Thanks to all that replied to (To School or not to School) My next question is just as the title says . How big is to big for a single person to learn on I have been told any where from a dingy to a 25 footer.
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J Le Blanc, I learned to sail in a fifteen foot
canoe with outriggers and a sprit sail. I graduated from that to a thirty foot sloop. They were of course completely different but still much the same. The canoe would stop on a tack, the sloop will carry for a considerable distance. I could manhandle the canoe, the sloop weighs about 9000 pounds. When I hoist the main on the sloop and it fills everything is tranquil. When I would hoist the sail on the canoe everything was quick. I think that the bigger you get the slower things happen but the longer it takes to correct a mistake. I am sure that others can offer their impressions of their first experiences in larger boats but that is mine.
canoe with outriggers and a sprit sail. I graduated from that to a thirty foot sloop. They were of course completely different but still much the same. The canoe would stop on a tack, the sloop will carry for a considerable distance. I could manhandle the canoe, the sloop weighs about 9000 pounds. When I hoist the main on the sloop and it fills everything is tranquil. When I would hoist the sail on the canoe everything was quick. I think that the bigger you get the slower things happen but the longer it takes to correct a mistake. I am sure that others can offer their impressions of their first experiences in larger boats but that is mine.
Depends
The answer depends on the type of person you are. If you are resourceful, hands on type of guy, in decent physical condition, then you could probalby manage a 25. If you are a bit timid, then I would look at daysailors in the 15 foot range. One thing about going 25 is that most of those boats will be self righting. My first boat was an O'day 20. I pushed the limits with that boat and it taught me a great deal about what a self righting boat would do.
The answer depends on the type of person you are. If you are resourceful, hands on type of guy, in decent physical condition, then you could probalby manage a 25. If you are a bit timid, then I would look at daysailors in the 15 foot range. One thing about going 25 is that most of those boats will be self righting. My first boat was an O'day 20. I pushed the limits with that boat and it taught me a great deal about what a self righting boat would do.
Like they say, depends
I started on a 16 foot with a centerboard. Easy to rig and sail, and fun, but to a new sailor the concept of me being the ballast took some time getting used to. I probably learned a lot from that though. I then moved to a 22 foot Venture with a weighted retractable keel which was unsinkable and self righting. A lot safer but also took a lot of the feel out of it. I personally may suggest something like the little boat I have now, a little Snark. All foam, unsinkable, and very responsive. The advantage is its cheap, anything you do will have an immediate response, for better or worse, and if something goes wrong you can't really get into trouble. Just stay close to shore. A great way to learn the basics of setting sail and trim, and a lot of fun. Just Do It
I started on a 16 foot with a centerboard. Easy to rig and sail, and fun, but to a new sailor the concept of me being the ballast took some time getting used to. I probably learned a lot from that though. I then moved to a 22 foot Venture with a weighted retractable keel which was unsinkable and self righting. A lot safer but also took a lot of the feel out of it. I personally may suggest something like the little boat I have now, a little Snark. All foam, unsinkable, and very responsive. The advantage is its cheap, anything you do will have an immediate response, for better or worse, and if something goes wrong you can't really get into trouble. Just stay close to shore. A great way to learn the basics of setting sail and trim, and a lot of fun. Just Do It
Took up sailing at 50
I took up sailing at 50 - going now into my 10th season. I bought a new 1998 H260 with fixed keel. Took ASA course on a Beneteau 33. I had sailed once on a friend's ODay 26 before buying the 260. The H260 was an excellant boat to learn to sail on. It was very difficult to single hand because getting the sails up and down without an autopilot or someone else at the helm was very hard. I had a wheel brake, but the wind is never that constant when you try to put the sails up or down. I did have a roller furling jib and that was great. Sail handling was also harder because the winches were not self tending. Small boats generally have very simple equipment that makes life harder, not easier. Traded in the 260 in 2003 for a new H356. It has autopilot, self tending winches, in-mast furling - all the conveniences that make sailing easier. I handle the 356 by myself all the time. My wife mainly stays below in the air conditioning. The little boats give you a hands on feel of the wind that will make you a better sailor, but in my opinion, they are more difficult to sail than a larger boat with the proper equipment. Go try some sailing with some friends on different size boats before making you purchase decision.
