holding tank puzzle

[paperbird]

I have a puzzle that I would appreciate some help solving. We have a Pearson 422 with 2 heads and 2 holding tanks, at least we think there are 2 holding tanks. The aft tank is plumbed "normally" w/ the head going to a Y valve then either to the holding tank or thru-hull.

The fwd tank is weird. The previous owner said there was no holding tank. The head is plumbed directly to a thru-hull. However, there is a holding tank under the floorboards. But we can't figure out the arrangement. There are 3 fittings on the tank. At the top of one side of the tank is a 1-1/2" line that goes to a deck pumpout labeled waste. Also at the top of the same side is a 1" line (vent?) that runs up to close to the deck pumpout fitting, but there it is plugged and covered with duct tape. There is no vent fitting. In the middle of the same side of the tank is a 1/2" elbow fitting that has no hose, nor is there any evidence of a hose ever being attached.

My best guess is that the manufacturer installed the tank, but never plumbed it. And that the 1/2" fitting on the side of the tank is for an lectrasan type head.

Now for the question:

- is there a way to retrofit the tank to make it usable? Perhaps blank off the 1/2" fitting and then cut a 1-1/2" intake fitting at the top of one side.

Any help is much appreciated

Thanks,
Greg
s/v paperbird
Pearson 422

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I'll try to sort out the plumbing...

At the top of one side of the tank is a 1-1/2" line that goes to a deck pumpout labeled waste.

It's INLET fittings that are on the top or at the top of tanks...if that fitting is a discharge fitting there has to be a pickup tube inside the tank that goes to the bottom, there'd be no way to pump out the tank through that fitting.

Also at the top of the same side is a 1" line (vent?) that runs up to close to the deck pumpout fitting, but there it is plugged and covered with duct tape.

Just a hose that dead ends inside the boat? Not connected to any thru-hull?

There is no vent fitting.

Assuming you mean vent THRU-HULL???

In the middle of the same side of the tank is a 1/2" elbow fitting that has no hose, nor is there any evidence of a hose ever being attached.

That 1/2" fitting wouldn't have anything whatever to do with a Lectra/San, which is not ANY type of head, nor is any other treatment device...you need to see what a Lectra/San looks like: Raritan LectraSan

My best guess is that the manufacturer installed the tank, but never plumbed it.

My best guess is that you're half right...that SOMEBODY did drop a tank in there that was never plumbed...but either it's not right side up, or the mfr somehow managed to put most if not all of the fittings in the wrong place, which is WHY is was never plumbed in. Send me a photo of it and I'll be able to tell you which and whether the fittings can be plugged and new ones installed.

 

[paperbird]

Peggy,

Thanks. I'll try to get to the boat this week and take a photo of the end of the tank showing the fittings.

Just a hose that dead ends inside the boat? Not connected to any thru-hull?

That's correct. It runs under the sole, up the bulkhead behind the head, where it simply ends. There's a piece of cork in the end and duct tape wrapped around it. It appears that it should have been a vent line, but no thru-hull was ever installed.

It's INLET fittings that are on the top or at the top of tanks...if that fitting is a discharge fitting there has to be a pickup tube inside the tank that goes to the bottom, there'd be no way to pump out the tank through that fitting.

That's why it's a puzzle. I understand that inlet fittings are normally at the top of the tank (the aft holding tank is plumbed that way as have all previous boats). I'm wondering if there's a standpipe inside the tank. One thing that's sure is that a 1-1/2" hose runs from that top fitting to a waste pumpout fitting on the deck.

Just to add to the puzzle, there is also a length of 1-1/2 hose that runs from the vicinity of the deck pumpout (not connected to anything, just hanging there) down into the bilge where it also is unconnected and just laying there.

The one thing I'm absolutely sure of is that I have a project on my hands to replumb the mess.

Will get photos as soon as possible.

thanks
greg

 

[paperbird]

puzzle photos

Here are a couple photos:

Photo 1: Tank shows the aft end of the tank. The small fitting at the top appears to be a vent line, but it's the one that isn't connected to anything (see photo 2). The 1-1/2" line in the middle goes to the waste deck pumpout fitting. The lowest fitting is at about the midpoint of the height of the tank. No hoses are near it that might have been connected.

