I recently bought a 1969 Cal 28 with a Honda 9.9 outboard. The owner told me it had a new impeller fitted and he had run it for 3 and a half hours with no problems. I can't get it to run for more than 5-10 minutes before it shuts off, and while I was messing with it over the weekend two boaters came over (one of whom had helped fit the new impeller) and both asked if I was "still fighting with that thing". Now it turns out the previous owner had the same problem I'm experiencing - hence the reason he only ran it for a few minutes to show me it's condition. I've discounted fuel delivery - every time it's stalled out the carb has been full of fuel. I'm running it on a fresh batch of gas and the carb's shown no signs of dirt or water contamination. I cleaned all the wiring, coil, etc, and sprayed everything with WD40. It's got good compression and I rebuilt the carb with new seals and gaskets. When it does (grudgingly) start it runs beautifully - idling and accelerating without a hiccup. When it stalls however it won't restart for quite a while - hours sometimes. As the motor has probably been sitting for a long time in sea water before I got it and probably never flushed out, I'm wondering if it's a cooling issue. I don't have a manual for this engine yet (one's on order), but I'm wondering if these engines have a cut out if the engine overheats. Anybody confirm or deny it? If that's the case, would 5-10 minutes with some flow be enough to trip the cut out? I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't just find another outboard as this one barely fits in the boat anyway, and it takes two people and a lot of juggling to get it out. I'd even swap this thing out for something smaller if I could find someone willing to take it on. It's at Marina Del Rey at the moment and I need to move it to San Diego as soon as possible as the trips up there to fight with the outboard are getting to be a pain. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
- Status
It's rare but check the coil.
Make sure the + and - wires aren't reversed. Try a substitute coil to see if it solves the problem. It's best to borrow one because stores won't take them back if that's not it. Any shop can test it while it's in failure mode. And there isn't much else.
Make sure the + and - wires aren't reversed. Try a substitute coil to see if it solves the problem. It's best to borrow one because stores won't take them back if that's not it. Any shop can test it while it's in failure mode. And there isn't much else.
Just a thought
A number of years ago I had a Suzuki outboard that used to die on me regularly. Couldn't figure it out....worked great when in the shop! The problem turned out to be in the dead man's cut off switch. (vibration seemed to get to it) Bypassed the switch and never had a problem again. Just a thought. RG
A number of years ago I had a Suzuki outboard that used to die on me regularly. Couldn't figure it out....worked great when in the shop! The problem turned out to be in the dead man's cut off switch. (vibration seemed to get to it) Bypassed the switch and never had a problem again. Just a thought. RG
Had same type of problem
I had the same type of problem with my Mercury 7.5. It turned out to be debris in my carburator bowl, which would clog my float valve. If you've got a good tell-tale stream coming out of the motor it's probably not an overheating problem.
I had the same type of problem with my Mercury 7.5. It turned out to be debris in my carburator bowl, which would clog my float valve. If you've got a good tell-tale stream coming out of the motor it's probably not an overheating problem.
Thanks...
The carb is clean as a whistle - I took it apart after it stalled each time and blew all the jets out, including the float valve. The kill switch is broken (no cover on it - you have to bridge the exposed terminals) but it's disconnected anyway. I'll track the wires back through the handle though to make sure. The coil terminals are color matched to the wires so I know they're on right, but it's not to say it isn't faulty. It feels like an electrical problem - as though something either cuts out or gets hot after a while and has to either reset or cool down. With a full float bowl it still won't restart immediately so I pretty much discounted a fuel problem. It doesn't explain the bad starting from cold (although a bad coil would I guess), but at this point I'm stumped. As it's not an electric start it's impossible to turn it over and check for a spark at the same time - not enough arms! Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to call the dealer tomorrow and price a coil and see if they have any ideas.
The carb is clean as a whistle - I took it apart after it stalled each time and blew all the jets out, including the float valve. The kill switch is broken (no cover on it - you have to bridge the exposed terminals) but it's disconnected anyway. I'll track the wires back through the handle though to make sure. The coil terminals are color matched to the wires so I know they're on right, but it's not to say it isn't faulty. It feels like an electrical problem - as though something either cuts out or gets hot after a while and has to either reset or cool down. With a full float bowl it still won't restart immediately so I pretty much discounted a fuel problem. It doesn't explain the bad starting from cold (although a bad coil would I guess), but at this point I'm stumped. As it's not an electric start it's impossible to turn it over and check for a spark at the same time - not enough arms! Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to call the dealer tomorrow and price a coil and see if they have any ideas.
