HI, Peggie, In a previous reply you had said that use of Odolos with KO was a "belt and suspenders" approach, but the reason I ask is that I wonder if the factory-installed ventillation of the tanks (Hunter 430) may be insufficient to supply enough oxygen to keep up with the oxygen demand of KO until the tank is full, and whether an additional oxygen source would augment the action of KO. Maybe this is not necessary. Do you recomment any modifications to the vent system to provide an active air flow through the tanks, such as some sort of blower? One other question... I have a half gallon of KO that has been sitting ina dock box in the Texas heat for a year. Should I discard it, or would it still be active? Many thanks.
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That bottle of K.O. is toast...discard it.
I keep coming back to the same point: if K.O. isn't working for you (and it won't without sufficient oxygen), why use it if something else--i.e. Odorlos--does work for you? If neither of 'em work--nor anything else--then the only answer is to find a way to increase the ventilation in the system. As much as I appreciate your desire to use our products, adding another product to K.O. in an effort to make K.O. work for you just doesn't make any sense!
I keep coming back to the same point: if K.O. isn't working for you (and it won't without sufficient oxygen), why use it if something else--i.e. Odorlos--does work for you? If neither of 'em work--nor anything else--then the only answer is to find a way to increase the ventilation in the system. As much as I appreciate your desire to use our products, adding another product to K.O. in an effort to make K.O. work for you just doesn't make any sense!
Oderlos works for me
A a result of your email (I think about a month ago) I tried Oderlos in my 340 and it is doing a supper job. KO was just not overcoming the oders. I took Peggy's advice and looked for a blockage in the vent hose. What I found was that Hunter used a length of white corrigatged hose from the holding tank to the vent. The length was too long so they ran made a 180 degree bend in the hose, then tied it off with a plastic cable tie, thereby creating an air flow restriction. Either this was a mistake or there is a possibility that they do this on purpose to keep the holding tank from draining out on a hard heel. I then tried more KO --- but, unfortunately, the same result. My stern faces the afternoon western sun, so the holding tank (in the stern) just sits in the heat and cooks. I even tried doubling the recommended dose of KO. Still got oders. I switched to Oderlos on the next pumpout and my oders are gone. I have pumped about three times and still no oders. That said, I still belive KO to be a fine product, but my system must be oxegen deprived. I am using Peggy's CP and a boat cleaner with great results. And from the terrific knowledge I have learned about my marine plumbing system from her, I would go out of my way to buy Peggy's products. But, in this case, I just had to try something else. Peggy, if you ever decide to make a product that works in a similar fashion to Oderlos, please advise and I will try it in a "New York minute." Wynn Ferrel S/V Tranquility
A a result of your email (I think about a month ago) I tried Oderlos in my 340 and it is doing a supper job. KO was just not overcoming the oders. I took Peggy's advice and looked for a blockage in the vent hose. What I found was that Hunter used a length of white corrigatged hose from the holding tank to the vent. The length was too long so they ran made a 180 degree bend in the hose, then tied it off with a plastic cable tie, thereby creating an air flow restriction. Either this was a mistake or there is a possibility that they do this on purpose to keep the holding tank from draining out on a hard heel. I then tried more KO --- but, unfortunately, the same result. My stern faces the afternoon western sun, so the holding tank (in the stern) just sits in the heat and cooks. I even tried doubling the recommended dose of KO. Still got oders. I switched to Oderlos on the next pumpout and my oders are gone. I have pumped about three times and still no oders. That said, I still belive KO to be a fine product, but my system must be oxegen deprived. I am using Peggy's CP and a boat cleaner with great results. And from the terrific knowledge I have learned about my marine plumbing system from her, I would go out of my way to buy Peggy's products. But, in this case, I just had to try something else. Peggy, if you ever decide to make a product that works in a similar fashion to Oderlos, please advise and I will try it in a "New York minute." Wynn Ferrel S/V Tranquility
Thanks Wynn!
With the vent line you describe, I'm not surprised K.O. didn't work for you. Adding more won't help...if there isn't enough oxygen for the recommended amount, there isn't enough for a larger quantity to work either. We thought we were onto something that worked in an anaerobic environment...but an analysis of the product revealed that the bacteria strain is the kind that can mutate into a pathogenic (disease producing) strain. We're all for getting rid of odor...but the sailing/boating community doesn't need it's own version of "legionaire's disease!"
