Gary and Don did a nice job on this quiz, didn't they? We learned a few things and there's some good fodder for discussion, too. How did you do? Do you have questions or desire more explanation? Do you question any of the answers? Weigh in! If you haven't taken the quiz yet see link at the top of the home page.
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is there a good source for all of this knowledge
Ok I didn't get them all right and after getting my 10 lashes I want to learn the rules. What is the best source of trim information?
Ok I didn't get them all right and after getting my 10 lashes I want to learn the rules. What is the best source of trim information?
To Wanderer
There are many good books on the subject written by the likes of Dennis Conner and Gary Jobson. But a very good and straightforward summary has been written by my partner on the quiz, Don Guillette whose Sail Trim User's Guide is available through the chandlery on this site. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H 37.5
There are many good books on the subject written by the likes of Dennis Conner and Gary Jobson. But a very good and straightforward summary has been written by my partner on the quiz, Don Guillette whose Sail Trim User's Guide is available through the chandlery on this site. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H 37.5
easier on the water than in my office
Sitting in my cockpit, I would have been two answers better (9 vs. 7) than in my office. I just seem to have a mental block about the words "windward" and "leeward." Must be a sign of impending senility or something. At least I do it right on the water. Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
Sitting in my cockpit, I would have been two answers better (9 vs. 7) than in my office. I just seem to have a mental block about the words "windward" and "leeward." Must be a sign of impending senility or something. At least I do it right on the water. Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
Need to do better
I got three wrong (sorry Don). I'm launching my boat for the season on Wednesday. I purposely took the quiz having not read Don's book since last season, so now I'll read it a couple more times this week. ...RickM...
I got three wrong (sorry Don). I'm launching my boat for the season on Wednesday. I purposely took the quiz having not read Don's book since last season, so now I'll read it a couple more times this week. ...RickM...
I can vouch for that! After ordering Don 's book
and charts about two years ago, we started putting his sail trim wisdom into practice. It has definitely made us better sailors even if we don't have it all down pat yet. When we screw up, it's back to the book! Don explains all in a very easy to follow format and when you're all done reading, it all makes perfect sense. Thanks, Don!
and charts about two years ago, we started putting his sail trim wisdom into practice. It has definitely made us better sailors even if we don't have it all down pat yet. When we screw up, it's back to the book! Don explains all in a very easy to follow format and when you're all done reading, it all makes perfect sense. Thanks, Don!
Mainsail #4
I agree with your answer to let the mainsheet out. What through me was it also said to let the leech line out as well. I couldn't agree more. But why would a well cut sail need to have the leech line on anyway?
I agree with your answer to let the mainsheet out. What through me was it also said to let the leech line out as well. I couldn't agree more. But why would a well cut sail need to have the leech line on anyway?
Like the format....
I am always disappointed with sail trim advice that starts with ".. to increase draft, do the following..." I MUCH prefer sail trim instructions that involve the use of tell-tale feedback. This is how Don't sail-trim guides should be structured. Maybe it is now, mine is several years old. Zurf, when the leeward jib tell-tale is hanging, it's because the air isn't streaming around the leeward side of the jib. The sail is just blocking the air. You need to either point the boat (head up) or point the sail (ease the sheet) more into the wind.
I am always disappointed with sail trim advice that starts with ".. to increase draft, do the following..." I MUCH prefer sail trim instructions that involve the use of tell-tale feedback. This is how Don't sail-trim guides should be structured. Maybe it is now, mine is several years old. Zurf, when the leeward jib tell-tale is hanging, it's because the air isn't streaming around the leeward side of the jib. The sail is just blocking the air. You need to either point the boat (head up) or point the sail (ease the sheet) more into the wind.