Photo 2" Hoses shows the hose arrangement in behind the head. From left to right: The 1-1/2" hose on the left goes to the tank fitting from the previous photo. The 1-1/2" hose in the middle w/ the duct tape goes to the bilge but is not connected to anything. The vented loop is between the head discharge and the thru hull in the bilge. Note at the top edge of the photo is the duct taped 1/2" line that comes from the tank and would appear to have been meant as a vent line - except there is no thru-hull fitting for it to attach to.

Hope these clues help solve the puzzle.

Thanks!
greg

 

[woodster]

the fitting arrangement you have there makes me think it was to be a water tank ei ..1/2 inch at the top vent ...1 1/2 inch water fill....1/2 inch at the bottom drain to water pump do you have a clean out that you can acess and check the inside of the tank...mide you this is only a guess on my part...

regrads

woody

 

[paperbird]

Woody,

Certainly a possibility. Elsewhere on the boat:

- 150 gl water tank under the cabin sole
- 40 gl tank under the vee berth - hooked up as a water tank, but could have been intended as a holding tank
- 20(?) gl holding tank under the aft bunk - plumbed with traditional y valve

Possibly the tank in question and the tank under the vee berth were switched at some point.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

That's a good guess, Woody

the fitting arrangement you have there makes me think it was to be a water tank ei ..1/2 inch at the top vent ...1 1/2 inch water fill....1/2 inch at the bottom drain to water pump...

It makes sense for the fittings. But the hoses don't make ANY sense if that's a water tank. At least two are corrugated, which hasn't been used in marine plumbing for more than 20 years...and they all look so old that they have to be hard and brittle enough to split.

And the tank seems to be encased in plywood on all sides, indicating that the tank walls are too thin to suppor the weight of the contents without support...that's not something you'd want to keep.

Whatever that tank and plumbing started out to be, it wasn't a success. So I'd pull tank and all the plumbing out and start over...you'd have to replace all the plumbing anyway, so that'll only cost you the price of a new tank...and Ronco Plastics Ronco Plastics (no relation to the Vegomatici Ronco) s your best source for new one. They make TOP quality plastic tanks with walls that CAN support the weight of the contents for a VERY reasonable price (that's even more reasonable if you order it through the online store on this site) and have more than 400 shapes and sizes...over 100 of which are non-rectangular. And they install fittings in the sizes and locations specified by the customer when they make the tank.

So after you've gotten it all out and cleaned up, spend some time in their catalog and then, if you'd like some help spec'ing out the plumbing, I'll be glad to do it. The ONLY hose I recommend is Trident 101/102 (identical except for color) Trident Marine: Sanitation Hose ...it's a double walled rubber hose that's been on the market for nearly 20 years without a single odor permeation failure. You should be able to find it for about $7/ft. A tank level monitor Profile Tank Monitors and you'll be good to go...that is, assuming the toilets work...what are they, and how old are they?

 

[paperbird]

Thanks - I was hoping to avoid the tear out process. Unfortunately, the cabin sole was not installed in a way that makes it easy to get that tank out. It might end up being a fairly extensive refit.

Will look into that hose and the Ronco tanks.

The heads are both manual PHII's and are in pretty good shape. They were replaced within the last few years.

After not nearly enough thought, I'm leaning towards trying to get that tank out, then "replacing" it with a newer bilge mounted tank. Then I think I can add a raritan lectrasan/hold and treat system located between the 2 holding tanks. I'm assuming I would need a macerator on each holding tank connected to a tank level monitor per the hold and treat recommendations?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I wouldn't put the tank in the bilge...

That's an ok location for fuel or water, but not for a waste tank 'cuz it's almost impossible to vent it to keep it aerobic. Including an ElectroScan with Hold 'n' Treat Controls is a good idea, but I don't think you'd need to connect it to two tanks...in fact, you may not even need a second time. If you'd like to brainstorm it, send me an email.