I recently purchased an O'day 22 and love the boat. However, I should have been a bit more thorough in my inspection of the boat before I completed the transaction. As you step inside the cabin someone drilled a hole, approximately 4" in diameter, through the floor. The prior owner told me that the hole was there when he purchased the boat. He indicated that the hole was made so that a hand pump could be inserted to pump out the bilge water. The problem is that when the hole was cut, the core material of the floor was left exposed. At this point the core material is nothing more than pulp and the floor is weak and spongy. It appears that a lot of water gets in through a leak in the hatch area (no problem to fix). However, I am uncertain as to how to proceed to fix the floor. Should I cut the top skin of the floor's fiberglass, insert a new core and then glass over it? If I do, what about pumping out the bilge water. Any and all suggestions are welcome. Please help. Thanks, Mike Pilecki
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
M
Mark
Same problem
Bought me a 76 model 22' for real cheap. Had lots of water in it from leaky windows, who knows what all was leaking, yet. Someone before me had put about 150 lbs of lead down that little hole. I'm in the process of ripping out most of the cabin sole-all rotted core material. I used a roto-zip with fiberglass blade, and it worked really well. Set it to just go thru the outer/upper sole skin. I'm going to use the bilge in the rear of the keel for rode& chain storage, after drying it out & adding some 'glass to interior of keel. I thought I'd then coverthe sole with plywood & some kind of "decorative treatment", after painting. Sorry for the long post. e-mail me if you like, we can compare horror stories... norby@clear.lakes.com
Bought me a 76 model 22' for real cheap. Had lots of water in it from leaky windows, who knows what all was leaking, yet. Someone before me had put about 150 lbs of lead down that little hole. I'm in the process of ripping out most of the cabin sole-all rotted core material. I used a roto-zip with fiberglass blade, and it worked really well. Set it to just go thru the outer/upper sole skin. I'm going to use the bilge in the rear of the keel for rode& chain storage, after drying it out & adding some 'glass to interior of keel. I thought I'd then coverthe sole with plywood & some kind of "decorative treatment", after painting. Sorry for the long post. e-mail me if you like, we can compare horror stories... norby@clear.lakes.com
J
Justin - O'day Owners' Web
How bad is it?
Mike - How widespread is the damage? If its localized you may be able to work on the core through the hole. Otherwise, I'd do the same as mark suggests with one modification. When you lay the new core cut out a section when you want your bilge acess hole. Then fill that area with thickened epoxy, creating a disk of plastic in about two inches larger than the hole you want. Then lay the top back down. When you cut the bilge access hole you will cut into the disk so you will wind up with a ring of plastic protecting the core. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Mike - How widespread is the damage? If its localized you may be able to work on the core through the hole. Otherwise, I'd do the same as mark suggests with one modification. When you lay the new core cut out a section when you want your bilge acess hole. Then fill that area with thickened epoxy, creating a disk of plastic in about two inches larger than the hole you want. Then lay the top back down. When you cut the bilge access hole you will cut into the disk so you will wind up with a ring of plastic protecting the core. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
S
Sam
mine is only about 2"
and is used to pump out the bilge, some have used it to add lead to the keel, i personally don't think my boat needs it, but it could be that the previous owner (s) may have already done it. Mine leaks around forward hatch and windows, the entire cabin sole is soft, i need to fix it also, but will wait till winter to mess with it, i have heard some say they used the spray foam stuff, not sure how well this would work
and is used to pump out the bilge, some have used it to add lead to the keel, i personally don't think my boat needs it, but it could be that the previous owner (s) may have already done it. Mine leaks around forward hatch and windows, the entire cabin sole is soft, i need to fix it also, but will wait till winter to mess with it, i have heard some say they used the spray foam stuff, not sure how well this would work
M
Mark
foaming the sole
I've heard of people using the cans of foam, also. But the recommendation was to make small "pillars" with it by drilling multiple holes, and squirting a little in each one. Too much in one space, it was said, could cause a solid bulge to deal with. Anyone else hear of doing it this way?