I took up sailing at 50 - going now into my 10th season. I bought a new 1998 H260 with fixed keel. Took ASA course on a Beneteau 33. I had sailed once on a friend's ODay 26 before buying the 260. The H260 was an excellant boat to learn to sail on. It was very difficult to single hand because getting the sails up and down without an autopilot or someone else at the helm was very hard. I had a wheel brake, but the wind is never that constant when you try to put the sails up or down. I did have a roller furling jib and that was great. Sail handling was also harder because the winches were not self tending. Small boats generally have very simple equipment that makes life harder, not easier. Traded in the 260 in 2003 for a new H356. It has autopilot, self tending winches, in-mast furling - all the conveniences that make sailing easier. I handle the 356 by myself all the time. My wife mainly stays below in the air conditioning. The little boats give you a hands on feel of the wind that will make you a better sailor, but in my opinion, they are more difficult to sail than a larger boat with the proper equipment. Go try some sailing with some friends on different size boats before making you purchase decision.
Smaller gives a better Feel
A smaller boat gives a better feel for whats going on with the boat and sails. My favorite is a Laser. On my laser moving your butt 6" has a noticeable effect on speed in light winds. A sunfish is nice but the lateen rig isn't found on other boats. We had a Bucanner 18 with a roller jib but it is a two person boat. You can learn on anything but if you want to sail year round something like a catalina 22 would work well. A big plus is that if you run aground you can usually push a boat that size off by yourself. Plus a 22 is big enough to stand up and walk around a little. My brother's first boat was a 28' but he had me to help him learn to sail. He started with my laser. After we went sailing together 5-6 times he was able to handle the boat by himself. But the first sail with him at the helm we ran aground on a lee shore and it was a mess. Fortunately no harm except muddy decks from me going to shore to help push him off. A 22' with a swing keel has the added advantage of the swing keel working as a bottom finder. If you run aground you can just crank up the keel a few feet!!!! The down side of a swing keel is that it can catch things. We caught a large tree branch one spring. I had to go overboard to untangle it from the cable.
A smaller boat gives a better feel for whats going on with the boat and sails. My favorite is a Laser. On my laser moving your butt 6" has a noticeable effect on speed in light winds. A sunfish is nice but the lateen rig isn't found on other boats. We had a Bucanner 18 with a roller jib but it is a two person boat. You can learn on anything but if you want to sail year round something like a catalina 22 would work well. A big plus is that if you run aground you can usually push a boat that size off by yourself. Plus a 22 is big enough to stand up and walk around a little. My brother's first boat was a 28' but he had me to help him learn to sail. He started with my laser. After we went sailing together 5-6 times he was able to handle the boat by himself. But the first sail with him at the helm we ran aground on a lee shore and it was a mess. Fortunately no harm except muddy decks from me going to shore to help push him off. A 22' with a swing keel has the added advantage of the swing keel working as a bottom finder. If you run aground you can just crank up the keel a few feet!!!! The down side of a swing keel is that it can catch things. We caught a large tree branch one spring. I had to go overboard to untangle it from the cable.
Something to be said for learning in a dingy
Depending on your fitness level, there is something to be said for learning in a dingy - say 16 feet with a centreboard. In a small boat without a keel, you become very aware of all of the competing forces on the boat, and the way it balances. You learn to watch the surface of the water for gusts and wind shifts, and quickly grasp how the controls affect boat trim and speed. The real risk of capsize gives a very strong incentive to learn and pay attention. This pays off when you move to big boats, where the risk of capsize is absent, since you will apply the same lessons to make the boat sail properly. I spent 10 years in dingys before moving up to J24s, and my first keel boat was a CS30 sloop. I believe I am a better sailor as a result of my dingy days, although I still have this small voice in my head telling me to duck every time I tack.
Depending on your fitness level, there is something to be said for learning in a dingy - say 16 feet with a centreboard. In a small boat without a keel, you become very aware of all of the competing forces on the boat, and the way it balances. You learn to watch the surface of the water for gusts and wind shifts, and quickly grasp how the controls affect boat trim and speed. The real risk of capsize gives a very strong incentive to learn and pay attention. This pays off when you move to big boats, where the risk of capsize is absent, since you will apply the same lessons to make the boat sail properly. I spent 10 years in dingys before moving up to J24s, and my first keel boat was a CS30 sloop. I believe I am a better sailor as a result of my dingy days, although I still have this small voice in my head telling me to duck every time I tack.