With the vent line you describe, I'm not surprised K.O. didn't work for you. Adding more won't help...if there isn't enough oxygen for the recommended amount, there isn't enough for a larger quantity to work either. We thought we were onto something that worked in an anaerobic environment...but an analysis of the product revealed that the bacteria strain is the kind that can mutate into a pathogenic (disease producing) strain. We're all for getting rid of odor...but the sailing/boating community doesn't need it's own version of "legionaire's disease!"
Hunter needs to improve tank venting
I think we are on to an improtant point. I don't have the experience to know wheather or not the venting on the newer Hunter's is sufficient --- but * * apparently * * it is not. Having said that, maybe Hunter's design team might want to take another look at the way they are venting the holding tank and see if they can provide more oxegen to the tank so that a larger variety of chemicals can do their job. I think this is a design improvment that could be made at little cost to Hunter on future boats. But for now, current owners need to be aware that the venting of their tanks needs to be inspected for bends in the venting hose that may restrict the flow of oxegen to their tanks. I thought the coolest solution was another owner that wrote in to say that he installed a vent on the opposite side of the boat from the current vent and turned the vent fitting the opposite way of the current fitting to say he now has air flow "going and coming." Smart guy/girl!! Wynn Ferrel S/V Tranquliity
I think we are on to an improtant point. I don't have the experience to know wheather or not the venting on the newer Hunter's is sufficient --- but * * apparently * * it is not. Having said that, maybe Hunter's design team might want to take another look at the way they are venting the holding tank and see if they can provide more oxegen to the tank so that a larger variety of chemicals can do their job. I think this is a design improvment that could be made at little cost to Hunter on future boats. But for now, current owners need to be aware that the venting of their tanks needs to be inspected for bends in the venting hose that may restrict the flow of oxegen to their tanks. I thought the coolest solution was another owner that wrote in to say that he installed a vent on the opposite side of the boat from the current vent and turned the vent fitting the opposite way of the current fitting to say he now has air flow "going and coming." Smart guy/girl!! Wynn Ferrel S/V Tranquliity
Me Too, '83 H30
Wynn, You are not the only one whose vent hose is/was the white corregated plastic one where Hunter did a 180 degree turn tied off with those plastic wire ties before it exited the boat. I finally removed mine last week. Drove around with it in my car for 4 days before I got the 3 ft replacement hose and installed it in the boat. Not only does my boat smell better, (actually no smell at all, put in K.O. 1 1/2 months ago) but my car smells better too. I know that Jim B is "gone" but I would be surprised to learn he hasn't taken some of the common sense design changes back to Hunter to make them an even better boat. And you are right again Wynn, these "design changes" would be a nothing cost if just a little forethought were used.
Wynn, You are not the only one whose vent hose is/was the white corregated plastic one where Hunter did a 180 degree turn tied off with those plastic wire ties before it exited the boat. I finally removed mine last week. Drove around with it in my car for 4 days before I got the 3 ft replacement hose and installed it in the boat. Not only does my boat smell better, (actually no smell at all, put in K.O. 1 1/2 months ago) but my car smells better too. I know that Jim B is "gone" but I would be surprised to learn he hasn't taken some of the common sense design changes back to Hunter to make them an even better boat. And you are right again Wynn, these "design changes" would be a nothing cost if just a little forethought were used.
loop
If you look at the vent hose on your fuel tank vent, it will have a loop in it also. This is to keep seawater out of the tank and small amounts of fuel in. Probably the same reasoning was used when your holding tank vents were installed. I'm not saying the reasoning was sound . . .
If you look at the vent hose on your fuel tank vent, it will have a loop in it also. This is to keep seawater out of the tank and small amounts of fuel in. Probably the same reasoning was used when your holding tank vents were installed. I'm not saying the reasoning was sound . . .
Hey Mark..
What type hose did you finally use to replace the old one? Facing the same smelly issue everyone else is facing, I finally decided to pull everything out of my 84 H31 and replace it. Did you go with the same white that's availabe in the marine stores?
