still working on the 1978 h30. Discovered what was left of the hot water heater(I think) in the starboard lazarette. Fiddled with it for a while and soaked a blanket in water and used a fire-wrench on it. With the old 'heater?' out I started looking into replacements in earnest. Since I plan on cruising this boat with very little dock time I got very interested in RV water heaters that use both 110v and propane. Does anyone know of problems with these in a marine environment and is installing fore/aft or port/starboard an issue? I ponder this due to the roll of the vessel. Any help or even opinions would be appreciated.
hot water for the h30
- Thread starter sailhunter1945
- Start date
- Status
look into a tankless heater. That's the route I'm looking at. Make sure it doesn't have a cut-out switch due to roll, I also think that some cut out due to lack of water pressure ( makes sense) but supplying constant pressure on a pitching boat in a marine enviroment may be hard. Lets bounce the ideas back and forth.
Lugeman
Hunter 30 1979
Muskegon
Lugeman
Hunter 30 1979
Muskegon
Water heating.
I have never found the need for propane on my H37C. Space is the main factor, safety secondarily. If there is a good tankless solution it probably needs propane, for sure it will need shorepower.
I have been cruising and found the standard six gal. tank connected to the engine to be just fine. There is so much engine time when cruising. It doesn't take long to heat that six gallons. And the water tends to stay very warm for long periods after heating. I suppose if you expect to sail for many hours without power then another heat source makes sense.
I have never found the need for propane on my H37C. Space is the main factor, safety secondarily. If there is a good tankless solution it probably needs propane, for sure it will need shorepower.
I have been cruising and found the standard six gal. tank connected to the engine to be just fine. There is so much engine time when cruising. It doesn't take long to heat that six gallons. And the water tends to stay very warm for long periods after heating. I suppose if you expect to sail for many hours without power then another heat source makes sense.
the case for propane
I didn't consider tankless because it is my understanding that my little 12 hp Yanmar doesn't make enough heat to take care of the water and standalone tankless is no more safe than 'the tank'. My friend of many years was a live-aboard on a 44' Gulfstar ketch and did all his 'floating' power with propane. He did have a huge Perkins diesel and a diesel gen-set that made more electric than he needed, however, cooking and refridgerator was propane while underway. He is no help on the hot water because his was electric all the way. He did give me a solinoid to install by my tanks to make sure there is no gas coming into the cabin when I don't want it. The Phoebe has no gen-set and like I said previously shore power access will be rare(if all goes as planned) I am getting worried that nobody seems to have picked up on the RV heaters. There must be a reason, or several reasons.
I didn't consider tankless because it is my understanding that my little 12 hp Yanmar doesn't make enough heat to take care of the water and standalone tankless is no more safe than 'the tank'. My friend of many years was a live-aboard on a 44' Gulfstar ketch and did all his 'floating' power with propane. He did have a huge Perkins diesel and a diesel gen-set that made more electric than he needed, however, cooking and refridgerator was propane while underway. He is no help on the hot water because his was electric all the way. He did give me a solinoid to install by my tanks to make sure there is no gas coming into the cabin when I don't want it. The Phoebe has no gen-set and like I said previously shore power access will be rare(if all goes as planned) I am getting worried that nobody seems to have picked up on the RV heaters. There must be a reason, or several reasons.
This water heater?
Is this the heater you are contemplating? :
http://www.tanklesswaterheatersdirect.com/shop/tanklesswaterheaters/precisontemp/showermatemain.asp
A nice solution but really expensive even without the cost of LP installation. How do you plan to install the LP locker? I guess you could do it the old-fashion way and hang the tank(s) on the pushpit.
I have not seen all of the RV alternatives. The couple that I looked at were missing the word "stainless" in their descriptions.
Is this the heater you are contemplating? :
http://www.tanklesswaterheatersdirect.com/shop/tanklesswaterheaters/precisontemp/showermatemain.asp
A nice solution but really expensive even without the cost of LP installation. How do you plan to install the LP locker? I guess you could do it the old-fashion way and hang the tank(s) on the pushpit.
I have not seen all of the RV alternatives. The couple that I looked at were missing the word "stainless" in their descriptions.
Re: This water heater?
Now you've gone and done it Ed. I hadn't considered a tankless until 'Lugeman' suggested I look into one and then you go and find one that looks so good I may have to trash my budget to do it right. I thank both of you and I am going to look further into the tankless but it seems more do-able and logical than I would have immaginged. I am curious about the non vented deal but will contact the company and find out. Thanks again. If you have any suggestions on damage control for my budget...please send on. It is my intention to design and fabricate a locker. I would like to carry 40# of gas if I do in fact live-aboard cruise and especially if I realize my dream and circumnavigate. Propane is supposedly available worldwide, but I like having options like not needing to resupply in unfriendly environments.
Now you've gone and done it Ed. I hadn't considered a tankless until 'Lugeman' suggested I look into one and then you go and find one that looks so good I may have to trash my budget to do it right. I thank both of you and I am going to look further into the tankless but it seems more do-able and logical than I would have immaginged. I am curious about the non vented deal but will contact the company and find out. Thanks again. If you have any suggestions on damage control for my budget...please send on. It is my intention to design and fabricate a locker. I would like to carry 40# of gas if I do in fact live-aboard cruise and especially if I realize my dream and circumnavigate. Propane is supposedly available worldwide, but I like having options like not needing to resupply in unfriendly environments.
