1988 Hunter Legend 37 I am in process of redesigning my holding tank location and piping. The new Stainless Steel holding tank (40 Imp. Gallons) will be located 11 feet from the head location and 2 feet higher than the base of the head. The run is straight. No elbows, with a gradual rise in elevation. Discharge and vent will be over the new tank located in the "V" Berth. I am keeping the existing tank (13 Imp. Gallons) in place. Too difficult to remove. 1. Do you know of a disinfecting solution that if flushed thru the old tank (12 yrs old) will stop any permeation? 2. What is your recommendation for the best sanitation hose? 3. If I cannot stop the permeation of the old tank, I will use it as a backup tank by installing a "Y" valve allowing me to switch over. Feasible? 4. I am concerned with the 11 foot run and the 2 foot lift. Should I install a vent loop or a check valve, and at what point on the run? 5. I am considering installing a hose connection close to the head or at the beginning of the 11 foot run so that the 1 1/2" line can be pressure flushed towards the new holding tank. Feasible? 6. Can you recommend a toilet manufacturer that will best handle the new installation? Does anyone have further information and advice thru their experience covering my project? Bill
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
First of all...
I hope you haven't already committed to a stainless holding tank. Stainless steel is a bad choice of materials for sewage holding...urine is so corrosive that even 316 stainless typically starts to leak at a seam or fitting with 2-5 years. The only suitable material is thick-walled seamless polyethylene. Now to answer your questions: There is no chemical that will stop or reverse permeation, in a tank or hoses. What makes you certain that the tank HAS permeated...that any odor in that locker isn't due to permeated hoses or even an undetectable leak at a fitting? What if any tests have you done? Whether it's permeated or not, I strongly advise you against leaving it in the boat--no matter HOW difficult it will be to remove it. If it HAS permeated, it will only create odor in your boat. Using it as a "backup tank" will only add valves and fittings to your installation that can cause problems later. SeaLand "OdorSafe" brand hose is currently the best hose on the market. It's white hose that has a "skin" on it similar to Saran Wrap...expensive at $8/ft (US), but seems to be bullet-proof. Although the 2' rise is no problem, You have every reason to be concerned about an 11' run from the head to the tank! Because the average user never pumps a toilet long enough to move the bowl contents more than 6', you definitely DO need a vented loop in the line...immediately after the toilet. I would NOT install any check-valves...just something else to malfunction and/or clog. "I am considering installing a hose connection close to the head or at the beginning of the 11 foot run so that the 1 1/2" line can be pressure flushed towards the new holding tank. Feasible?" Noooo. Who on earth came up with THAT idea??? As for a toilet, there's only one I know of that won't actually create problems in the installation you're proposing: the Raritan Atlantes. No manual head will do it...the SeaLand VacuFlush doesn't use enough water to rinse out the system, and every other electric toilet uses too much water and power to be feasible on a sailboat. My take on the description of your proposed installation is that you're gonna solve some problems, but create others. If you'd like to give me a call, I'm finally home from the Annapolis boat shows and I'll be glad to discuss your installation with you in detail...800-352-5630.
I hope you haven't already committed to a stainless holding tank. Stainless steel is a bad choice of materials for sewage holding...urine is so corrosive that even 316 stainless typically starts to leak at a seam or fitting with 2-5 years. The only suitable material is thick-walled seamless polyethylene. Now to answer your questions: There is no chemical that will stop or reverse permeation, in a tank or hoses. What makes you certain that the tank HAS permeated...that any odor in that locker isn't due to permeated hoses or even an undetectable leak at a fitting? What if any tests have you done? Whether it's permeated or not, I strongly advise you against leaving it in the boat--no matter HOW difficult it will be to remove it. If it HAS permeated, it will only create odor in your boat. Using it as a "backup tank" will only add valves and fittings to your installation that can cause problems later. SeaLand "OdorSafe" brand hose is currently the best hose on the market. It's white hose that has a "skin" on it similar to Saran Wrap...expensive at $8/ft (US), but seems to be bullet-proof. Although the 2' rise is no problem, You have every reason to be concerned about an 11' run from the head to the tank! Because the average user never pumps a toilet long enough to move the bowl contents more than 6', you definitely DO need a vented loop in the line...immediately after the toilet. I would NOT install any check-valves...just something else to malfunction and/or clog. "I am considering installing a hose connection close to the head or at the beginning of the 11 foot run so that the 1 1/2" line can be pressure flushed towards the new holding tank. Feasible?" Noooo. Who on earth came up with THAT idea??? As for a toilet, there's only one I know of that won't actually create problems in the installation you're proposing: the Raritan Atlantes. No manual head will do it...the SeaLand VacuFlush doesn't use enough water to rinse out the system, and every other electric toilet uses too much water and power to be feasible on a sailboat. My take on the description of your proposed installation is that you're gonna solve some problems, but create others. If you'd like to give me a call, I'm finally home from the Annapolis boat shows and I'll be glad to discuss your installation with you in detail...800-352-5630.
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Mark Whitson
Icks 11'
My concern is the 11' of slow rise to the holding tank. That would be a lot of flushing water( 1 gal to be exact) to make sure your line is devoid of "stuff" and made it to the holding tank. I know you want to power blast it to the tank, but I have another suggestion. Go vertical as soon as you can after the head discharge and get the hose as high as you can so you won't have any back flow when you are heeled over w/ a full tank. Put a vented loop at the highest location then run the hose down the the tank w/ at least a 1/4 in per foot slope, greater the slope the better. Now gravity is doing most of the work for you and you don't have to use as much flushing water to get the effluent into the tank. As for sanitation hose, the white, flexible, pvc sanitation hose is pretty good. Peggy Hall can give you the exact manufactures name. Boat US and West Marine sell the stuff. BTW if you ever have a chance to meet Peggy Hall in person, DO IT!! Wonderful person and an encyclopedia of information. Have fun!!
My concern is the 11' of slow rise to the holding tank. That would be a lot of flushing water( 1 gal to be exact) to make sure your line is devoid of "stuff" and made it to the holding tank. I know you want to power blast it to the tank, but I have another suggestion. Go vertical as soon as you can after the head discharge and get the hose as high as you can so you won't have any back flow when you are heeled over w/ a full tank. Put a vented loop at the highest location then run the hose down the the tank w/ at least a 1/4 in per foot slope, greater the slope the better. Now gravity is doing most of the work for you and you don't have to use as much flushing water to get the effluent into the tank. As for sanitation hose, the white, flexible, pvc sanitation hose is pretty good. Peggy Hall can give you the exact manufactures name. Boat US and West Marine sell the stuff. BTW if you ever have a chance to meet Peggy Hall in person, DO IT!! Wonderful person and an encyclopedia of information. Have fun!!
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Bill Meyer
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Bill Meyer
Thanks to Peggy Hall!
Thank you, Peggy, for your thorough reply. Because of the custom size required, I am re-considering the tank material and may use fiberglass in place of stainless steel. I might have to draw on your experience down the road. Thanks for your past advice. Bill
Thank you, Peggy, for your thorough reply. Because of the custom size required, I am re-considering the tank material and may use fiberglass in place of stainless steel. I might have to draw on your experience down the road. Thanks for your past advice. Bill
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
We offer more than 300 shapes and sizes, Bill...
..we should be able to supply a tank that will fit your space. Our tank catalog is on the Raritan Engineering website (www.raritaneng.com)...or e-mail me your snail address and I'll send you one.
..we should be able to supply a tank that will fit your space. Our tank catalog is on the Raritan Engineering website (www.raritaneng.com)...or e-mail me your snail address and I'll send you one.
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