So, how did you do on Warren Milberg's new sailing skills quiz? It was harder than it looked, eh? Please post any comments or questions here!
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Right of Way Irrespective of Point of Sail
The reason I answered incorrectly to your question on port vs. starboard tack is that point of sail is given as a criteria ie:"forward of the beam". In reading the International Colregs Rule 12 para (a) sub para (i)there is no distinction as to point of sail. That is why I answered none of the above, and feel that answer is correct, not the coast guard exam you quote.
The reason I answered incorrectly to your question on port vs. starboard tack is that point of sail is given as a criteria ie:"forward of the beam". In reading the International Colregs Rule 12 para (a) sub para (i)there is no distinction as to point of sail. That is why I answered none of the above, and feel that answer is correct, not the coast guard exam you quote.
Eric - I sympathize...
...but the answer given in the test is correct although it is misleading. I agree that Rule 12 a) i) indicates for sailboats under sail "when each has the wind on a different side, the vessel which has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the other." This in fact applies even when running at which time you determine the windward side as being "opposite to that on which the main sail is carried, or in the case of a square rigged vessel, the side opposite to that on which the largest fore-and-aft sail is carried." That means that if the wind is forward of the beam that the vessel with the wind forward of the beam on the port side must keep out of the way of the vessel with the wind forward of the beam on the starboard side. However, I agree that this question is misleading as it does not matter whether the wind is forward of the beam at all... however the answer given as correct is in fact correct. That said - I am glad to see a sailing skills and knowledge test once again.
...but the answer given in the test is correct although it is misleading. I agree that Rule 12 a) i) indicates for sailboats under sail "when each has the wind on a different side, the vessel which has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the other." This in fact applies even when running at which time you determine the windward side as being "opposite to that on which the main sail is carried, or in the case of a square rigged vessel, the side opposite to that on which the largest fore-and-aft sail is carried." That means that if the wind is forward of the beam that the vessel with the wind forward of the beam on the port side must keep out of the way of the vessel with the wind forward of the beam on the starboard side. However, I agree that this question is misleading as it does not matter whether the wind is forward of the beam at all... however the answer given as correct is in fact correct. That said - I am glad to see a sailing skills and knowledge test once again.
I'm new...
... to the sails quiz business. In the future, I'll try harder to develop or use material which is less subject to individual interpretation. Thanks for the comments to date. wm
... to the sails quiz business. In the future, I'll try harder to develop or use material which is less subject to individual interpretation. Thanks for the comments to date. wm
Badly conceived quiz
Setting up such wide wind parameters for making choices for trimming sails means several possible answers to many of the questions. Also the answers to choose from in #2 have the wrong information in them. I aborted taking the quiz after I realised the problems.
Setting up such wide wind parameters for making choices for trimming sails means several possible answers to many of the questions. Also the answers to choose from in #2 have the wrong information in them. I aborted taking the quiz after I realised the problems.
Warren - I liked your quiz
There is good stuff in it that people should know. It is well worth doing and makes you think. Alan - I believe you are commenting on a different quiz on sail trim that seemed to be running at the same time. Warren's quiz is relevant to Collision Regulations. (I just checked and the sail trim quiz seems to have disappeared). Warren keep up the good work!
There is good stuff in it that people should know. It is well worth doing and makes you think. Alan - I believe you are commenting on a different quiz on sail trim that seemed to be running at the same time. Warren's quiz is relevant to Collision Regulations. (I just checked and the sail trim quiz seems to have disappeared). Warren keep up the good work!
Warren, Great quiz!