What type hose did you finally use to replace the old one? Facing the same smelly issue everyone else is facing, I finally decided to pull everything out of my 84 H31 and replace it. Did you go with the same white that's availabe in the marine stores?
Don: White flexible PVC
Hose they sell in the marine stores. I think they call it bilge hose. I've replaced all my hoses now with the exception of the pump out hose which will probably get changed out this winter. Getting the hose on to the fitting can be difficult especially considering the angle of attack of pushing these on and the limited space. I tried heating them with a torch but that didn't work too well. What worked great was to soak the hose end in boiling water, the hose expands just alittle and the water acts as a lubricant. They slip on with hardly any effort. Changing the hoses made all the difference in the world, The "sewer" smell disappeared. Good Luck!! Mark
Hose they sell in the marine stores. I think they call it bilge hose. I've replaced all my hoses now with the exception of the pump out hose which will probably get changed out this winter. Getting the hose on to the fitting can be difficult especially considering the angle of attack of pushing these on and the limited space. I tried heating them with a torch but that didn't work too well. What worked great was to soak the hose end in boiling water, the hose expands just alittle and the water acts as a lubricant. They slip on with hardly any effort. Changing the hoses made all the difference in the world, The "sewer" smell disappeared. Good Luck!! Mark
What about a Y valve?
I am considering installing a Y valve to direct waste from the pump out and the overboard discharge. Since I have never used the overboard discharge, I suspect waste winds up sitting somewhere in the line = smell. But I still want the pump/overboard dischage in case I really do get to run away on this boat some day. Has anyone else put a Y where there wasn't one before?
I am considering installing a Y valve to direct waste from the pump out and the overboard discharge. Since I have never used the overboard discharge, I suspect waste winds up sitting somewhere in the line = smell. But I still want the pump/overboard dischage in case I really do get to run away on this boat some day. Has anyone else put a Y where there wasn't one before?
Don's Y-valve Question
Don, I put a Y-valve (PAR) and vacuum break before the tank inlet and put the overboard T-fitting downstream of the manual discharge pump so as not to complicate using it. FYI, this V32 has a manual pump out as well as a deck fitting for dockside waste removal. I wanted to retain all those systems and add the direct for open ocean sailing as is generally the case. It has been reliable for almost ten years and it is good to have the option if your sailing waters permit. Rick D.
Don, I put a Y-valve (PAR) and vacuum break before the tank inlet and put the overboard T-fitting downstream of the manual discharge pump so as not to complicate using it. FYI, this V32 has a manual pump out as well as a deck fitting for dockside waste removal. I wanted to retain all those systems and add the direct for open ocean sailing as is generally the case. It has been reliable for almost ten years and it is good to have the option if your sailing waters permit. Rick D.
Y-valve is no problem...
Just cut the hose--preferably in a spot at or above the top of the tank, install the y-valve...run a hose downhill to your overboard discharge pump, up and over a vented loop and out. You cannot use an impeller macerator if you cut the hose above the top of the tank...no sewage in the line to prime it before the impeller burns out.
Just cut the hose--preferably in a spot at or above the top of the tank, install the y-valve...run a hose downhill to your overboard discharge pump, up and over a vented loop and out. You cannot use an impeller macerator if you cut the hose above the top of the tank...no sewage in the line to prime it before the impeller burns out.
They call it sanitation hose, Mark. 
And a little dish soap will help it slide onto a fitting much more easily than plain water.
And a little dish soap will help it slide onto a fitting much more easily than plain water.
Thanks Peggy, but..
On my H31 the tank outlet is near the bottom of the tank. I think this is at least part of the problem, waste sits in the hoses. Am I missing something here? I don't think there is any way to put the y above the tank. Iplan to put it as close to the tank outlet as possible to minimize waste in the line. Other thoughts?
On my H31 the tank outlet is near the bottom of the tank. I think this is at least part of the problem, waste sits in the hoses. Am I missing something here? I don't think there is any way to put the y above the tank. Iplan to put it as close to the tank outlet as possible to minimize waste in the line. Other thoughts?