We have a C-25
Our first boat is a 1985 Catalina 25 standard rig/fin keel. At first I wasn't going to buy a boat that old, but the 3 previous owners have taken very good care of her. As soon as my wife and I saw the boat we liked it, and then after the test sail, I bought her. We took the ASA basic keelboat sailing class about 5 months before finding the our 25. We learned on a 27' that I think was a Dolphin. Anyway, the skills we learned transferred very well to the 25 and the classes really helped my wife understand the techniques. I would not hesitate to go through the same process again, and buy another 25 footer. The boat has a harken furler (installed by us last summer), all lines run to the cockpit, and a tiller with a tiller pilot. If this is your first boat I would recommend a tiller since you get better feel from it than a wheel. At the very least, you get used to it.
Our first boat is a 1985 Catalina 25 standard rig/fin keel. At first I wasn't going to buy a boat that old, but the 3 previous owners have taken very good care of her. As soon as my wife and I saw the boat we liked it, and then after the test sail, I bought her. We took the ASA basic keelboat sailing class about 5 months before finding the our 25. We learned on a 27' that I think was a Dolphin. Anyway, the skills we learned transferred very well to the 25 and the classes really helped my wife understand the techniques. I would not hesitate to go through the same process again, and buy another 25 footer. The boat has a harken furler (installed by us last summer), all lines run to the cockpit, and a tiller with a tiller pilot. If this is your first boat I would recommend a tiller since you get better feel from it than a wheel. At the very least, you get used to it.
Learning
One learns from the day one first sets foot in a boat until the day they put you in your box. I used to sail with an 83 year old who had just marked tacking lines on his side-decks so he could better judge his tacks when racing. He began sailing in 1925 and taught me most of what I now know. To make the preliminaries as short as reasonably possible it is best to start on something where plenty happens in a relatively short time. This means you come up against a wide variety of situations quite quickly and learn from every one. So it usually means beginning with a sailing dinghy. Those who start big are often 'accident prone' because parts of their programming is either slow or missing altogether. A dinghy is quick to respond so your computer (read brain) learns how to act in double quick time. The penalties for getting it wrong are much less severe ie. a dunking rather than a huge bill and perhaps ruining someone else's boat and their year. Also a small boat has small sails which you can more easily overpower when you get into difficulties. Then again a small, light boat is more easily fended off when coming alongside or when meeting another boat. Try stopping 8 tons of 36' boat moving at only 2 knots and you will understand my point. Once you have become a proficient boat handler, and having studied and learned the COLREGS then think about transferring your skills to progressively larger boats. The previous posters are right. Start small, have fun, learn the rules, take it seriously because you will have the lives of others in your hands - your life too. Hope I haven't trodden on too many corns of more experienced readers but I really do believe that a proper apprenticeship is the best way. But most of all - enjoy.
One learns from the day one first sets foot in a boat until the day they put you in your box. I used to sail with an 83 year old who had just marked tacking lines on his side-decks so he could better judge his tacks when racing. He began sailing in 1925 and taught me most of what I now know. To make the preliminaries as short as reasonably possible it is best to start on something where plenty happens in a relatively short time. This means you come up against a wide variety of situations quite quickly and learn from every one. So it usually means beginning with a sailing dinghy. Those who start big are often 'accident prone' because parts of their programming is either slow or missing altogether. A dinghy is quick to respond so your computer (read brain) learns how to act in double quick time. The penalties for getting it wrong are much less severe ie. a dunking rather than a huge bill and perhaps ruining someone else's boat and their year. Also a small boat has small sails which you can more easily overpower when you get into difficulties. Then again a small, light boat is more easily fended off when coming alongside or when meeting another boat. Try stopping 8 tons of 36' boat moving at only 2 knots and you will understand my point. Once you have become a proficient boat handler, and having studied and learned the COLREGS then think about transferring your skills to progressively larger boats. The previous posters are right. Start small, have fun, learn the rules, take it seriously because you will have the lives of others in your hands - your life too. Hope I haven't trodden on too many corns of more experienced readers but I really do believe that a proper apprenticeship is the best way. But most of all - enjoy.