Sail Trim Quiz
Wanderer: I'll have to take these questions one at a time. Reading the telltales is pretty easy once you understand what is happening to the flow of wind over the sails. Here's the answer to where to get the skinny on sail trim. My problem with most of the books I read on the subject of sail trim was a couple of things. First of all, most of the books I read talked about sail construction and boat construction and a whole bunch of stuff I could care less about. I didn't want to build the boat or the sails, all I wanted to do was to learn how to sail the boat efficiently. Secondly, the sail trim infomation was all over the place. For example, suppose I was looking for infomation on twist. I'd find it on page 45, 52, 85, 148 and 322. Same with everything else I was researching - the info was all over the place. What I did was take everything you needed to know about twist, and for that matter evey other aspect of sail trim, and put it on one page or a paragraph. In the case of telltales - it is all on 6 pages plus I expalin why everything is happening in plain English. If you had read my chapter on telltales you would have aced the quiz!! I'll bet your a better sailor for taking the quiz and probably know more about reading telltales than most of your sailing friends and dock neighbors. If you don't believe me, lay a couple of the questions on them and see the answers you get back!!!
Wanderer: I'll have to take these questions one at a time. Reading the telltales is pretty easy once you understand what is happening to the flow of wind over the sails. Here's the answer to where to get the skinny on sail trim. My problem with most of the books I read on the subject of sail trim was a couple of things. First of all, most of the books I read talked about sail construction and boat construction and a whole bunch of stuff I could care less about. I didn't want to build the boat or the sails, all I wanted to do was to learn how to sail the boat efficiently. Secondly, the sail trim infomation was all over the place. For example, suppose I was looking for infomation on twist. I'd find it on page 45, 52, 85, 148 and 322. Same with everything else I was researching - the info was all over the place. What I did was take everything you needed to know about twist, and for that matter evey other aspect of sail trim, and put it on one page or a paragraph. In the case of telltales - it is all on 6 pages plus I expalin why everything is happening in plain English. If you had read my chapter on telltales you would have aced the quiz!! I'll bet your a better sailor for taking the quiz and probably know more about reading telltales than most of your sailing friends and dock neighbors. If you don't believe me, lay a couple of the questions on them and see the answers you get back!!!
Sail Trim Quiz
Paul McGhee: Your point is well taken. Telltales are the most important sail trim indicators on the boat but the problem is you can't start talking about draft unless mates know what draft depth, depth position, twist or angle of attack is in the first place. Additionally, then you then have to discuss how the sail trim controls for the main and jib effect those 4 items. When I conduct sail trim seminars, the first hour is the worst part of it for me. I know the participant are confused and I wish there was some way I could just open their heads and pour in the info all at once but it is not possable.
Paul McGhee: Your point is well taken. Telltales are the most important sail trim indicators on the boat but the problem is you can't start talking about draft unless mates know what draft depth, depth position, twist or angle of attack is in the first place. Additionally, then you then have to discuss how the sail trim controls for the main and jib effect those 4 items. When I conduct sail trim seminars, the first hour is the worst part of it for me. I know the participant are confused and I wish there was some way I could just open their heads and pour in the info all at once but it is not possable.
Sail Trim Quiz
Tom Monroe: I'm with you mate regarding windward and leeward. When I got back into sailing about 10 years ago ( I left it for high speed jet boats), I had an awful time with starboard and port tack. The instructor wanted a quick answer, which I could not give. It was so bad I had to mark an small "S" and a "P" on the boom. If I could see the "S" from the tiller I knew I was on Starboard. The instructor was amazed at how fast my answers became!!
Tom Monroe: I'm with you mate regarding windward and leeward. When I got back into sailing about 10 years ago ( I left it for high speed jet boats), I had an awful time with starboard and port tack. The instructor wanted a quick answer, which I could not give. It was so bad I had to mark an small "S" and a "P" on the boom. If I could see the "S" from the tiller I knew I was on Starboard. The instructor was amazed at how fast my answers became!!
Sail Trim On A Reach
Rick Macdonald: After all our discussions about sail trim over on the sail trim forum, you should have nailed that quiz!!
Rick Macdonald: After all our discussions about sail trim over on the sail trim forum, you should have nailed that quiz!!