I've heard of people using the cans of foam, also. But the recommendation was to make small "pillars" with it by drilling multiple holes, and squirting a little in each one. Too much in one space, it was said, could cause a solid bulge to deal with. Anyone else hear of doing it this way?
R
Rich
Forget the Foam--Stick with Epoxy (no pun intended
I have a 1975 '22 and someone in its long chain of previous owners cut two 6-8" holes in the sole--one is exactly beneath/in front of the companionway (like yours) and the other is just behind the cabinet area midships. They are each covered/closed by a white plastic screw-on access plate, which allow closure and support for stepping/walking over the holes. Both are exactly on the centerline of the boat and they were intended to allow bilge access and installation/service of an automatic bilge pump. That goal was admirable and to this day my bilge stays relatively dry with the assistance of that pump. Plus I can see pretty well down there for inspection purposes. Unfortunately, the good intentions of the installer were not matched by good planning and installation skills. Like others here, the core material was not dug out back past the perimeter of the holes and replaced with solid epoxy [or fiberglass resin] as Justin suggests. As such, I have the "spongies" on my floor, too. I also agree with Justin that if the damage is not far-reaching beyond the perimeter of the hole in your floor, get some dental picks, old screwdrivers, awls--whatever--and dig out that old, wet, rotten core material as far back as you can reach from the edges of the hole. If you hit solid, dry core material all the way around, I would still keep digging all around as far out as you can go. Then "wet out" the inside of that new cavity area between the upper and lower "skins" with clear, unthickened epoxy (West 101 and slow hardener (if you wanna wait all day) or fast hardener (if you wanna continue to work about 1 hour later)--use an artists' paintbrush, paint stick, plastic butter knife, whatever. Make sure you put plastic, cardboard or heavy paper (wax paper works great too) inside the bilge underneath the hole to catch all the dripping/excess before you start with the epoxy. Let that "wetted out" area sit for 20 or 30 minutes minimum so that the epoxy soaks into the core. You might even want to do a second "coat" after the first sets up to make sure everything is well saturated and "wetted". After you have "wetted" out the whole area inside the cavity and it sets and hardens, mix up some more epoxy, this time add some thickener (I use microfibers) and, if desired, add some white coloring agent [makes it all look a lot like gelcoated fiberglass] until the mixture gets thick like creamy peanut butter (i.e., doesn't run very much). Take that "peanut butter" and start filling that cavity around the hole, packing/pushing it in as far and as deep into that cavity as you can push--use a paintstick, plastic butter knife, putty knife, whatever. Try to get it really deep and don't worry too much about the edges/perimeter of the hole--you want it solid deep in there first. In fact, I would do this as best I can, let it set overnight and then do a second, cosmetic "skim coat" for the interior edges of the hole to make it nice and pretty/square/flush. You can let that dry overnight and then sand it smooth. Now you've got a solid floor and watertight cabin sole with bilge access to boot. If you don't have the plastic access plates like me, you might consider getting one bigger than your existing unepoxied hole, enlarge the hole to fit the new plate and follow the process above to seal the core before attaching/bedding in the plate's ring with silicone. If your sponginess exceeds your "digging reach", the other suggestion to cut ONLY the top skin with a depth-set Rotozip (or depth-set circular saw) is your best bet--cut it off and lift it off/out carefully, in one piece, as you can re-install it over the new, replaced core and epoxy/fair it back into place, filling the cuts with the thickened epoxy with pigment and then paint the whole floor to look like brand new or--if you're not worried as much about cosmetics, just leave it "au natural". That top skin is going to be better and fit better than any plywood or other substitute floor you can come up with--short of laying in new glass yourself (maybe you'd rather work than sail....) Good luck. Any questions, write back here and we'll be glad to try and help. Rich Lemmler, Jr. s/v TIME BANDIT 1975 O'Day 22
