fast for the conditions. But you try to tell that to the skipper of one of those high speed vessels. He will tell you there is no speed limit in international waters, we were both under power, he had the right of way, and therefore, by his reading of the rules he was operating safely. Now if a collision occurred, who would be at fault, me or him. So let me end on the note that I started. Rule 2 overrides all other rules, by stating that the most important issue is that the operator of a vessel may break any other rule, in case a question of safety to the crew and the vessel. When given a set of conditions one must always assume that there can be other factors involved, and act accordingly. Jim Clemens
I don't think it is necessary to debate any of these situations. Techically, one can argue that the correct answers are "correct". The point that I was trying to advance and guess that I didn't, is that prudent judgement in all cases overides all other rules. That is why Rule 2 was created. IT's purpose is to make sure that all vessel operators consider the safety of the crew and the vessel above all else. With respect to the questions, especially #8, about the vessel, the logic that it has to be a power boat is false. Yes a vessel approaching from starboard is usually the stand on vessel and the other vessel's danger zone is involved. But the problem with this question and the answer is the following. How does the vessel that is approaching the stationary vessel know that it is not disabled in any way. He doesn't know anything other than the vessel is not moving. So according to the "correct" answer, the approaching vessel is the stand on vessel and he continues on his course. Now at what point does he decide that he may be on a collision course, or the other vessel is not disabled, or disabled, or whatever is causing the situation. One cannot view and answer some of these questions only from one point of view, both operators must be considered in the question. Let me give you a real example of a very similar situation and then you decide how you would hanle it. I was motor sailing south along the Atlantic coast and doing about 6 knots on a calm beautiful morning, on my starboard side I suddenly see a high speed charter fishing boat approaching. They move at 30 -35 knots. Since they are not very high off the water he was coming at me and was rather close. Think about this, if he is on auto pilot he may be talking to his friends and not notice me, or since I am east of him he may not be able to see me because of sun glare or a random white cloud. What do I do. The risk of colision is there in my mind. Sure I will give way but it takes time to decide exactly what his course will be, so that I can make the proper turn and maximize our crossing distance. Well I did my best, turned away as fast as I could. The charter boat passed about sixty feet from me and I then got hit with his huge wake while I was still turning. The point is, one can never know all the important variables in all cases, and therefore one must always operate a vessel prudently. I think I did, but I also think that the other vessel was moving too fast for the conditions. But you try to tell that to the skipper of one of those high speed vessels. He will tell you there is no speed limit in international waters, we were both under power, he had the right of way, and therefore, by his reading of the rules he was operating safely. Now if a collision occurred, who would be at fault, me or him. So let me end on the note that I started. Rule 2 overrides all other rules, by stating that the most important issue is that the operator of a vessel may break any other rule, in case a question of safety to the crew and the vessel. When given a set of conditions one must always assume that there can be other factors involved, and act accordingly. Jim Clemens
James...
In your real example, wasn’t the power boat to your starboard the privileged boat and you the burdened? Sorry (not really) about the terminology, but I hate the new terms. Paul s/v The Lord Nelson
In your real example, wasn’t the power boat to your starboard the privileged boat and you the burdened? Sorry (not really) about the terminology, but I hate the new terms. Paul s/v The Lord Nelson
Response to Paul
Hi Paul, I agree with you about terminology, it can be confusing. Privileged = Stand-on = hold course and speed = has the right of way. Burdened = Give Way = alter course = does not have right of way. Yes the power boat is the privileged boat. He can hold his course and speed theoretically. But if he causes a situation that clearly indicates that a risk of collision exists, then he must take appropiate action. Theoretically, I have to alter my course, but I need time to determine which way. If you have a power boat coming at you, moving at a speed of 1 mile in 2 minutes (30 knots) I don't think anyone can judge his course accurately enough to make a course change and have adequate clearance. (Course over ground is different than heading - so you have to form a range and determine relative motion - takes time). Remember that at 6 knots, I can only move about 1/5 mile (1000 feet) in two minutes if I make the change immediately. At one mile distance, one cannot accurately judge a COG for the type of boat I mentioned, within several degrees, and therefore the risk of collision exists. I used this example because it is real, and it demonstrates that a high speed vessel has to maintain a