Sail Trim Quiz
sailconnie: The leech cord is an important sail trim control. Normally, most sailors only use it to prevent "motor boating" or sail fluttering but more importantly it should be used when reaching or running. In those points of sail, the leech cord is used to bend the battens thus giving the mainsail more camber (shape/depth). By tightening the leech cord, you prevent the top batten from twisting off since the leech cord holds the batten in line with the boom. Next time you out sailing on those points of sail, try messing with it and see if it works for you.
sailconnie: The leech cord is an important sail trim control. Normally, most sailors only use it to prevent "motor boating" or sail fluttering but more importantly it should be used when reaching or running. In those points of sail, the leech cord is used to bend the battens thus giving the mainsail more camber (shape/depth). By tightening the leech cord, you prevent the top batten from twisting off since the leech cord holds the batten in line with the boom. Next time you out sailing on those points of sail, try messing with it and see if it works for you.
Sail Trim Quiz
Missed 2. Never have used the leech line and didn't think it through. IMO, all the jib telltales are equally important (fairlead positioning and trim), but on some points of sail (br and run), I ignore them. Probably need to pay a little more attention.
Fun quiz. Makes you think. Its hard to sail on the desktop. Would be easier in the cockpit underway.
Missed 2. Never have used the leech line and didn't think it through. IMO, all the jib telltales are equally important (fairlead positioning and trim), but on some points of sail (br and run), I ignore them. Probably need to pay a little more attention.
Fun quiz. Makes you think. Its hard to sail on the desktop. Would be easier in the cockpit underway.
Sail Trim Quiz
Bill: Your right - all the telltales are important but some are just a little more important such as the top one on the main and the middle ones on the jibs. The idea is to get them all flowing but you'll get your first need for ones I mentioned.
Bill: Your right - all the telltales are important but some are just a little more important such as the top one on the main and the middle ones on the jibs. The idea is to get them all flowing but you'll get your first need for ones I mentioned.
Sail Trim Quiz
John W: Here's the problem with moving the traveler only. The function of the traveler is to only change the angle of attack. Moving the traveler does not effect the shape of the sail. Here's why. Visualize your screen door at home and visualize there is a pin in the corner, which rides in a groove in the floor. Why you opened and closed the screen, would the shape of the screen change? Obviously, it wouldn't but adjusting the mainsheet does change the shape. Next time your out sailing, take a few minutes and experiment with what I'm saying and see if it works for you. Also, try this while your messing around with the mainsheet. Use the mainsheet in conjunction with the boom vang and watch the top of the mainsail open and close. That's called TWIST.
John W: Here's the problem with moving the traveler only. The function of the traveler is to only change the angle of attack. Moving the traveler does not effect the shape of the sail. Here's why. Visualize your screen door at home and visualize there is a pin in the corner, which rides in a groove in the floor. Why you opened and closed the screen, would the shape of the screen change? Obviously, it wouldn't but adjusting the mainsheet does change the shape. Next time your out sailing, take a few minutes and experiment with what I'm saying and see if it works for you. Also, try this while your messing around with the mainsheet. Use the mainsheet in conjunction with the boom vang and watch the top of the mainsail open and close. That's called TWIST.
Question 4 continued
Don I don't mean to argue, but you may have missed my point. I did not assume the question was referring to sail shape as the cause of the stalling. I thought the cause might be trimming the main in too tight for the point of sail. The question did not seem to give a clue as to which was the cause, so I had to guess one or the other. Since I guessed angle of attack, I did not want to change the shape of the mainsail. I only wanted to change the angle of attack. So I would move the traveler in that situation. It seems to me that if there can be two causes of stalling, then there can be two correct answers. In my thinking, the function of the mainsheet, and the traveler overlap to some degree. If you rely on the vang to control leach tension, then the mainsheet is primarily for angle of attack adjustment, particularly when not closehauled. But as you get towards pointing mode, relying on the mainsheet for angle of attack requires increasing downward pressure, and can even override the vang setting. That's when I switch to using the traveler for angle of attack adjustment. Also, If your vang were set too tight, then easing the mainsheet would not provide the sail shape adjustment you were looking for in question 4, but of course easing the vang was not one of the choices given. I understand all this fairly well. What I don't understand is the screen door But seriously, in the situation (close reach) in question 4, if I decided the drooping telltales were indeed caused by the mainsail being overtrimmed, then I could choose to either use the mainsheet with vang on, or the traveler to adjust the attack angle. But I would not want to change the sail shape. Again, could there be two correct answers for question 4, depending on which of the two assumed causes of the drooping telltales a person goes for? The question may have been clearer if it had stipulated that the mainsail was not overtrimmed Good quiz anyway.
