I just purchased a 1977 Catalina 30. The holding tank and/or lines are giving off a foul odor. I had this problem on a Sea Ray I own. I had to change the sewage line to get rid of the odor. Any suggestions for quick fixes? Can the tank/lines be rinsed with any type of liquid that will neutralize the odor? Can the tank be covered with any material - paint, fiberglass resin, that will contain the odor?
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Replace lines
I went through this same debate a year ago and finally was convinced by the forum to just do it right - replace the hoses. Not a fun job, but certainly not the worst thing I have done. One big problem is how to stop spillage as you pull old lines out. I used those hose stoppers from the hardware plumbing section that use a wing nut on top to expand a rubber seal so nothing drips out as you pull hoses. Buy the best repalcement hose money can buy. since you did it before, you probably know it ain't cheap.
I went through this same debate a year ago and finally was convinced by the forum to just do it right - replace the hoses. Not a fun job, but certainly not the worst thing I have done. One big problem is how to stop spillage as you pull old lines out. I used those hose stoppers from the hardware plumbing section that use a wing nut on top to expand a rubber seal so nothing drips out as you pull hoses. Buy the best repalcement hose money can buy. since you did it before, you probably know it ain't cheap.
No quick fix for permeated hoses
The ONLY cure is new hoses. Unless the tank is metal, it's unlikely to be the culprit. If it is metal, it's likely to be leaking and should be replaced, 'cuz the first leak in a metal tank is always ONLY the first leak, so repair is a waste of expense and effort.
The ONLY cure is new hoses. Unless the tank is metal, it's unlikely to be the culprit. If it is metal, it's likely to be leaking and should be replaced, 'cuz the first leak in a metal tank is always ONLY the first leak, so repair is a waste of expense and effort.
How long do hoses remain impermeable?
Peggie, presuming one has average quality hoses (factory installed) and uses the pump to keep the lines clear, what is the typical duration before the lines begin to permeate? That is, when should one begin to ponder replacement? Thank you!
Peggie, presuming one has average quality hoses (factory installed) and uses the pump to keep the lines clear, what is the typical duration before the lines begin to permeate? That is, when should one begin to ponder replacement? Thank you!
There'a no predicting that
I'd had Trident #148 (same as the Shields hose sold by WM) on one of my boats for more than 7 years without a trace of odor. It permeated in less than 90 days on the next boat...took me forever to realize that's what had happened 'cuz I didn't believe it was possible for any hose to permeate that fast. The ultr-pricy sanitation hoses are a LOT more resistant to permeation than #148, but they aren't 100% bullet-proof either. I can tell you that the best way to prevent/delay hose permeation is: 1. never leave waste sitting in the hoses...flush long enough in the dry mode to move the bowl contents all the way to the tank, then rinse behind the flush with clean water that's also pumped all the way to the tank. Always flush a quart or two of clean FRESH water through to the tank before the boat will sit. 2. NEVER use bleach or any product that contains bleach, nor any household chemcial bowl cleaners...no Pine Sol or Lysol either...nor any petroleum based product. Not only are they all destructive to rubber parts in marine toilets, but they also break down hose resistance to permeation. Use only cleaning products recommended for MARINE toilets. One begins to ponder replacing permeated hoses when one decides one no longer wants to be aboard a boat that stinks.
I'd had Trident #148 (same as the Shields hose sold by WM) on one of my boats for more than 7 years without a trace of odor. It permeated in less than 90 days on the next boat...took me forever to realize that's what had happened 'cuz I didn't believe it was possible for any hose to permeate that fast. The ultr-pricy sanitation hoses are a LOT more resistant to permeation than #148, but they aren't 100% bullet-proof either. I can tell you that the best way to prevent/delay hose permeation is: 1. never leave waste sitting in the hoses...flush long enough in the dry mode to move the bowl contents all the way to the tank, then rinse behind the flush with clean water that's also pumped all the way to the tank. Always flush a quart or two of clean FRESH water through to the tank before the boat will sit. 2. NEVER use bleach or any product that contains bleach, nor any household chemcial bowl cleaners...no Pine Sol or Lysol either...nor any petroleum based product. Not only are they all destructive to rubber parts in marine toilets, but they also break down hose resistance to permeation. Use only cleaning products recommended for MARINE toilets. One begins to ponder replacing permeated hoses when one decides one no longer wants to be aboard a boat that stinks.
Time to replace the hoses.......
when you can smell or see whats in them....lol In regards to taking the hoses off, when I did mine, I did the following to limited the disgusting mess 1 - flushed the system completely with several gallons of water. Then flushed with a bleach mixture to kill germs and make me feel better when the water comes out of the exit hose off the toilet. My bathroom has a sump pump on the floor so all bleach water mixture went on the floor and out...easy clean-up. Did not leave bleach mixture in toilet got through quick as I know this will damage rubber 2 - Had the tank pumped out 4 - When I disconnected the tank, I was able to remove the tank with the hoses connected so as no water spilled from there. I brought the tank to the bathroom and flushed the remains after a good rinse. 5 - Prior to replacing all the hoses, I filled the tank with bleach and hot water, let it sit for a bit then dumped it, then filled with soap and hot water and let it sit. The flushed like crazy to get all soap and debris out. When I was finished the tank was oderless 6 - Reinstall tank and new hoses No more smell! Good Luck Greg
when you can smell or see whats in them....lol In regards to taking the hoses off, when I did mine, I did the following to limited the disgusting mess 1 - flushed the system completely with several gallons of water. Then flushed with a bleach mixture to kill germs and make me feel better when the water comes out of the exit hose off the toilet. My bathroom has a sump pump on the floor so all bleach water mixture went on the floor and out...easy clean-up. Did not leave bleach mixture in toilet got through quick as I know this will damage rubber 2 - Had the tank pumped out 4 - When I disconnected the tank, I was able to remove the tank with the hoses connected so as no water spilled from there. I brought the tank to the bathroom and flushed the remains after a good rinse. 5 - Prior to replacing all the hoses, I filled the tank with bleach and hot water, let it sit for a bit then dumped it, then filled with soap and hot water and let it sit. The flushed like crazy to get all soap and debris out. When I was finished the tank was oderless 6 - Reinstall tank and new hoses No more smell! Good Luck Greg
I should clarify Peggie...