LP for hot water.
Our Cherubini's are so narrow in the stern that finding LP locker space is difficult. You need to cut a hinged door in the coaming near the stern I think. One on each side and then the locker could be high enough to vent out the bottom and still be above the waterline. Ten pounders would be easier obviously. A long time contributor who now has a Cheoy Lee made custom ones for the transom. I was never a fan but here is what they looked like:
http://www.geocities.com/rainbow_chaser.geo/propane.html
If you ever need to see Cherubini projects and lots of other interesting stuff from Gene start at his home page:
http://www.geocities.com/rainbow_chaser.geo/index.html
Our Cherubini's are so narrow in the stern that finding LP locker space is difficult. You need to cut a hinged door in the coaming near the stern I think. One on each side and then the locker could be high enough to vent out the bottom and still be above the waterline. Ten pounders would be easier obviously. A long time contributor who now has a Cheoy Lee made custom ones for the transom. I was never a fan but here is what they looked like:
http://www.geocities.com/rainbow_chaser.geo/propane.html
If you ever need to see Cherubini projects and lots of other interesting stuff from Gene start at his home page:
http://www.geocities.com/rainbow_chaser.geo/index.html
These guys have all your options. http://www.suremarine.com/ I am kinda with Ed, use engine heat, though I do have a forced air diesel funace ( but it doesn't heat water) what it does do is suck a bunch of amps. I kind of like the idea of the wall mounted diesel heater with the water heater tube installed. If in hot climes, then you won't want to heat the cabin to heat water.
Engine Heat
If the engine on your boat is raw water cooled it may not get hot enough to really heat the water in the domestic hot water tank. The newer fresh water cooled engines run much hotter (>160) and will heat the domestic water for washing and dishes.
If the engine on your boat is raw water cooled it may not get hot enough to really heat the water in the domestic hot water tank. The newer fresh water cooled engines run much hotter (>160) and will heat the domestic water for washing and dishes.
Re: engine heat
John, It is a Yanmar, single cylinder, raw water cooled chugger that you can just about put your hand on while it is running. That is why I have pretty much ruled out engine hot water.
John, It is a Yanmar, single cylinder, raw water cooled chugger that you can just about put your hand on while it is running. That is why I have pretty much ruled out engine hot water.
Agreed, no engine heat possible.
Now that we know it is a one cylinder raw-water cooled engine we can understand your dilemma. You are right, not enough hot water from the engine. And it would not be cost effective to add a heat exchanger and make it fresh-water cooled. Possible but expensive. Maybe with the next engine.
So let us know the final outcome.
Now that we know it is a one cylinder raw-water cooled engine we can understand your dilemma. You are right, not enough hot water from the engine. And it would not be cost effective to add a heat exchanger and make it fresh-water cooled. Possible but expensive. Maybe with the next engine.
So let us know the final outcome.
Sail,
OK, more rain on your parade(up here it's already snow). If your seriously planning on long term cruising, the YSM12 has to go. Everyone I've talked too said the boat is underpowered for tidal area's and currents. If you have info. that's proves different great, but all the posts I've read say this. Check the archives for options on engines. If you have knowledge to the contrary, please let me know.
Lugeman
OK, more rain on your parade(up here it's already snow). If your seriously planning on long term cruising, the YSM12 has to go. Everyone I've talked too said the boat is underpowered for tidal area's and currents. If you have info. that's proves different great, but all the posts I've read say this. Check the archives for options on engines. If you have knowledge to the contrary, please let me know.
Lugeman
I agree that a few more horsepower would be nice. I have not given up on finding a three blade prop. I am discouraged but have not given up. I do not race and am perfectly willing to give up a little sail performance for the boost I will receive under power. Most agree with me if I can find a three bladed prop I will realize the aux power performance I am predicting. I am not able to justify some of the cost estimates I have found to purchase this prop and it is apparently not likely I'll find one sitting on some shelf. Quite a dilemma. I am going to attempt to sail 'Phoebe' in her stock configuration. Should this prove to not be viable I am impressed with the number of power upgrade options discussed in these forums. I have the belief that the original ysm12 (it runs great) will be adequate to get me in and out of ports and anchorages. I like the fact that it is economical (1 qt per hour). I haven't heard from anyone that the little Yanmar is actually unreliable so if I have to wait for the tide to ease, so be it. If someone has any info that would make me fear for my safety or the safety of my vessel, please make me aware. Thanks to all who make these forums what they are.
Used three blade prop
Found a used three blade prop at Admiral C&B - link at the end. They say they have free shipping, worth a call.
http://www.discountprops.com/
Found a used three blade prop at Admiral C&B - link at the end. They say they have free shipping, worth a call.
http://www.discountprops.com/
We recently sold "Second Chance" (H30 - 1981) but during our ownership replaced both the waterheater and prop. We got the heater, an electric "Force" from WM. It was 12 gal and very well insulated. It was located above and behind the engine to port, the fuel tank was to starboard. Looked into hooking it up to the 2GM (13 hp @ 3400,) not enough heat, need the 2GMF (15 hp @ 3600.) When out of hot water, heated it on the stove.
Also had to deal with the prop, with the help of Mack Boring and General Propeller, determined we needed a 2 blade 15 x 11 or 3 blade 15 x 10. Went with the 3 blade and wish we had done that 2 years earlier. Plenty of power and speed in all conditions, no vibration, and super handling in reverse.
- Status