very critical uninterpeted watch at all times. They also have to be able to alter course adequately to avoid collision. What would happen if my slow moving sailboat were not a sailboat, but a disabled small craft, or a floating container from a cargo ship. My point is as follows: Be careful on the water, use the rules of the road, and most importantly always operate your vessel in a safe manner no matter what type of vessel it is. I have sailed in many countries where people don't follow the rules of the road, don't speak my native language of English, and don't use radar or vhf. In these conditions, defensive sailing is not exceptional, it is essential. As the dispatch sargent, of Hill Street Blues, gave his final instructions to the police officers going on duty: "And don't forget you be careful out there" Have fun sailing :>) Jim Clemens
Hi Paul, I agree with you about terminology, it can be confusing. Privileged = Stand-on = hold course and speed = has the right of way. Burdened = Give Way = alter course = does not have right of way. Yes the power boat is the privileged boat. He can hold his course and speed theoretically. But if he causes a situation that clearly indicates that a risk of collision exists, then he must take appropiate action. Theoretically, I have to alter my course, but I need time to determine which way. If you have a power boat coming at you, moving at a speed of 1 mile in 2 minutes (30 knots) I don't think anyone can judge his course accurately enough to make a course change and have adequate clearance. (Course over ground is different than heading - so you have to form a range and determine relative motion - takes time). Remember that at 6 knots, I can only move about 1/5 mile (1000 feet) in two minutes if I make the change immediately. At one mile distance, one cannot accurately judge a COG for the type of boat I mentioned, within several degrees, and therefore the risk of collision exists. I used this example because it is real, and it demonstrates that a high speed vessel has to maintain a very critical uninterpeted watch at all times. They also have to be able to alter course adequately to avoid collision. What would happen if my slow moving sailboat were not a sailboat, but a disabled small craft, or a floating container from a cargo ship. My point is as follows: Be careful on the water, use the rules of the road, and most importantly always operate your vessel in a safe manner no matter what type of vessel it is. I have sailed in many countries where people don't follow the rules of the road, don't speak my native language of English, and don't use radar or vhf. In these conditions, defensive sailing is not exceptional, it is essential. As the dispatch sargent, of Hill Street Blues, gave his final instructions to the police officers going on duty: "And don't forget you be careful out there" Have fun sailing :>) Jim Clemens
Missed the tug cause I thought "restricted
manuverability" was more imperative than the overtaking, poor logic on my part. Also the sailboat in fog signal, I thought signal for sailboat underway in fog was long blast every 2 minutes. I'll definately recheck cause it is fog season, good quiz, be nice if more people knew rules of road.
manuverability" was more imperative than the overtaking, poor logic on my part. Also the sailboat in fog signal, I thought signal for sailboat underway in fog was long blast every 2 minutes. I'll definately recheck cause it is fog season, good quiz, be nice if more people knew rules of road.
Final results
Final results for the sailing skills quiz ending June 12, 2005: How many questions did you answer correctly on the sailing skills quiz? 37% 4-5 26% 3 or less 23% 6-7 14% 8 or more 1,463 owners responding
Final results for the sailing skills quiz ending June 12, 2005: How many questions did you answer correctly on the sailing skills quiz? 37% 4-5 26% 3 or less 23% 6-7 14% 8 or more 1,463 owners responding
Final answers?
Could you post the final answers? I printed the quiz but never got around to checking the answers. Thanks.
Could you post the final answers? I printed the quiz but never got around to checking the answers. Thanks.
ROR
The rules for preventing collission apply only when two vessels are in sight of one another.
The rules for preventing collission apply only when two vessels are in sight of one another.
Collision Regulations apply under any conditions
The Collision Regulations (Part B - Steering and Sailing Rules) are divided into Section I - Conduct of Vessels in any condition of visibility and Section II - Conduct of Vessels in sight of one another. Section 1 has rules that apply in poor or good visibility - they include Rules on keeping a Look-out, Safe Speed, Assessing Risk of Collision, Action to Avoid Collision as well as Narrow Channels and Traffic Seperation Schemes. What you may be thinking of is that if you cannnot see other vessels due to any reason (fog, background light clutter, heavy rain, snow etc) you cannot assume the right of way. In this circumstance requirement is to "proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions." We teach that in general you should be able to stop in half the distance which you can see. (with a sailing vessel under sail this might well mean taking effective evasive action ie. a significant change of course.) By the way under this section there are rules which apply to vessels using radar (incuding cautions on reliance on the information provided) as well.