I have a 1975 '22 and someone in its long chain of previous owners cut two 6-8" holes in the sole--one is exactly beneath/in front of the companionway (like yours) and the other is just behind the cabinet area midships. They are each covered/closed by a white plastic screw-on access plate, which allow closure and support for stepping/walking over the holes. Both are exactly on the centerline of the boat and they were intended to allow bilge access and installation/service of an automatic bilge pump. That goal was admirable and to this day my bilge stays relatively dry with the assistance of that pump. Plus I can see pretty well down there for inspection purposes. Unfortunately, the good intentions of the installer were not matched by good planning and installation skills. Like others here, the core material was not dug out back past the perimeter of the holes and replaced with solid epoxy [or fiberglass resin] as Justin suggests. As such, I have the "spongies" on my floor, too. I also agree with Justin that if the damage is not far-reaching beyond the perimeter of the hole in your floor, get some dental picks, old screwdrivers, awls--whatever--and dig out that old, wet, rotten core material as far back as you can reach from the edges of the hole. If you hit solid, dry core material all the way around, I would still keep digging all around as far out as you can go. Then "wet out" the inside of that new cavity area between the upper and lower "skins" with clear, unthickened epoxy (West 101 and slow hardener (if you wanna wait all day) or fast hardener (if you wanna continue to work about 1 hour later)--use an artists' paintbrush, paint stick, plastic butter knife, whatever. Make sure you put plastic, cardboard or heavy paper (wax paper works great too) inside the bilge underneath the hole to catch all the dripping/excess before you start with the epoxy. Let that "wetted out" area sit for 20 or 30 minutes minimum so that the epoxy soaks into the core. You might even want to do a second "coat" after the first sets up to make sure everything is well saturated and "wetted". After you have "wetted" out the whole area inside the cavity and it sets and hardens, mix up some more epoxy, this time add some thickener (I use microfibers) and, if desired, add some white coloring agent [makes it all look a lot like gelcoated fiberglass] until the mixture gets thick like creamy peanut butter (i.e., doesn't run very much). Take that "peanut butter" and start filling that cavity around the hole, packing/pushing it in as far and as deep into that cavity as you can push--use a paintstick, plastic butter knife, putty knife, whatever. Try to get it really deep and don't worry too much about the edges/perimeter of the hole--you want it solid deep in there first. In fact, I would do this as best I can, let it set overnight and then do a second, cosmetic "skim coat" for the interior edges of the hole to make it nice and pretty/square/flush. You can let that dry overnight and then sand it smooth. Now you've got a solid floor and watertight cabin sole with bilge access to boot. If you don't have the plastic access plates like me, you might consider getting one bigger than your existing unepoxied hole, enlarge the hole to fit the new plate and follow the process above to seal the core before attaching/bedding in the plate's ring with silicone. If your sponginess exceeds your "digging reach", the other suggestion to cut ONLY the top skin with a depth-set Rotozip (or depth-set circular saw) is your best bet--cut it off and lift it off/out carefully, in one piece, as you can re-install it over the new, replaced core and epoxy/fair it back into place, filling the cuts with the thickened epoxy with pigment and then paint the whole floor to look like brand new or--if you're not worried as much about cosmetics, just leave it "au natural". That top skin is going to be better and fit better than any plywood or other substitute floor you can come up with--short of laying in new glass yourself (maybe you'd rather work than sail....) Good luck. Any questions, write back here and we'll be glad to try and help. Rich Lemmler, Jr. s/v TIME BANDIT 1975 O'Day 22
G
Gene Kauffman
Rich is right on !
Rich is correct just follow his proceedures and that should fix the problem. My boat had the same access hole and I enlarged it with a 3 inch deck plate with a clear lexan cover so I can see if any bilge water is down there. Anytime you install deck hardware you should drill the hole larger than you need, fill it with epoxy then drill the correct size hole after the epoxy hardens. This keeps the wooden core from absorbing water and prevents damage. Gene Kauffman s/v "JellyBean"
Rich is correct just follow his proceedures and that should fix the problem. My boat had the same access hole and I enlarged it with a 3 inch deck plate with a clear lexan cover so I can see if any bilge water is down there. Anytime you install deck hardware you should drill the hole larger than you need, fill it with epoxy then drill the correct size hole after the epoxy hardens. This keeps the wooden core from absorbing water and prevents damage. Gene Kauffman s/v "JellyBean"
- Status
- Not open for further replies.