These are the rules and and the ones that law enforcement are also watching. Your questions were factual, and understandable. Warren's questions were not poor or indecisive. They were actually very basic rules of the road questions. (I did miss the passing a towing vessel) For those that thought this quiz was poorly stated, taking a basic boating course will explain all of the answers to these questions. Just for your info, a basic boating courses might cost as much as $25 for a book and materials and take 10 hours of your time. That sure beats $200+ fines. ( a stupid mistake I made prior to the course)They really are a good deal. r.w.landau
These are the rules and and the ones that law enforcement are also watching. Your questions were factual, and understandable. Warren's questions were not poor or indecisive. They were actually very basic rules of the road questions. (I did miss the passing a towing vessel) For those that thought this quiz was poorly stated, taking a basic boating course will explain all of the answers to these questions. Just for your info, a basic boating courses might cost as much as $25 for a book and materials and take 10 hours of your time. That sure beats $200+ fines. ( a stupid mistake I made prior to the course)They really are a good deal. r.w.landau
Question on #8
I understand what it says in the 'book': however- "8) Your vessel is NOT making way, but is not in any way disabled. Another vessel is approaching you on your starboard beam. Which statement is TRUE? The options: A. The other vessel must give-way since your vessel is stopped. B. Your vessel is the give-way vessel in a crossing situation. C. You should be showing the lights or shapes for a vessel not under command. D. You should be showing the lights or shapes for a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver. Your answer: C. "You should be showing the lights or shapes for a vessel not under command." The correct answer: B. Your vessel is the give-way vessel in a crossing situation. " I absolutely fail to understand how you can be the 'give way' vessel in all instances if you are not making way? i.e. you have sails lowered and are NOT powered (yes there are some sailboats without motors), in that instance a collision is very well possible if sufficient time to raise sails and acquire speed is not available. There are similar scenarios to that one as well. If it is argued that the vessel is thus 'disabled' then it begs the original question which stated it was not, simply by reason of 'not making way'. Any sailboat becalmed or with sails furled fits the description. Anyone with a logical explanation of this conundrum is certainly welcomed to post it, for I am flummoxed on this one. didereaux
I understand what it says in the 'book': however- "8) Your vessel is NOT making way, but is not in any way disabled. Another vessel is approaching you on your starboard beam. Which statement is TRUE? The options: A. The other vessel must give-way since your vessel is stopped. B. Your vessel is the give-way vessel in a crossing situation. C. You should be showing the lights or shapes for a vessel not under command. D. You should be showing the lights or shapes for a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver. Your answer: C. "You should be showing the lights or shapes for a vessel not under command." The correct answer: B. Your vessel is the give-way vessel in a crossing situation. " I absolutely fail to understand how you can be the 'give way' vessel in all instances if you are not making way? i.e. you have sails lowered and are NOT powered (yes there are some sailboats without motors), in that instance a collision is very well possible if sufficient time to raise sails and acquire speed is not available. There are similar scenarios to that one as well. If it is argued that the vessel is thus 'disabled' then it begs the original question which stated it was not, simply by reason of 'not making way'. Any sailboat becalmed or with sails furled fits the description. Anyone with a logical explanation of this conundrum is certainly welcomed to post it, for I am flummoxed on this one. didereaux
Didereaux
You fell into the trap of saying a vessel "NOT making way" is somehow not able to manuever. An example: You are sailing on port tack at 5kts(through the water) against a 5kts current. At this point you have a speed over ground of 0kts (not making way). A vessel approaches from your stbd on stbd tack. You must change course to avoid a collision.
You fell into the trap of saying a vessel "NOT making way" is somehow not able to manuever. An example: You are sailing on port tack at 5kts(through the water) against a 5kts current. At this point you have a speed over ground of 0kts (not making way). A vessel approaches from your stbd on stbd tack. You must change course to avoid a collision.
Warren
Warren, Thank you for taking the time to work with the sailboatowners.com organization to put this quiz together. Ever since these quizes stopped I have really missed them. It keeps all of us on our toes! Great job! Dave
Warren, Thank you for taking the time to work with the sailboatowners.com organization to put this quiz together. Ever since these quizes stopped I have really missed them. It keeps all of us on our toes! Great job! Dave
Alan - re: not making way
Alan wrote "...An example: You are sailing on port tack at 5kts(through the water) against a 5kts current. At this point you have a speed over ground of 0kts (not making way). A vessel approaches from your stbd on stbd tack. You must change course to avoid a collision." No problem that. However, the question did NOT deal with a specific form of not making way. Therefor the examples I gave MUST be satisfied by the answer as well as the one you just gave...I remain flummoxed<grin> did
Alan wrote "...An example: You are sailing on port tack at 5kts(through the water) against a 5kts current. At this point you have a speed over ground of 0kts (not making way). A vessel approaches from your stbd on stbd tack. You must change course to avoid a collision." No problem that. However, the question did NOT deal with a specific form of not making way. Therefor the examples I gave MUST be satisfied by the answer as well as the one you just gave...I remain flummoxed<grin> did
Didereaux - your question
I like interesting discussions and it is clear that you know something about the rules. The situation is perhaps not intuitive and it is complicated and is open to lots of discussion. There are two things to keep in mind: 1, that this question appears to be aimed only at vessels fully capable of being propelled by mechanical means (eg a power boat) and clearly not being propelled by sails at the time... otherwise the question wouldn’t be talking about vessels approaching from the starboard beam... this is only of significance if the vessels are both being propelled by mechanical means. 2. as stated in the question your vessel is in no way disabled ie. your vessel is under command– a vessel not under command is by definition one “which through some exceptional circumstances is unable to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to to keep out of the way of another vessel.” ie. If you are not disabled you can start your engine and move. If you couldn’t start your engine you would be disabled (however you then are obligated to show the lights/shapes required of a vessel not under command
*). Finally, perhaps to address your concerns, one of the other rules that the quiz tested would require the stand on vessel to give way if “Collision cannot be avoided by the give-way vessel’s maneuver alone”. In other words... sheer obstinacy on the stand on vessels part is not allowed to reign. Finally, practically speaking, if I saw someone drifting in the water and I was moving and under control and there was lots of room – I (and no doubt most people) would make very early a noticeable change of course indicating that I am going to go around their stern - even as the stand-on vessel you can change your course if you do it obviously and well in advance. (Actually you should make any change in course in any meeting situation well in advance). In this case described in the quiz it is really quite easy to miss a sitting duck (eg in most cases it would be someone peacefully fishing) without a whole lot of trouble. *Without looking it up... does anyone know what lights/shapes that you would show if you weren’t under command? To be honest – I have forgotten although I know where to look it up... then you have to have the shapes/lights on board... Incidently - you are underway when the "vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to shore, or aground" That does not mean that you are under command as you could be a power boat with your engine broken down. Making way as I understand it is moving through the water... so if you are going 5 knots against a 5 knot current you are making way even though you are not moving relative to the ground.