The Collision Regulations (Part B - Steering and Sailing Rules) are divided into Section I - Conduct of Vessels in any condition of visibility and Section II - Conduct of Vessels in sight of one another. Section 1 has rules that apply in poor or good visibility - they include Rules on keeping a Look-out, Safe Speed, Assessing Risk of Collision, Action to Avoid Collision as well as Narrow Channels and Traffic Seperation Schemes. What you may be thinking of is that if you cannnot see other vessels due to any reason (fog, background light clutter, heavy rain, snow etc) you cannot assume the right of way. In this circumstance requirement is to "proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions." We teach that in general you should be able to stop in half the distance which you can see. (with a sailing vessel under sail this might well mean taking effective evasive action ie. a significant change of course.) By the way under this section there are rules which apply to vessels using radar (incuding cautions on reliance on the information provided) as well.
A Question for Malcohm
Hi Malcohm, First a question. In your last post you said "we teach" Who is "we". USCG, USPS, ASA, etc. Second, you asked people to think of situations when a sailboat does not have the right of way or is "stand-on". 1. fishing vessels with nets deployed 2. dive boats with divers down 3. boats engaged in underwater operations. 4. dredges 5. vessels constrained by draft and manuver 6. ferries 7. under way, not under command 8. military 9. federal, state, or local law enforcement This is only a partial list since the colregs for inland waters can be expanded upon by local governmental authorities. Right? I am really interested in what organization you teach for. I have taught sail theory and many other courses for the United States Power Squadron and have sailed internationally for over ten years. I own a 58 foot cutter rig which I sail as captain, so I am responsible for its safe operation. No one responded to my real example about the high speed charter fishing vessel. I was the "give way" vessel. Can you tell me which way I turned the boat? Have fun sailing Jim Clemens
Hi Malcohm, First a question. In your last post you said "we teach" Who is "we". USCG, USPS, ASA, etc. Second, you asked people to think of situations when a sailboat does not have the right of way or is "stand-on". 1. fishing vessels with nets deployed 2. dive boats with divers down 3. boats engaged in underwater operations. 4. dredges 5. vessels constrained by draft and manuver 6. ferries 7. under way, not under command 8. military 9. federal, state, or local law enforcement This is only a partial list since the colregs for inland waters can be expanded upon by local governmental authorities. Right? I am really interested in what organization you teach for. I have taught sail theory and many other courses for the United States Power Squadron and have sailed internationally for over ten years. I own a 58 foot cutter rig which I sail as captain, so I am responsible for its safe operation. No one responded to my real example about the high speed charter fishing vessel. I was the "give way" vessel. Can you tell me which way I turned the boat? Have fun sailing Jim Clemens
James -when sailing vessels must give way to power
Thanks for replying. I can see you are quite knowledgeable in the Collision Regulations. However, I will take your reply as an opportunity to help educate sailors (the sailors who use wind that is - power boaters are also called sailors). There are unfortunately a few sailors around who think they always have the right of way unless the other guy is a lot bigger..... First in reply to your question, I have taught for the Canadian Power and Sail Squadron for 17 years plus 4 years for the Vienna International Sailing Club when I was working in Europe. The Canadian Power and Sail Squadron is modelled after the US Power Squadron with the first Canadian Squadron formed in 1938 so James, we volunteer our services to sister organizations. All of this teaching has among other things included the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea (Collision Regs). My knowledge has grown as I encourage discussion on interpretation under various circumstances and questions the students raise based on their experiences. James I expect my experience is less than yours, however I have a Catalina 36 and previously had a 32' cutter rigged sail boat. I started as a sailor (the stinkpotter type) in a runabout I built in high school, a sailing dinghy etc. I have sailed internationally as well in areas including the US, BVI, Croatia, Slovenia, the Greek Islands, Australia (although I wasn't in command) and various areas in Canada with the majority of my experience in the Great Lakes. That said - you provided a good list of occassions when sail must give way - I am going to expand on these a bit. I will group my responses under the applicable International Rules (which form the core of the USCG Navigation Rules). Rule 18 - Responsibilities between Vessels states part (b) states in "A sailing vessel underway shall keepout of the way of: i) a vessel not undercommand ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to manoevre iii) a vessel engaged in fishing"* Rule 3 part g) defines a "vessel that is restricted in her ability to manoevre". James has mentioned some them - but it amounts to a vessel "which from the nature of her work is restricted in their ability manoevre as required by these Rules and is therfore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel. eg. laying cables or pipe, transferring provisions or cargo, a towing operation that severely restricts the manoeverability of the towing vessel, clearing mines..... I don't think I want to be nearby anyway.... etc" James, most of your examples come under these headings with the exception of the military and state/local authorities (which are not international and I don't believe they are part of US inland rules either.