Don: A couple ways to plumb it
The way I think Peggy was describing the system is: from your head the discharge line goes to the top of your holding tank, some where before it discharges into your tank (follow Peggies suggestion) place the Y valve. The other part of the Y will go to your overboard discharge (make sure you have a vent loop in it). The discharge at the bottom of your tank is for pump out. My system is different on my boat. From my head the hose leads to a Y valve sitting on top of a thru hull. The waste can immediately go overboard, or, from the Y valve a hose goes up and discharges into the top of my holding tank. At the bottom of my holding tank is a discharge hose. The hose has a T fitting on it. One end leads directly up to the pumpout while the other end has a manual pump in line and then a vent loop and discharges overboard through a different thru-hull. With this system I can either discharge overboard or into the tank, AND I can empty my tank by pumpout or manually pumping overboard. Now if you don't want to try to figure out what I've written here, either West Marine or Boat US's catelogs have 3-4 different schematics diagraming different ways to include an overboard discharge. (Don't think my system is diagramed though) Good Luck Mark Whitson s/v Tequila
The way I think Peggy was describing the system is: from your head the discharge line goes to the top of your holding tank, some where before it discharges into your tank (follow Peggies suggestion) place the Y valve. The other part of the Y will go to your overboard discharge (make sure you have a vent loop in it). The discharge at the bottom of your tank is for pump out. My system is different on my boat. From my head the hose leads to a Y valve sitting on top of a thru hull. The waste can immediately go overboard, or, from the Y valve a hose goes up and discharges into the top of my holding tank. At the bottom of my holding tank is a discharge hose. The hose has a T fitting on it. One end leads directly up to the pumpout while the other end has a manual pump in line and then a vent loop and discharges overboard through a different thru-hull. With this system I can either discharge overboard or into the tank, AND I can empty my tank by pumpout or manually pumping overboard. Now if you don't want to try to figure out what I've written here, either West Marine or Boat US's catelogs have 3-4 different schematics diagraming different ways to include an overboard discharge. (Don't think my system is diagramed though) Good Luck Mark Whitson s/v Tequila
Don: A couple ways to plumb it
The way I think Peggy was describing the system is: from your head the discharge line goes to the top of your holding tank, some where before it discharges into your tank (follow Peggies suggestion) place the Y valve. The other part of the Y will go to your overboard discharge (make sure you have a vent loop in it). The discharge at the bottom of your tank is for pump out. My system is different on my boat. From my head the hose leads to a Y valve sitting on top of a thru hull. The waste can immediately go overboard, or, from the Y valve a hose goes up and discharges into the top of my holding tank. At the bottom of my holding tank is a discharge hose. The hose has a T fitting on it. One end leads directly up to the pumpout while the other end has a manual pump in line and then a vent loop and discharges overboard through a different thru-hull. With this system I can either discharge overboard or into the tank, AND I can empty my tank by pumpout or manually pumping overboard. Now if you don't want to try to figure out what I've written here, either West Marine or Boat US's catelogs have 3-4 different schematics diagraming different ways to include an overboard discharge. (Don't think my system is diagramed though) Good Luck Mark Whitson s/v Tequila
The way I think Peggy was describing the system is: from your head the discharge line goes to the top of your holding tank, some where before it discharges into your tank (follow Peggies suggestion) place the Y valve. The other part of the Y will go to your overboard discharge (make sure you have a vent loop in it). The discharge at the bottom of your tank is for pump out. My system is different on my boat. From my head the hose leads to a Y valve sitting on top of a thru hull. The waste can immediately go overboard, or, from the Y valve a hose goes up and discharges into the top of my holding tank. At the bottom of my holding tank is a discharge hose. The hose has a T fitting on it. One end leads directly up to the pumpout while the other end has a manual pump in line and then a vent loop and discharges overboard through a different thru-hull. With this system I can either discharge overboard or into the tank, AND I can empty my tank by pumpout or manually pumping overboard. Now if you don't want to try to figure out what I've written here, either West Marine or Boat US's catelogs have 3-4 different schematics diagraming different ways to include an overboard discharge. (Don't think my system is diagramed though) Good Luck Mark Whitson s/v Tequila
Mark...clarify please...
Is there a vented loop between your toilet and the thru-hull the y-valve is on?
Is there a vented loop between your toilet and the thru-hull the y-valve is on?
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