Great Instruction
Great instruction and self-study are probably more important than the boat size. I learned to sail on a Sunfish in my early teens and sailed one until my early 20's. I stayed out of sailing for about 20 years until I bought a Mac 25 last summer. I've seen people who started out as I did and other's who trained on a sloop-rigged rental or school boat then bought a 30' as their first boat. You can learn on anything. The important factor is getting to a level comfort, competence, and confidence in your abilities. A good instructor, asking questions, and reading as much as you can will really determine what is the proper size. You might want to consider how much of an initial investment you want to put into it, since there is the chance you might find sailing just isn't for you. Lots of people have learned on Catalina 22's. They are relatively simple boats, have a stable re-sale market, and have many of the same controls you will expect to find on larger boats. I'd almost call it the Cessna 152 of sailing. My advice to a first time buyer is to buy something which is already pretty much depreciated out and in good condition. No matter what you buy as a first boat, you are going to develop boat-envy or find things that are inefficent to you on your boat and want something else before long. When I wanted to get back into sailing, the first boat I thought of was a Catalina 22. I was thinking I would outgrow it in a year and look for something in the 25' to 27' range. About the same time, a Mac 25 became available at a smoking price and I figured three feet wasn't going to make it any more difficult to sail since they are rigged similar, so I bought my second boat first.
Great instruction and self-study are probably more important than the boat size. I learned to sail on a Sunfish in my early teens and sailed one until my early 20's. I stayed out of sailing for about 20 years until I bought a Mac 25 last summer. I've seen people who started out as I did and other's who trained on a sloop-rigged rental or school boat then bought a 30' as their first boat. You can learn on anything. The important factor is getting to a level comfort, competence, and confidence in your abilities. A good instructor, asking questions, and reading as much as you can will really determine what is the proper size. You might want to consider how much of an initial investment you want to put into it, since there is the chance you might find sailing just isn't for you. Lots of people have learned on Catalina 22's. They are relatively simple boats, have a stable re-sale market, and have many of the same controls you will expect to find on larger boats. I'd almost call it the Cessna 152 of sailing. My advice to a first time buyer is to buy something which is already pretty much depreciated out and in good condition. No matter what you buy as a first boat, you are going to develop boat-envy or find things that are inefficent to you on your boat and want something else before long. When I wanted to get back into sailing, the first boat I thought of was a Catalina 22. I was thinking I would outgrow it in a year and look for something in the 25' to 27' range. About the same time, a Mac 25 became available at a smoking price and I figured three feet wasn't going to make it any more difficult to sail since they are rigged similar, so I bought my second boat first.
I started w/Sunfish
Smaller boat are quicker to respond than big boats and are much less forgiving than big Boats. I learned many things the hard way (flipping over) on the sunfish. All sailing techniques are the same as you progress thru the size-range. I went to a Catalina 25 for 4 years and now sail a Hunter Legend 37 (12 foot jump-up). I have chartered in the BVI a few times and have sailed a 51, 32.5, 38 and a 40 (great sailing experiences) with no problems. You are in a grand sport. Enjoy it while you can! Start young and work up.
Smaller boat are quicker to respond than big boats and are much less forgiving than big Boats. I learned many things the hard way (flipping over) on the sunfish. All sailing techniques are the same as you progress thru the size-range. I went to a Catalina 25 for 4 years and now sail a Hunter Legend 37 (12 foot jump-up). I have chartered in the BVI a few times and have sailed a 51, 32.5, 38 and a 40 (great sailing experiences) with no problems. You are in a grand sport. Enjoy it while you can! Start young and work up.
ASA Starts you on what
When I took my ASA training, they started us on a catalina 22 with tiller. It was responsive yet had ballast, furling head sail and a nice size main. - gave you a good feel of what to expect on a larger boat. I then chartered that same size boat for the season instructing the admiral on how to sail. You get a good feel at that size without being the ballast as someone else pointed out. Earlier I had sailed a little sunfish or something like that down in the islands and just hated it. Every shift of your body impacted the boat. I was probably looking for a leisurely sail and found it to be a great deal of work....of corse I had no idea of what I was doing at the time so it was a train wreck. I next moved on to my friends MacGregor for a season or two, than bought a used Hunter 29.5 (which is for sale on this site - thought I would get that in). We've charted larger boats in the BVIs and last season we moved up to a Hunter 356 and can't wait to enjoy her. In short, start small on someone else's boat (rent/charter/borrow/barter) and move up from there.