( I believe these are probably covered by other US laws so I won't comment on them but others should comment if they know). Canada and many other countries have their own modifications as well, however I have never heard of any that contradict the International Regulations - not that I consider myself at all expert - mostly national regulations provide additional specific guidance in intrepretation of an International Rule or they may provide additional guidance if the international Rules do not provide guidance. Back to the Rules Rule 18 above applies ""Except where Rules 9, 10 and 13 otherwise require:" I will explain each of these. Rule 9 applies in Narrow Channels among other applicable facts states in part b) "A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway." Rule 10 "Traffic Seperation Schemes - International" states in part j) "A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shalln ot impede the safe passage of a power-driven vessel following a traffic lane." These traffic seperation schemes are marked on charts and normally small vessels are supposed to stay out of them or if necessary to cross - cross them at right angles. Rule 13 "Overtaking - International" states in part a) "Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B (vessels in sight of one another), Sections I and II, any vessel overtaking any other vessel shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken." As I stated earlier in this thread if a sailing vessel under sail is overtaking a PWC (or any other vessel) the vessel being overtaken is stand on and the sailing vessel (or any vessel) overtaking is give way (keep clear). Regarding crossing situations - there are a number of rules that come into play. Rule 7 helps to guide people on ways of determining if a Collision risk exists. A part that gives guidance in your circumstance is part d) i) In determinining if risk of collision exists the following considerations shall be among those taken into accout: i) such risk shall be deemed to exist if the compass bearing of an pproaching vessel does not appreciably change, (ii) such risk may sometimes exist even when an appreciable bearing change is evident, particularly when approaching a very large vessel of a tow or when approachiing a vessel at close range." (James this was a point you made earlier in the thread) In addition, Rule 8 "Action to avoid Collisions" states in part a) "Any action taken to avoid collision shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be positive, made in ample time and with due regard to the observance of good seamanship. b) Any alteration of course and/or speed to avoid collision shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be large enough to be readily apparent to another vessel observing visually or by radar; a succession of small alterations of course and/or speed should be avoided." There are other rules that apply in interpretation of the rules however I will quote a part of one that I always emphasize Rule 8 f) i) " A vessel which, by any of these rules, is required not to impede the passage or safe passage of another vessel shall, when required by the circumstances of the case, take early action to allow sufficient sea room for the safe passage of the other vessel." It is very important to let the other vessel know that you know the rules and are going to take action to allow them to stand on.... otherwise they may do something unexpected to avoid you if they suddenly at the last minute realize you don't know the rules (happens too frequently). Rule 16 also applies and says essentially the same thing. Regarding which way to turn if you must give way in a crossing situation - it is a question of seamanship in assessing what exactly the situation is - other vessels approaching, channel width, hazards, reduced visibility and detection by radar alone, how close to an actual collision you are etc. so that there is no clear rule except use good seamanship - however when you can see the other vessel in a crossing situation (if there are no other conflicting constraints) Rule 15 states "when two power-driven vessels are crossing so as to involve risk of collision, the vessel which has the other on her starboard side shall keep out of the way and shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid crossing ahead of the other vessel. ie. slow right down so that you will not cross ahead or make a clear alteration of course to the starboard to pass behind the stand on vessel. You could also turn to port and parallel the crossing vessel (substantially short of the crossing vessels course.) *Finally, lest someone read this reply and not my earlier comments - a vessel engaged in fishing has the right of way only if they are substantially restricted in manoeverability. It does include a "a vessel fishing with nets (as you indicated James) lines, trawls or other fishing apparatus which restrict manoeuverability, but does not inlcude a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus whhich do not restrict manoevrability" ie. a sports fisherman with trolling lines or downriggers can make an abrubt turn if need be. However be reasonable - go around them if you can - they are not moving faster than you. I think it is time to get off the soap box - but with a caution - I have only quoted parts of the rules that specifically respond to the e-mail from James - I quoted the parts which in my experience are most applicable to specific comments that James made about sailboat right of way and other comments he made. I would encourage those that are reading this to take a boating course from a well recognized organization like USPS or CPS or any of the organizations that James mentioned. These organizations offer a wide range of courses that cover a wide range of information that is important to sailors . You can learn the rules from the book - however it can be sleep inducing. It is better to learn the rules with lots of examples and answers to questions that people have. It sticks better. I think I got carried away.... hope this was useful to some readers. If you got this far...