Honda Problems
I have a Honda 5hp and each year it requires compressed air being blown thru all the carb jets. There are some very tiny tunnels in the carb and they clog easily. All the jets can look clean but they may not be. Some other sailors use fuel conditioner. There are some other posts on this site. I have tried running the engine until all fuel is run out before putting the engine in the locker, but this does not seem to help. Many Honda owners I have met have the same problems. Good luck.
I have a Honda 5hp and each year it requires compressed air being blown thru all the carb jets. There are some very tiny tunnels in the carb and they clog easily. All the jets can look clean but they may not be. Some other sailors use fuel conditioner. There are some other posts on this site. I have tried running the engine until all fuel is run out before putting the engine in the locker, but this does not seem to help. Many Honda owners I have met have the same problems. Good luck.
Coil
I had the same problem with one of the early Honda 9.9 4 cycles ('81). It would run about a minute and stop. Finally found that the coil was testing continuous (ok) when cold, but when warm it would open up. I suspect your coil winding insulation is breaking down when it gets warm. If you can borrow one from someone and test that theory, I think you will find you need a new coil. Also had a problem with the stop switch. I cleaned it well with contact cleaner and scraped it with an awl and it runs great.
I had the same problem with one of the early Honda 9.9 4 cycles ('81). It would run about a minute and stop. Finally found that the coil was testing continuous (ok) when cold, but when warm it would open up. I suspect your coil winding insulation is breaking down when it gets warm. If you can borrow one from someone and test that theory, I think you will find you need a new coil. Also had a problem with the stop switch. I cleaned it well with contact cleaner and scraped it with an awl and it runs great.
Crank testing for spark
Jacksdad, You can remove the spark plug from the motor and ground the spark plug to the housing somewhere. It will crank a lot easier. Spray some oil into the cylinder will help too. Once you see spark you can use a hair dryer to "warm" up the coil to see if the spark disappear. Sometimes it is just the sparkplug connector at fault. The sparkplug wire is just a carbon core climped to a brass connector. It could be loose or bad contact. May save you a few dollars.
Jacksdad, You can remove the spark plug from the motor and ground the spark plug to the housing somewhere. It will crank a lot easier. Spray some oil into the cylinder will help too. Once you see spark you can use a hair dryer to "warm" up the coil to see if the spark disappear. Sometimes it is just the sparkplug connector at fault. The sparkplug wire is just a carbon core climped to a brass connector. It could be loose or bad contact. May save you a few dollars.
Check the spark plugs
I had the same problem with a Kawasaki ATV. I had put in a new Champion spark plug. Soon after, it would only run for about 5 minutes. After cooling off, it would run again. I couldn't believe the spark plug could be the problem so checked other things first. The second new plug worked. (different brand) But on second thought, you have a 2 cylinder motor. Both plugs wouldn't be faulty.
I had the same problem with a Kawasaki ATV. I had put in a new Champion spark plug. Soon after, it would only run for about 5 minutes. After cooling off, it would run again. I couldn't believe the spark plug could be the problem so checked other things first. The second new plug worked. (different brand) But on second thought, you have a 2 cylinder motor. Both plugs wouldn't be faulty.
Don't check for spark with the plugs installed.
Just pull them and reconnect the high tension wire. Then hold the plug against the hole it came from so as to insure a good ground. Then crank the engine. The spark performance will be readily apparent, good or bad. And the motor won't jump around. Like Kaizen said. Three parameters to check on a gas engine; 1. Properly timed strong spark. 2. Good fuel properly delivered. 3. Good compression. Ya gotta have all three at the same time and it'll run.
Just pull them and reconnect the high tension wire. Then hold the plug against the hole it came from so as to insure a good ground. Then crank the engine. The spark performance will be readily apparent, good or bad. And the motor won't jump around. Like Kaizen said. Three parameters to check on a gas engine; 1. Properly timed strong spark. 2. Good fuel properly delivered. 3. Good compression. Ya gotta have all three at the same time and it'll run.
stalling
The problem could still be the spark plug(s), especially if you're sure the fuel delivery is up to snuff. I once replaced a broken plug(small outboard)with the nearest equivalent available. For several years I had similar problems with stalling and surging, and replaced the plug several times. I finally "flashed back" to my street-racing days and pulled the plug immediately after the thing stalled(fortunately, not a crucial moment, for a change). I found a soaking wet plug-Not hot enough. the original one probably was the correct rating but the one i replaced it with was a lower rating(number)for temp than the one i finally got. End of problem.