When I took my ASA training, they started us on a catalina 22 with tiller. It was responsive yet had ballast, furling head sail and a nice size main. - gave you a good feel of what to expect on a larger boat. I then chartered that same size boat for the season instructing the admiral on how to sail. You get a good feel at that size without being the ballast as someone else pointed out. Earlier I had sailed a little sunfish or something like that down in the islands and just hated it. Every shift of your body impacted the boat. I was probably looking for a leisurely sail and found it to be a great deal of work....of corse I had no idea of what I was doing at the time so it was a train wreck. I next moved on to my friends MacGregor for a season or two, than bought a used Hunter 29.5 (which is for sale on this site - thought I would get that in). We've charted larger boats in the BVIs and last season we moved up to a Hunter 356 and can't wait to enjoy her. In short, start small on someone else's boat (rent/charter/borrow/barter) and move up from there.
Learn with no engine
Hello All, I learned on Pearson Ensign 23's at Castle Harbor Sailing School in Miami. One thing I really liked about it is that I learned to launch and return to the doc with no engine. There was a channel to go out, about 500 feet long and not very wide,and a busy boat ramp to contend with, and if the wind was against you, you got to practice very quick tacks while avoiding powerboaters launching and returning who in many cases have no clue about who has the right of way. At times it was a very busy place and so you honed your skills and gained the confidince. I miss those little boats that had no engines. Cap Jules
Hello All, I learned on Pearson Ensign 23's at Castle Harbor Sailing School in Miami. One thing I really liked about it is that I learned to launch and return to the doc with no engine. There was a channel to go out, about 500 feet long and not very wide,and a busy boat ramp to contend with, and if the wind was against you, you got to practice very quick tacks while avoiding powerboaters launching and returning who in many cases have no clue about who has the right of way. At times it was a very busy place and so you honed your skills and gained the confidince. I miss those little boats that had no engines. Cap Jules
learing curve
Something small and single-sailed is the easiest to learn on, then when you have that down pretty good, get something with a jib, but again, something small you can launch and handle by yourself, WITH NO ENGINE. Having no engine makes you think and plan ahead, (like maybe I shouldn't go down that canal or fairway or creek or whatever, because I won't be able to sail back out) A season or two at that, then do some racing, first as crew, then as skipper. You'll be a better all around sailor for it.
Something small and single-sailed is the easiest to learn on, then when you have that down pretty good, get something with a jib, but again, something small you can launch and handle by yourself, WITH NO ENGINE. Having no engine makes you think and plan ahead, (like maybe I shouldn't go down that canal or fairway or creek or whatever, because I won't be able to sail back out) A season or two at that, then do some racing, first as crew, then as skipper. You'll be a better all around sailor for it.
Single handing
I am 60, but I started sailing at about 11 (off and on). Spent most of my early years learning on 25 to 35 foot sailboats, and an occaisional small cat. I wish I had the opportunity to learn on very small sailboats, but alas the oppurtunity never presented itself. I have spent many years, crusing, day sailing and racing on all sorts and sizes of sailboats, my own and others. All of that experience permits me to now single hand a Cat 38, with roller furling and auto pilot. Experience and physical fitness is the key, along with the ability to think many moves and situations ahead...and having to execute much more slowly. So enjoy the ride, learn as much as you can along the way. Don't be like so many newbies I'v seen in SoCal...cash in, retire and buy the BIG first boat, never learning the nuances of sailing smaller boats.
I am 60, but I started sailing at about 11 (off and on). Spent most of my early years learning on 25 to 35 foot sailboats, and an occaisional small cat. I wish I had the opportunity to learn on very small sailboats, but alas the oppurtunity never presented itself. I have spent many years, crusing, day sailing and racing on all sorts and sizes of sailboats, my own and others. All of that experience permits me to now single hand a Cat 38, with roller furling and auto pilot. Experience and physical fitness is the key, along with the ability to think many moves and situations ahead...and having to execute much more slowly. So enjoy the ride, learn as much as you can along the way. Don't be like so many newbies I'v seen in SoCal...cash in, retire and buy the BIG first boat, never learning the nuances of sailing smaller boats.