Thanks for replying. I can see you are quite knowledgeable in the Collision Regulations. However, I will take your reply as an opportunity to help educate sailors (the sailors who use wind that is - power boaters are also called sailors). There are unfortunately a few sailors around who think they always have the right of way unless the other guy is a lot bigger..... First in reply to your question, I have taught for the Canadian Power and Sail Squadron for 17 years plus 4 years for the Vienna International Sailing Club when I was working in Europe. The Canadian Power and Sail Squadron is modelled after the US Power Squadron with the first Canadian Squadron formed in 1938 so James, we volunteer our services to sister organizations. All of this teaching has among other things included the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea (Collision Regs). My knowledge has grown as I encourage discussion on interpretation under various circumstances and questions the students raise based on their experiences. James I expect my experience is less than yours, however I have a Catalina 36 and previously had a 32' cutter rigged sail boat. I started as a sailor (the stinkpotter type) in a runabout I built in high school, a sailing dinghy etc. I have sailed internationally as well in areas including the US, BVI, Croatia, Slovenia, the Greek Islands, Australia (although I wasn't in command) and various areas in Canada with the majority of my experience in the Great Lakes. That said - you provided a good list of occassions when sail must give way - I am going to expand on these a bit. I will group my responses under the applicable International Rules (which form the core of the USCG Navigation Rules). Rule 18 - Responsibilities between Vessels states part (b) states in "A sailing vessel underway shall keepout of the way of: i) a vessel not undercommand ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to manoevre iii) a vessel engaged in fishing"* Rule 3 part g) defines a "vessel that is restricted in her ability to manoevre". James has mentioned some them - but it amounts to a vessel "which from the nature of her work is restricted in their ability manoevre as required by these Rules and is therfore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel. eg. laying cables or pipe, transferring provisions or cargo, a towing operation that severely restricts the manoeverability of the towing vessel, clearing mines..... I don't think I want to be nearby anyway.... etc" James, most of your examples come under these headings with the exception of the military and state/local authorities (which are not international and I don't believe they are part of US inland rules either.( I believe these are probably covered by other US laws so I won't comment on them but others should comment if they know). Canada and many other countries have their own modifications as well, however I have never heard of any that contradict the International Regulations - not that I consider myself at all expert - mostly national regulations provide additional specific guidance in intrepretation of an International Rule or they may provide additional guidance if the international Rules do not provide guidance. Back to the Rules Rule 18 above applies ""Except where Rules 9, 10 and 13 otherwise require:" I will explain each of these. Rule 9 applies in Narrow Channels among other applicable facts states in part b) "A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway." Rule 10 "Traffic Seperation Schemes - International" states in part j) "A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shalln ot impede the safe passage of a power-driven vessel following a traffic lane." These traffic seperation schemes are marked on charts and normally small vessels are supposed to stay out of them or if necessary to cross - cross them at right angles. Rule 13 "Overtaking - International" states in part a) "Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B (vessels in sight of one another), Sections I and II, any vessel overtaking any other vessel shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken." As I stated earlier in this thread if a sailing vessel under sail is overtaking a PWC (or any other vessel) the vessel being overtaken is stand on and the sailing vessel (or any vessel) overtaking is give way (keep clear). Regarding crossing situations - there are a number of rules that come into play. Rule 7 helps to guide people on ways of determining if a Collision risk exists. A part that gives guidance in your circumstance is part d) i) In determinining if risk of collision exists the following considerations shall be among those taken into accout: i) such risk shall be deemed to exist if the compass bearing of an pproaching vessel does not appreciably change, (ii) such risk may sometimes exist even when an appreciable bearing change is evident, particularly when approaching a very large vessel of a tow or when approachiing a vessel at close range." (James