How Best to Slow While Running Wing to Wing

[Zoom767]

Good Afternoon,

I was wondering if someone could give me some advice on the safest method to slow down while sailing downwind wing to wing with the Main and Genoa -- the latter of which deployed with a whisker pole and the former with a preventer. My concern is when the waves pick up and the boat speed becomes uncomfortable (say over 8 knots), I want to be able to reduce the canvass but I'm not sure of the best method to do so.

I normally take care of the Genoa first by bringing it behind the mainsail then furling (my set-up with the whisker pole allows this to be done by just releasing the jaws at the end of the pole and leaving the pole in place until I can get to it); however, I'm not sure if the main will reef (I have two reefing points) while it is against the stays along with the force of the wind. I used to turn upwind to lower the mainsail then return to sailing downwind but this was in my previous smaller boat. In this boat, at that speed and with larger waves, I'm afraid of a broach occurring.

I sail single-handed the majority of time and any advice on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

Best Regards,
Rob

 

[justsomeguy]

Heave to? Beyond that, fire up the engine and head to wind.

 

[Zoom767]

Heave to? Beyond that, fire up the engine and head to wind.

Thanks Justsomeguy,

This is what I would like to do; however, my concern is what will happen during the turn from downwind to upwind. With the waves acting on the boat along with the side-ward forces through the water during the turn and the speed involved, I'm worried about a broach and was wondering what best way to handle this manoeuver.

For example, is the only issue to be concerned about is to make sure a controlled, slow turn to up-wind is established and allow for a number of waves to pass to let the boat slow before it becomes 90 degrees to the wind while still moving sideways?

I just don't know what the boat will do once I start the turn to upwind.

 

[justsomeguy]

Seems there's no way to avoid waves without something like a shoreline or island to hide behind.
I wouldn't want to have to gybe the mainsail, but the foresail's working sheet can be hauled in, making the transition to hove to while keeping the main downwind.

I think you'll have to trust your boat to handle the forces involved and keep you safe.

 

[Claude L.-Auger]

I too sail single-handed most times and have been in that situation. Here is what worked for me: releasing tension on jib sheet will dump some of the air in it and you can start furling. The more you can furl the better as it will normally slow the boat down some. On my 34, I use the boom-vang as a preventer but it is led to the cockpit and long enough that I can gybe the boom if I uncleat it. If the waves and wind allow it I have been able to bring the boom as close to the center line as possible and drop the main enough to put a 2nd reef in even though it was running against the spreaders and shrouds. Not an the ideal situation but it allowed double-reefing and resetting the wing-on-wing situation with reduced main and reduced jib. If the wind is too strong, bringing the boom close to the centerline will make the boat head into the wind. At that point, if jib completely furled, then do go into the wind and reef the main. the boat can handle it. Heaving to works also and you should be able to reduce the main when doing so.

 

[Zoom767]

I too sail single-handed most times and have been in that situation. Here is what worked for me: releasing tension on jib sheet will dump some of the air in it and you can start furling. The more you can furl the better as it will normally slow the boat down some. On my 34, I use the boom-vang as a preventer but it is led to the cockpit and long enough that I can gybe the boom if I uncleat it. If the waves and wind allow it I have been able to bring the boom as close to the center line as possible and drop the main enough to put a 2nd reef in even though it was running against the spreaders and shrouds. Not an the ideal situation but it allowed double-reefing and resetting the wing-on-wing situation with reduced main and reduced jib. If the wind is too strong, bringing the boom close to the centerline will make the boat head into the wind. At that point, if jib completely furled, then do go into the wind and reef the main. the boat can handle it. Heaving to works also and you should be able to reduce the main when doing so.

Claude,

I can't thank you enough for taking the time to explain this to me. It is exactly the answer that I was looking for. I use the boom-vang as a preventer as well and I can tell from your response that we are sailing downwind in the same manner. I'm about to go on a 6 day trip; of which, will entail downwind sailing in Lake Ontario where I am not comfortable. With your detailed response I can now look forward to the trip -- with confidence -- and feel that I will be handling it correctly.