The problem could still be the spark plug(s), especially if you're sure the fuel delivery is up to snuff. I once replaced a broken plug(small outboard)with the nearest equivalent available. For several years I had similar problems with stalling and surging, and replaced the plug several times. I finally "flashed back" to my street-racing days and pulled the plug immediately after the thing stalled(fortunately, not a crucial moment, for a change). I found a soaking wet plug-Not hot enough. the original one probably was the correct rating but the one i replaced it with was a lower rating(number)for temp than the one i finally got. End of problem.
A Honda Owner
The Honda 7.5 hp (80's models) were the most popular engines and I owned three of them over the years. Someone in St. Augustine painted a 10 hp white and stenciled in "Maytag". But, all this does not help your problem! The first thing I would do is have the CD unit bench checked. You model should have the capacitor discharge unit that can go on the blink. Check all connectors first for any corrosion and fit. Everyone on the board is moving toward carbs since we have all had issues with these little jewels over contaminated fuel, mud bugs, varnishing of the needle, etc. My Honda every year when left unnattended required a carb removal with thorough cleaning, pressure air and careful setting of the needle valve in the bowl. You may want to take another look at it, especially the needle valve wear. Remember, always remove your fuel line from the engine when you get safely tied up at the dock so that the remaining fuel in the line and carb will burn up and you avoid any varnish buildup of in the fuel distribution system. Honda has great technical support folks and it is certainly worth calling them for additional guidance on the problem. Once it gets running, its a great engine that will last forever. Regards Bob
The Honda 7.5 hp (80's models) were the most popular engines and I owned three of them over the years. Someone in St. Augustine painted a 10 hp white and stenciled in "Maytag". But, all this does not help your problem! The first thing I would do is have the CD unit bench checked. You model should have the capacitor discharge unit that can go on the blink. Check all connectors first for any corrosion and fit. Everyone on the board is moving toward carbs since we have all had issues with these little jewels over contaminated fuel, mud bugs, varnishing of the needle, etc. My Honda every year when left unnattended required a carb removal with thorough cleaning, pressure air and careful setting of the needle valve in the bowl. You may want to take another look at it, especially the needle valve wear. Remember, always remove your fuel line from the engine when you get safely tied up at the dock so that the remaining fuel in the line and carb will burn up and you avoid any varnish buildup of in the fuel distribution system. Honda has great technical support folks and it is certainly worth calling them for additional guidance on the problem. Once it gets running, its a great engine that will last forever. Regards Bob
dirt in carb's main jet
When you cleaned/rebuilt the carb, did you remove the main jet and clean-out the carb's passageway wherein the main jet threads into? I had a Honda 8hp and for over a year it used to stall and then not want to start (even in a wild storm with lots of bouncing around). I concluded (after testing) it was a gas problem and took the carb off to clean it. Ultimately found small pieces of almost a 'sand like substance' between the main jet 'tube' and the carb housing (turn the carb over, take off bowl, unscrew mainjet which has a long 'tube' with small holes in it, and the chamber the 'tube' fits into is actually larger than the 'tube', and that is where I found/cleaned out the 'sand like substance'. I figured it must have been 'floating' around inside and periodically 'clogging' the small holes in the 'tube', causing the engine to stall (and maybe staying stuck in the holes until either shaken loose or things cooled and the 'substance' became unstuck). Once it did this cleaning, the engine ran and started perfectly for the remaining 2 years I had it (and never heard from its new owner of any problems since then either). Sorry for the lack of technical terminology, but I no longer own the engine so I have no manuals to refer to... Hope this helps.