this was a point you made earlier in the thread) In addition, Rule 8 "Action to avoid Collisions" states in part a) "Any action taken to avoid collision shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be positive, made in ample time and with due regard to the observance of good seamanship. b) Any alteration of course and/or speed to avoid collision shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be large enough to be readily apparent to another vessel observing visually or by radar; a succession of small alterations of course and/or speed should be avoided." There are other rules that apply in interpretation of the rules however I will quote a part of one that I always emphasize Rule 8 f) i) " A vessel which, by any of these rules, is required not to impede the passage or safe passage of another vessel shall, when required by the circumstances of the case, take early action to allow sufficient sea room for the safe passage of the other vessel." It is very important to let the other vessel know that you know the rules and are going to take action to allow them to stand on.... otherwise they may do something unexpected to avoid you if they suddenly at the last minute realize you don't know the rules (happens too frequently). Rule 16 also applies and says essentially the same thing. Regarding which way to turn if you must give way in a crossing situation - it is a question of seamanship in assessing what exactly the situation is - other vessels approaching, channel width, hazards, reduced visibility and detection by radar alone, how close to an actual collision you are etc. so that there is no clear rule except use good seamanship - however when you can see the other vessel in a crossing situation (if there are no other conflicting constraints) Rule 15 states "when two power-driven vessels are crossing so as to involve risk of collision, the vessel which has the other on her starboard side shall keep out of the way and shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid crossing ahead of the other vessel. ie. slow right down so that you will not cross ahead or make a clear alteration of course to the starboard to pass behind the stand on vessel. You could also turn to port and parallel the crossing vessel (substantially short of the crossing vessels course.) *Finally, lest someone read this reply and not my earlier comments - a vessel engaged in fishing has the right of way only if they are substantially restricted in manoeverability. It does include a "a vessel fishing with nets (as you indicated James) lines, trawls or other fishing apparatus which restrict manoeuverability, but does not inlcude a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus whhich do not restrict manoevrability" ie. a sports fisherman with trolling lines or downriggers can make an abrubt turn if need be. However be reasonable - go around them if you can - they are not moving faster than you. I think it is time to get off the soap box - but with a caution - I have only quoted parts of the rules that specifically respond to the e-mail from James - I quoted the parts which in my experience are most applicable to specific comments that James made about sailboat right of way and other comments he made. I would encourage those that are reading this to take a boating course from a well recognized organization like USPS or CPS or any of the organizations that James mentioned. These organizations offer a wide range of courses that cover a wide range of information that is important to sailors . You can learn the rules from the book - however it can be sleep inducing. It is better to learn the rules with lots of examples and answers to questions that people have. It sticks better. I think I got carried away.... hope this was useful to some readers. If you got this far...
Which Way to Turn
Hi All, The way to turn when you feel that the imminent danger of collision exists, is to turn in a direction to minimize the collision and the amount of damage. I turned bow to approaching vessel and noted how close he passed me. My length is 58 feet LOA and he passed at about 60 feet. For other types of boats turning stern to the approaching vessel is also a good option. Reference to this tactic is in Chapman's. Minimize yourself as a target and do not let any vessel hit you broadside. That will crush your hull ans sink you in an instant. Jim Clemens
Hi All, The way to turn when you feel that the imminent danger of collision exists, is to turn in a direction to minimize the collision and the amount of damage. I turned bow to approaching vessel and noted how close he passed me. My length is 58 feet LOA and he passed at about 60 feet. For other types of boats turning stern to the approaching vessel is also a good option. Reference to this tactic is in Chapman's. Minimize yourself as a target and do not let any vessel hit you broadside. That will crush your hull ans sink you in an instant. Jim Clemens
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