I can't help it
btw, the leering curve can be found on the boat babe thread. I had to do it. Seriously, after a sunfish and windsurfer, learned on a 29 footer (hunter 290), with all lines led to the cockpit, roller furling jib and mainsail; an easy (and wonderful) boat to learn on. Seadaddler also mentioned this model. And then I found out that beyond that, I didn't want to be out if seas demanded more than I, not my boat, could handle. A larger boat will handle conditions that the novice can't handle. We all envy larger boats, but keep it smaller and you'll stay safer.
btw, the leering curve can be found on the boat babe thread. I had to do it. Seriously, after a sunfish and windsurfer, learned on a 29 footer (hunter 290), with all lines led to the cockpit, roller furling jib and mainsail; an easy (and wonderful) boat to learn on. Seadaddler also mentioned this model. And then I found out that beyond that, I didn't want to be out if seas demanded more than I, not my boat, could handle. A larger boat will handle conditions that the novice can't handle. We all envy larger boats, but keep it smaller and you'll stay safer.
Ditto on windsurfers and sunfish and others
As some have written they started with larger boats and took basic Keelboating courses. There is no replacement for dealing with a small craft to add to your tool box when you move up in boat size. The only problem I see with this approach is when I think of the many times I paddled back to shore in my 14' daysailor when the wind died. This tactic will not work well on a big boat with any wind or current on a bigger boat which is why we all have engines. Keep the engine well maintained but remember that you are on a sailboat which can move without an engine if you know what to do.
As some have written they started with larger boats and took basic Keelboating courses. There is no replacement for dealing with a small craft to add to your tool box when you move up in boat size. The only problem I see with this approach is when I think of the many times I paddled back to shore in my 14' daysailor when the wind died. This tactic will not work well on a big boat with any wind or current on a bigger boat which is why we all have engines. Keep the engine well maintained but remember that you are on a sailboat which can move without an engine if you know what to do.
Size just right!
Two important personal rules: you should be able to stand up in the boat and your wife should be able to lie down in the boat! The boat should fit the area waters where you will learn. I would recommend a classic learner boat that holds it resale value as you will soon want to move up to a larger boat. Learning to sail on a smaller boat begats the comfort and safety of sailing larger boats. Also, very important - test run the sailboat out in a good wind! Then you will know the feel of the boat, it's ability to handle your inputs and its responsiveness to weather. Good Luck!
Two important personal rules: you should be able to stand up in the boat and your wife should be able to lie down in the boat! The boat should fit the area waters where you will learn. I would recommend a classic learner boat that holds it resale value as you will soon want to move up to a larger boat. Learning to sail on a smaller boat begats the comfort and safety of sailing larger boats. Also, very important - test run the sailboat out in a good wind! Then you will know the feel of the boat, it's ability to handle your inputs and its responsiveness to weather. Good Luck!
I have a railroad bridge that limits the overall
height that can come into our marina. 48 feet at high tide!! I will happily sail anything that floats but given my druthers being able to cook, sleep, and conveniently deal with biologic needs I choose a bigger boat. My boat will sleep 2. Or 3 if they are very good friends. It can feed 4 at table and serve drinks to 6 or 8. A larger boat provides more stowage space which translates to longer times between reprovisioning. We don't have a shower. But we have a bucket with a rope on it that will scoop up enough water to bathe anyone on deck. It is easy to find privacy when you have 10,000 miles of shoreline.
height that can come into our marina. 48 feet at high tide!! I will happily sail anything that floats but given my druthers being able to cook, sleep, and conveniently deal with biologic needs I choose a bigger boat. My boat will sleep 2. Or 3 if they are very good friends. It can feed 4 at table and serve drinks to 6 or 8. A larger boat provides more stowage space which translates to longer times between reprovisioning. We don't have a shower. But we have a bucket with a rope on it that will scoop up enough water to bathe anyone on deck. It is easy to find privacy when you have 10,000 miles of shoreline.
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