When you cleaned/rebuilt the carb, did you remove the main jet and clean-out the carb's passageway wherein the main jet threads into? I had a Honda 8hp and for over a year it used to stall and then not want to start (even in a wild storm with lots of bouncing around). I concluded (after testing) it was a gas problem and took the carb off to clean it. Ultimately found small pieces of almost a 'sand like substance' between the main jet 'tube' and the carb housing (turn the carb over, take off bowl, unscrew mainjet which has a long 'tube' with small holes in it, and the chamber the 'tube' fits into is actually larger than the 'tube', and that is where I found/cleaned out the 'sand like substance'. I figured it must have been 'floating' around inside and periodically 'clogging' the small holes in the 'tube', causing the engine to stall (and maybe staying stuck in the holes until either shaken loose or things cooled and the 'substance' became unstuck). Once it did this cleaning, the engine ran and started perfectly for the remaining 2 years I had it (and never heard from its new owner of any problems since then either). Sorry for the lack of technical terminology, but I no longer own the engine so I have no manuals to refer to... Hope this helps.
Let me try,
All carbs work the same way no matter what size or application. That said, with the carb turned upside down and the float out of the way, identify the main jet. That will probably be clear. You should be able to track the fuel path to the venturi from the main jet. Blow it clear with carb cleaner but don't dwell on it. Instead locate the adjoining midrange metering jet. It gets its' fuel from the main jet. Sometimes, no, they are always covered with some kind of rubber plug. Pop off the plug and you will see the little guy. Check for cleanliness. Also remove it (good luck) and blow out the passages to the idle circuit and the transfer slot/orifice. That should take care of any carb problems. But if these holes are dirty, the engine will run poorly at idle but manage to catch and run at very high speed on the main jet which almost always remains clear. When the engine is dying, pull out the choke. That redirects fuel from the pluged idle/midrange to the large full power system. In other words the engine doesn't totally die with no sign of life because of carb problems. Usually you can get something out of it. I'm still betting on the ignition.
All carbs work the same way no matter what size or application. That said, with the carb turned upside down and the float out of the way, identify the main jet. That will probably be clear. You should be able to track the fuel path to the venturi from the main jet. Blow it clear with carb cleaner but don't dwell on it. Instead locate the adjoining midrange metering jet. It gets its' fuel from the main jet. Sometimes, no, they are always covered with some kind of rubber plug. Pop off the plug and you will see the little guy. Check for cleanliness. Also remove it (good luck) and blow out the passages to the idle circuit and the transfer slot/orifice. That should take care of any carb problems. But if these holes are dirty, the engine will run poorly at idle but manage to catch and run at very high speed on the main jet which almost always remains clear. When the engine is dying, pull out the choke. That redirects fuel from the pluged idle/midrange to the large full power system. In other words the engine doesn't totally die with no sign of life because of carb problems. Usually you can get something out of it. I'm still betting on the ignition.
Thanks everyone...
Thanks to everyone that's taken the time to respond. I have to say my gut feeling is this is electrical. Everytime it died the carb was emptied and the fuel checked for water/dirt. All the jets were removed (more times than I care to remember), the carb stripped down to the body and everything blasted with carb cleaner. I tried to save it every time by pulling out the choke with no effect. I even tried blowing fuel into the carb throat using a length of fuel line after it stalled and couldn't get it to catch no matter how many times I tried which leads me to suspect no spark. Next time I go up I'll stick my finger in the plug cap as I turn it over - I figure that'll be the definitive test for a spark. Wakes you up better than caffeine. Thanks for the input - I'll keep you posted.
Thanks to everyone that's taken the time to respond. I have to say my gut feeling is this is electrical. Everytime it died the carb was emptied and the fuel checked for water/dirt. All the jets were removed (more times than I care to remember), the carb stripped down to the body and everything blasted with carb cleaner. I tried to save it every time by pulling out the choke with no effect. I even tried blowing fuel into the carb throat using a length of fuel line after it stalled and couldn't get it to catch no matter how many times I tried which leads me to suspect no spark. Next time I go up I'll stick my finger in the plug cap as I turn it over - I figure that'll be the definitive test for a spark. Wakes you up better than caffeine. Thanks for the input - I'll keep you posted.
One More Try Here!
I failed to mention that the slightest bit of water in the fuel will screw the engine up and it will burp, die and burb again! After all is said and done try some fresh fuel as it may be something as simple as that. Bob
I failed to mention that the slightest bit of water in the fuel will screw the engine up and it will burp, die and burb again! After all is said and done try some fresh fuel as it may be something as simple as that. Bob
- Status