Best Regards,
Rob

 

[Stu Jackson]

Rob, Claude gave a good description, and what I use, too. Here's an easier one: don't use your mainsail going downwind. Just your jib. I find when w/n/w that i have to stand up and steer, because it takes a LOT of concentration. When I'm cruising, I don't need that kinda stress, so just jib downwind works really well with not that much decrease in speed.

 

[Zoom767]

Another excellent point!!! Because sailors shouldn't be in a hurry Also, a lot easier to get rid of canvass in a hurry should the need arise.

Thanks to all for the input.

Rob

 

[Flying Colours]

For cruising purposes you have the best answer Stu>

 

[Picflight]

Turning into the wind would mean you would have to zig-zag to your destination, assuming destination was downwind?

 

[thinwater]

Go slow? I can do that when I'm dead. While it is good to relax when sailing, It would certainly be simpler to drive to a hotel if it wasn't for the love of wind.

First, don't wait too long, as with all reefing.

I've generally found that so long as the genoa is full and pulling, I can crank in a reef in the main (single line reefing) without trouble. I do bring in the main enough to get the sail off the spreaders. I also reef the main first, both for balance and because having a full genoa reduces the wind pressure on the main.

To reef the genoa I often jibe it into the shadow of the main. Or if not too strong, I may just ease the sheet a bit.

As for control issues, I find that so long as I rig a preventer and a down haul on the genoa, the autohelm can handle it, no problem. Easy miles.

Of course, above 25 knots genoa alone is certainly enough.

 

[justsomeguy]

Turning into the wind would mean you would have to zig-zag to your destination, assuming destination was downwind?

Only for the time it would take to reef.

 

[Picflight]

Ah, yes. Thank you.

 

[Zoom767]

Thank you all,

What a fantastic forum for quick replies and a wealth of knowledge to learn from.

All input/comments have been very much appreciated.

Fair Winds,

Rob

 

[Benny17441]

Both Claude and Stu are on the mark. Going back to basics the object is not to get caught while overcanvased. Reef early and reef deep. If you are sleding downwind at 8 knots you can easily do 6 knots under Genoa alone or while keeping a deeply refeed main. Running too fast before weather is treacherous as it can lead to a broach so my point is watch the wind and boat speed and reef before you get to those conditions. If you are taking a trip, don't be in a hurry, it is better to kick back than to watch white knuckles at the wheel.

 

[Dan Johnson]

Down wind...

as Claude A pointed out on a H34 with its swept-back spreaders, downwind sailing puts the main against them in anything more than a wide broad reach. Stu has the answer.

Rather than have wear and control issues, as a single-hander I tend to drop the main early or not set it at all and use the headsail for downwind power. Furling gives more control and you don't risk a gybe with a sudden windshift, nasty even with a preventer.

 

[BayMan]

How do I tell when I'm going "too fast" down wind? I reef and otherwise make corrections to keep a comfortable heel while still going as fast as I reasonably can ob other tacks. Why not keep up the speed when going directly down wind?

 

[Nom De Guerre]

How do I tell when I'm going "too fast" down wind? I reef and otherwise make corrections to keep a comfortable heel while still going as fast as I reasonably can ob other tacks. Why not keep up the speed when going directly down wind?

I don't know if this answers your question, but I reef for true wind condition, no matter the point of sail I'm on. Then I know that I'm not likely to have a problem when I do change point of sail.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Why not keep up the speed when going directly down wind?

Good question. If you're going downwind and find a lee shore, you're going to need to drop the main sometime, so the concept of these answers has been how to drop it when there's no "relief" from the wind.

However, on SF Bay for example, we can be screaming downwind and then find a place that has a LOT less wind (behind an island) and easily drop stuff or safely head up to a reach, w/ or w/o the pole.

Your boat, your choice, depending on where you're sailing.

 

[BayMan]

I thought others were saying that while running downwind that if you were moving too fast that you ran the risk of ? broaching? Not really sure if that was the risk or maybe I was just misreading it.