I like interesting discussions and it is clear that you know something about the rules. The situation is perhaps not intuitive and it is complicated and is open to lots of discussion. There are two things to keep in mind: 1, that this question appears to be aimed only at vessels fully capable of being propelled by mechanical means (eg a power boat) and clearly not being propelled by sails at the time... otherwise the question wouldn’t be talking about vessels approaching from the starboard beam... this is only of significance if the vessels are both being propelled by mechanical means. 2. as stated in the question your vessel is in no way disabled ie. your vessel is under command– a vessel not under command is by definition one “which through some exceptional circumstances is unable to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to to keep out of the way of another vessel.” ie. If you are not disabled you can start your engine and move. If you couldn’t start your engine you would be disabled (however you then are obligated to show the lights/shapes required of a vessel not under command
*). Finally, perhaps to address your concerns, one of the other rules that the quiz tested would require the stand on vessel to give way if “Collision cannot be avoided by the give-way vessel’s maneuver alone”. In other words... sheer obstinacy on the stand on vessels part is not allowed to reign. Finally, practically speaking, if I saw someone drifting in the water and I was moving and under control and there was lots of room – I (and no doubt most people) would make very early a noticeable change of course indicating that I am going to go around their stern - even as the stand-on vessel you can change your course if you do it obviously and well in advance. (Actually you should make any change in course in any meeting situation well in advance). In this case described in the quiz it is really quite easy to miss a sitting duck (eg in most cases it would be someone peacefully fishing) without a whole lot of trouble. *Without looking it up... does anyone know what lights/shapes that you would show if you weren’t under command? To be honest – I have forgotten although I know where to look it up... then you have to have the shapes/lights on board... Incidently - you are underway when the "vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to shore, or aground" That does not mean that you are under command as you could be a power boat with your engine broken down. Making way as I understand it is moving through the water... so if you are going 5 knots against a 5 knot current you are making way even though you are not moving relative to the ground.
Confusion about sail trim and R of R quiz
Unfortunately, there was one link on the site that pointed to the last quiz we ran on sail trim, rather than the current quiz that Warren created. I was shocked that so many people use the link in the quiz box. Learn something every day! Anyway, that has been corrected. Also, I think warren did an outstanding job for his first quiz. These things are _not_ easy to write, and it's even tougher when they're immediately reveiwed by thousands of vocal (and sometimes chagrined) participants!
Unfortunately, there was one link on the site that pointed to the last quiz we ran on sail trim, rather than the current quiz that Warren created. I was shocked that so many people use the link in the quiz box. Learn something every day! Anyway, that has been corrected. Also, I think warren did an outstanding job for his first quiz. These things are _not_ easy to write, and it's even tougher when they're immediately reveiwed by thousands of vocal (and sometimes chagrined) participants!
Malcolm...thanks! re: question #8
Malcolm, Ahhhh, the light brightens<grin>. Yes I did NOT use my head and deduce the fact that the rule addressed was, in this instance anyway, a motoring issue. And yes, my answer was made in frustration and so was incorrect upon even the slightest application of logic...egads I am coming to hate old age! thanks again, did
Malcolm, Ahhhh, the light brightens<grin>. Yes I did NOT use my head and deduce the fact that the rule addressed was, in this instance anyway, a motoring issue. And yes, my answer was made in frustration and so was incorrect upon even the slightest application of logic...egads I am coming to hate old age! thanks again, did
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