"One begins to ponder replacing permeated hoses when one decides one no longer wants to be aboard a boat that stinks." Actually, one should state that makes two of us! Thanks again for all of your advice. Your book has been immensely helpful, and takes its rightful priority spot in the library, but I want to get on the pre-order list when you decide to put all of this continual good information into the next edition!
"One begins to ponder replacing permeated hoses when one decides one no longer wants to be aboard a boat that stinks." Actually, one should state that makes two of us! Thanks again for all of your advice. Your book has been immensely helpful, and takes its rightful priority spot in the library, but I want to get on the pre-order list when you decide to put all of this continual good information into the next edition!
There are no short cuts. Permeated hoses
need to be replaced. While you are at it check the vents and overhaul the head. No sense getting up to the task of replacing hoses now and having to work on the head maybe next year.
need to be replaced. While you are at it check the vents and overhaul the head. No sense getting up to the task of replacing hoses now and having to work on the head maybe next year.
Forget the hose, Use PVC Pipe
You decide, a few bucks at Home Depot or a few hundred at West Marine. The PVC will last problem free for decades, the hoses will need changing in a few years. Sealand makes the adapters to get from PVC to the tank and head
You decide, a few bucks at Home Depot or a few hundred at West Marine. The PVC will last problem free for decades, the hoses will need changing in a few years. Sealand makes the adapters to get from PVC to the tank and head
Combination of PVC and hoses
I haven'y done it (yet) but I know a few that have gome with a combination of PVC and flex sanitary hoses. Basically, most of teh job is the PVC with the flex hoses used here and there to provide flexing (ironically). I hear this is the best of both worlds wince the PVC is longer lasting and resistent to oder and teh hoses are there to allow the system to flex and the boat flexes but used in such small quantity that note likely to retain oder. Peggy - what are the pros and cons / your experience with this type of setup?
I haven'y done it (yet) but I know a few that have gome with a combination of PVC and flex sanitary hoses. Basically, most of teh job is the PVC with the flex hoses used here and there to provide flexing (ironically). I hear this is the best of both worlds wince the PVC is longer lasting and resistent to oder and teh hoses are there to allow the system to flex and the boat flexes but used in such small quantity that note likely to retain oder. Peggy - what are the pros and cons / your experience with this type of setup?
tank
Peggy, You state "Unless the tank is metal, it's unlikely to be the culprit." I too am facing the less than fun job of replacing permeated hoses but I assumed I would need to replace the tank as well. Would a standard tank originally installed on mid- 80's era boat need to be replaced?
Peggy, You state "Unless the tank is metal, it's unlikely to be the culprit." I too am facing the less than fun job of replacing permeated hoses but I assumed I would need to replace the tank as well. Would a standard tank originally installed on mid- 80's era boat need to be replaced?
Shippy and Danny ...
Danny, I can't answer that question till I know what your tank is made of. Shippy...Hard PvC is only recommended for long straight runs because runs that have a lot of bends in 'em, and every bend requires a radius fitting that can become a potential leaker. But if you're willing to accept that risk, and will use enough hose to "soft couple" it to every rigid component in the system--toilet, any y-valve, tank, any macerator or manual overboard discharge pump and all thru-hulls--go ahead. But by the time you use that much hose, is it worth it to put all those unions in the plumbing? There's really only one line that can profit from using hard pipe: any tank pumpout line that comes from the tamk at the bottom. It's the only line in which it's impossible to avoid leaving standing sewage in the hose because waste will rise in it to the level in the tank. So I suggest that you stick with top quality hose for the rest of the system and use a section of hard PVC pipe only on that line, with about 6" of hose at the connection to the tank and another 6" at the connection to the deck pumpout fitting. If you put y-valve in that line, you won't need to protect any piping coming out the side that goes to any overboard discharge pump if you keep the y-valve aimed toward the deck fitting except when dumping the tank at sea.
Danny, I can't answer that question till I know what your tank is made of. Shippy...Hard PvC is only recommended for long straight runs because runs that have a lot of bends in 'em, and every bend requires a radius fitting that can become a potential leaker. But if you're willing to accept that risk, and will use enough hose to "soft couple" it to every rigid component in the system--toilet, any y-valve, tank, any macerator or manual overboard discharge pump and all thru-hulls--go ahead. But by the time you use that much hose, is it worth it to put all those unions in the plumbing? There's really only one line that can profit from using hard pipe: any tank pumpout line that comes from the tamk at the bottom. It's the only line in which it's impossible to avoid leaving standing sewage in the hose because waste will rise in it to the level in the tank. So I suggest that you stick with top quality hose for the rest of the system and use a section of hard PVC pipe only on that line, with about 6" of hose at the connection to the tank and another 6" at the connection to the deck pumpout fitting. If you put y-valve in that line, you won't need to protect any piping coming out the side that goes to any overboard discharge pump if you keep the y-valve aimed toward the deck fitting except when dumping the tank at sea.
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