Don I don't mean to argue, but you may have missed my point. I did not assume the question was referring to sail shape as the cause of the stalling. I thought the cause might be trimming the main in too tight for the point of sail. The question did not seem to give a clue as to which was the cause, so I had to guess one or the other. Since I guessed angle of attack, I did not want to change the shape of the mainsail. I only wanted to change the angle of attack. So I would move the traveler in that situation. It seems to me that if there can be two causes of stalling, then there can be two correct answers. In my thinking, the function of the mainsheet, and the traveler overlap to some degree. If you rely on the vang to control leach tension, then the mainsheet is primarily for angle of attack adjustment, particularly when not closehauled. But as you get towards pointing mode, relying on the mainsheet for angle of attack requires increasing downward pressure, and can even override the vang setting. That's when I switch to using the traveler for angle of attack adjustment. Also, If your vang were set too tight, then easing the mainsheet would not provide the sail shape adjustment you were looking for in question 4, but of course easing the vang was not one of the choices given. I understand all this fairly well. What I don't understand is the screen door
But seriously, in the situation (close reach) in question 4, if I decided the drooping telltales were indeed caused by the mainsail being overtrimmed, then I could choose to either use the mainsheet with vang on, or the traveler to adjust the attack angle. But I would not want to change the sail shape. Again, could there be two correct answers for question 4, depending on which of the two assumed causes of the drooping telltales a person goes for? The question may have been clearer if it had stipulated that the mainsail was not overtrimmed Good quiz anyway.
goofy question
Question #3, about which main telltale is more important, is a bit goofy. If my top telltale is happy but my middle telltales are not, my sail is a lot farther out of trim than if my middle telltales are happy but my top is not. In either case my twist is wrong, but in the former case a much higher percentage of my main is stalled as opposed to the later. The less roach a sail carries, the more this will be the case. It seems to me that most mainsail trimmers in race boats would consider the primary adjustment to be to get the middle telltales streaming correctly, and then the final trim to be to concentrate on twist to make that last telltale happy. The one exception I can think of to this would be in extremely light air, where the breeze 60 feet up was significantly stronger than the breeze at the level of the boom. In any other situation, if my mainsail trimmer was trimming for the top telltale while allowing the middles to droop, he'd quickly be "promoted" to rail-meat status.
Question #3, about which main telltale is more important, is a bit goofy. If my top telltale is happy but my middle telltales are not, my sail is a lot farther out of trim than if my middle telltales are happy but my top is not. In either case my twist is wrong, but in the former case a much higher percentage of my main is stalled as opposed to the later. The less roach a sail carries, the more this will be the case. It seems to me that most mainsail trimmers in race boats would consider the primary adjustment to be to get the middle telltales streaming correctly, and then the final trim to be to concentrate on twist to make that last telltale happy. The one exception I can think of to this would be in extremely light air, where the breeze 60 feet up was significantly stronger than the breeze at the level of the boom. In any other situation, if my mainsail trimmer was trimming for the top telltale while allowing the middles to droop, he'd quickly be "promoted" to rail-meat status.
Final results
Final results from the Quick Quiz ending July 4, 2004: How many questions did you answer correctly in this week's sail trim quiz? 39% 1 to 3 31% 4 to 5 18% 6 to 7 12% 8 to 10 1,403 owners participating
Final results from the Quick Quiz ending July 4, 2004: How many questions did you answer correctly in this week's sail trim quiz? 39% 1 to 3 31% 4 to 5 18% 6 to 7 12% 8 to 10 1,403 owners participating
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